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Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:22:30 PM   
sir1969


Posts: 20
Joined: 12/19/2008
Status: offline 		Just curious about something.  Wife and I have been searching for our sub for 2+ years now, no luck.  Mostly run into fakes or when we do communicate for a while, they'll just up and vanish.  Maybe just our bad luck as some people on here are actually finding what they seek - at least that is what I wish to believe .

My question though is more about what some subs/slaves put in their profiles.  Often, many will claim they are well trained by such and such a dom/domme, etc.  As if that is a strong selling point.
But I'm wondering if that is actually a good thing.  Just because they are "trained" doesn't mean they would be a good sub/slave for me - I have very particular tastes and rules, etc.  It almost seems it would be better to find someone with little or no training.  Maybe just enough experience to know they want more.

Thoughts?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:24:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		As long as they have the key traits "willing to learn more" and "adaptability," coming fully equipped can only be a positive thing for everyone.

The fact is, by the time any of us are 16 we've had 90% of the training we'll ever employ in our lives. Trying to find someone "untrained" just makes you look like a troll feasting on newbies.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 6/8/2010 9:25:01 PM >

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:31:04 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I find that well trained slaves and especially those Gorean trained are easy to handle because there often needs only small modifications on how they do things. I also find that by running them through their paces you can see what they know and access the level to which they have been trained. This gives you a platform from which to formulate the additional training. I would also comment that a smart Dominant is also open to learning new things and thus may be well surprised when a slave shows them something she is trained in which was nt in the owner's agenda or even known about. The way I operate, this testing and evaluation even prior to offering the Probationary Collar. better to know these things first and better to know if the said slave is able to make adjustments and learn new ways or techniques. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:37:28 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I have found that water seeks it's own level. If you are shit you seem to be able to tolerate shit. What is one's person success in finding another would be someone else's Hell.

I have found that anything Gorean sucks ass.

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:40:00 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		The word "trained" in slave profiles is subjective. It really depends upon the Owner and the needs. Yes, i was trained by my ex Master, but i was trained for his needs - which may be entirely different from your needs. So in that case, as LuckyAlbatross says, the slave being willing and able to learn more is the key.

There is basic "slave training" in things like serving drinks, kneeling for guests, sexual service, etc. etc. that is accepted as universal slave skills for various slave positions. Personal assistant, private secretary, and so on. Usually a slave goes to a trainer to learn such skills - and usually you won't find those slaves on CollarMe, either.

On the whole though, when a slave says she's "trained" you can just read it as she's "experienced" - you will always need to teach her your specific needs and requirements. Slaves often just put that on their profiles to show that they're not total newbies - take it as you will.

Good luck to you!

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:45:53 PM   
sir1969


Posts: 20
Joined: 12/19/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks LuckyAlbatross.  I think everyone should be willing to learn more and be adaptable whether sub,slave, or dom.  I have learned a lot from subs I've met.  Though I disagree with the 90% training bit (or maybe I'm just thinking of things way different than what you are referring to).

IronBear, thanks for the insightful response.  A sub we met last fall helped me learn a little rope bondage, which I knew nothing about at the time.  It worked out well - though my thing is still leather & chain.  :)

I was just curious about this idea of being already trained because so many state it in such a way that it implies they already know everything.

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Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 9:56:59 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		If they do indeed think or act like they know it all, your job as a Master if you should take it, is to dispel this attitude. I find being bound in chains and scrubbing a disused toilet has merit as does a cane or crop wielded well. After all the bondage is one thing but you and you alone need to instil the Discipline.


< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/8/2010 9:58:01 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 10:16:32 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Trained or not - the most important quality is to be motivated.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sir1969

Just curious about something.  Wife and I have been searching for our sub for 2+ years now, no luck.  Mostly run into fakes or when we do communicate for a while, they'll just up and vanish.  Maybe just our bad luck as some people on here are actually finding what they seek - at least that is what I wish to believe .

My question though is more about what some subs/slaves put in their profiles.  Often, many will claim they are well trained by such and such a dom/domme, etc.  As if that is a strong selling point.
But I'm wondering if that is actually a good thing.  Just because they are "trained" doesn't mean they would be a good sub/slave for me - I have very particular tastes and rules, etc.  It almost seems it would be better to find someone with little or no training.  Maybe just enough experience to know they want more.

Thoughts?



(in reply to sir1969)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 10:29:03 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I have found that anything Gorean sucks ass.

Sir, i find that comment rude.

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

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Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 10:53:38 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I have found that anything Gorean sucks ass.

Sir, i find that comment rude.


I agree lass it is crude, rude and insulting which is all I have come to expect from this person which is why I never read anything he posts. Enough people seem to like him so he posts as he wants and other find it amusing. I just ignore and read more enjoyable posts by enjoyable people. BTW, occasionally you are permitted to spell Sir and Cur if the occasion warrants it. (old army saying).


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 10:55:23 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sir1969

Just curious about something.  Wife and I have been searching for our sub for 2+ years now, no luck.  Mostly run into fakes or when we do communicate for a while, they'll just up and vanish.  Maybe just our bad luck as some people on here are actually finding what they seek - at least that is what I wish to believe .

My question though is more about what some subs/slaves put in their profiles.  Often, many will claim they are well trained by such and such a dom/domme, etc.  As if that is a strong selling point.
But I'm wondering if that is actually a good thing.  Just because they are "trained" doesn't mean they would be a good sub/slave for me - I have very particular tastes and rules, etc.  It almost seems it would be better to find someone with little or no training.  Maybe just enough experience to know they want more.

Thoughts?



Yanno I get so tired of ppl claiming "fakes" when ppl just up and vanish.. I hear quite a few hook up on CM... so dude maybe just maybe it's YOU

The ppl I talk on here are "real". I may agree to disagree with them however ive been talking to them for a couple years.

BadOne

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 10:59:49 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		~FR~

Of course there are also those subs who don't like the term 'trained' and won't use it at all

I have had several D/s relationships and in each relationship I found out what pleased my partner and did it. I wasn't trained, it was just something I did because I liked to please him.

One thing I have found is that every partner was different, and liked things done in different ways. So the start of every relationship meant I had to find out what pleased my partner...a part of the relationship I really enjoyed. And the fact that I've had a few relationships means I know the kinds of things to look for...so maybe having an experienced sub would actually be a good thing!

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/8/2010 11:15:32 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		all the the subs who came to me with past experience with another Mistress or Master did not use the word train either. They simply said "I've served others."

The reason I like a sub/slave who's had experience with another person first--is that they know they are happy as slave/sub, even if their weren't particularly happy with a past master/mistress. One of the biggest difficulties I find with considering a slave/sub with no experience is just that: no experience. They don't know for sure--is this me? They don't know the difference between slave or sub. They aren't clear about their limits--actually they have no idea where their limits are or how much this or that they can accept. In every area of bdms and d/s, you are faced with blanks. It's not easy to help the new person fill in all those blanks while also training them how to please you.

My hat's off to those who do well with this. I already know I am not well-suited to do it, having given it a few tries. You have the added complexity of having a second person in the household whom you also must be mindful of--once you add a 3rd person, there's always adjustments that occur in the first relationship. Nearly always at least a modicum of the green eye.

Have the questions ready to ask, the general requirements formulated and see if the person you interview, get to know, suits your household. Do you really like her, will you be happy to have her with you? These are the most important things to learn. For the time being, I'd wouldn't try someone with little to no experience in bdsm or d/s.

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 1:03:05 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		If a woman with a slave mindset comes to these boards, she can gain an awful lot of knowledge in a very short period of time about whats to be expected by the majority of dominants. I believe there are many people that come to boards like this, to feel and taste a submission that doesn't and can't happen in her normal everyday life because of other commitments such as a husband and family. On here she can touch her dream and reach inwardly to that dark submissive place that is otherwise so well hidden. Like a good choreographer, she can stage something that is convincingly real to her audience. Disappearing acts often disappear when things start getting a little too serious.
Personally I prefer someone with some experience because I can't be bothered with the 'frenzy' head space that often goes on with a complete newbie. If someone tells me they have been highly trained, I really do take it with a pinch of salt because each new relationship is a fresh start and new beginnings. I always say, my only expectations at this stage, is to see how compatible we are and compatibility starts with personality and not how you salute or address me. All of that comes later if it pans out.


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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 3:30:29 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I do agree with that, if someone says to me they are experienced, I'll want to know how much experience and in what areas. If she says she served someone I know or know of I will have some idea what she may be like and I can usually check anyway. Were she to tell me she is Gorean Trained then in general terms I know precisely what her training will have included. The sale can be said when someone says they are trained or experienced in serving as a Butler or a ladies maid or for that matter claims to be trained in "Silver Service" I know the standards required and what is expected. When it comes to more general domestic service areas she will need me to show her the ropes. There are protocols and timing to be considered. there is a tag line I use occasionally shameless pinched from an American lady friend: "Warning: the surgeon general has determined that bothering me before my first cup of coffee is hazardous to your health". She will need to understand that this is a very literal warning  and to be taken seriously and thus she will; need to ensure I have my two short black peculated coffees ere I deal; with home, business matters or humans.  However when it comes to BDSM, I am the only one who can teach, coach and guide a girl as to how I want things done and and what I like. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 4:24:44 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The fact is, by the time any of us are 16 we've had 90% of the training we'll ever employ in our lives.



That's a huge point, in my opinion. 

OP,
First, as to you and your partner not finding a third...not unusual.  It's good to remember regardless of the labels we use, you're still trying to develop a relationship with another individual.  Vanishing doesn't make a person "fake", it makes them not interested for whatever reason/s.

As for you question on "training", I believe there are certain skills anyone can bring to the table.  Being able to perform those skills, service, learned from past relationships with a present partner are only an asset.  Fine tunning those skills to please you, the current owner, is just personalizing the service.
I forget who started the thread here but there was one that spoke of a sub/slave having a resume to present to a perspective owner/partner. You could do a search for that and it might give you some insight.

I guess it all comes down to what you define as necessary training/skills/experience.

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 4:36:20 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sir1969

Just curious about something.  Wife and I have been searching for our sub for 2+ years now, no luck.  Mostly run into fakes or when we do communicate for a while, they'll just up and vanish.  Maybe just our bad luck as some people on here are actually finding what they seek - at least that is what I wish to believe .

My question though is more about what some subs/slaves put in their profiles.  Often, many will claim they are well trained by such and such a dom/domme, etc.  As if that is a strong selling point.
But I'm wondering if that is actually a good thing.  Just because they are "trained" doesn't mean they would be a good sub/slave for me - I have very particular tastes and rules, etc.  It almost seems it would be better to find someone with little or no training.  Maybe just enough experience to know they want more.

Thoughts?


I think subs saying they're "trained" is just a way of saying they're not naive or novices etc.

Personally, I'd much prefer novice to experienced (not that I'd exclude the latter) because I don't regard "untrained" as being a burden or drawback, as many a sub seems to.... And frankly, there's something beguiling in training a hesitant newbie sub terrified of disappointing, even if she doesn't know that's practically impossible to do. But I'm not gonna tell her that; least, not at the time....

You're right; a sub with 20yrs of training still isn't gonna know what *I* desire or expect of her. Yep, that previous experience means she'll learn and adapt faster - it's just that I'm not in any hurry for her to know it all; that "training" is at least as enjoyable (to me) as trained. If I've gotta be somewhere a hundred miles or more away, I'm still gonna enjoy the view getting there....

Focus.

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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 4:51:01 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I agree with the 90%. Not in terms of things they know how to do but re viewpoints, opinions, morals and ethics. And that matters more to me than his favorite meal. Because if you know how to learn then it doesn't matter if you've never cooked chicken cacciatore before, you can learn how.

Training is just learning specific stuff. Like how he likes his tea which is not the same as how I like mine. But really, it took making it two or three times before I was fully trained in tea making for him. Some things are faster to learn than others but a few repetitions plus being able to check the directions should be enough. What's important here is how she learns. Does she do better to have written directions or a picture? People learn differently and the trainer ought to be able to figure this out and adapt the teaching to the specific learning style. Beating me for not remembering stuff I'm told verbally doesn't work nearly as well as telling me to get a piece of paper and a pen. Because I need directions to be written.

Iron Bear talks about silver service, which isn't the same as how I know to do it. But having it written down would solve the training quickly as long as he wouldn't miss the opportunity to cane her during the learning process.


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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 5:22:18 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sir1969

My question though is more about what some subs/slaves put in their profiles.  Often, many will claim they are well trained by such and such a dom/domme, etc.  As if that is a strong selling point.


When I utilize the word training I'm speaking of specific experiences that provided credentials or tools I can utilize on the kneel. I don't view this in the same manner as instruction, which one might receive from a dominant. As such, when I indicate I have culinary training it means I have documentation and an industry specific level of competency that one can reference for verification purposes. I would not consider the same if that came by way of the dominant unless he happened to be Thomas Keller. One isn't better than the other, but I believe they convey very different things.

The first approach applies a standardized method of instruction that can be customized to the preferences of the dominant. The second provides the same with the customization built in. How far it deviates from the standard depends on the individual. When I wish to obtain a skill I go to a reputable source. It gives the beneficiary a reference point when questions arise.

~porcelaine


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RE: Well trained sub/slave... - 6/9/2010 6:13:04 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		I thought you were the Great Earthly Ambassador to Gor or some such. Did a sleen eat your title?

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Profile   Post #: 20
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