RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom

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WyldHrt -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:05:10 PM)
quote: But..... I'm still a stubborn son of a bitch! Which is why I am not listening to your poopy alternative definition, Wildly Heartedness. Epic fail in the "street smarts" dept, RM [:D] As you can see, OP, street smarts is not seen as a negative thing by many, and I doubt by most.

juliaoceania -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:06:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania That is not what street smarts means... it is another way of saying "cosmopolitan" or "worldly"... and there is nothing negative about it I have never heard those two terms in relationship to street smarts. To me, it means the having the ability to survive in an unsavory environment.. not negative, I do agree with you on that, but not cosmopolitan or wordly either. Himself grew up in the Bronx, New York.. he definitely has street smarts in addition to his book smarts. He's aware of his immediate environment and regardless of where we are, he takes the street side and keeps me to the building side when walking. He sits with his back to a wall if possible in restaurants facing the front door and things of that nature. He is somewhat wordly due to our extensive travel, but I do believe that's an entirely different concept than street smarts. Cosmopolitan quote: a sophisticated person who has travelled in many countries of worldwide scope or applicability; "an issue of cosmopolitan import"; "the shrewdest political and ecumenical comment of our time"- Christopher Morley; "universal experience" Someone experienced in the ways of the world and who is well traveled, and when I think of someone like this I think of someone who can survive "streets" on a global scale Worldly quote: worldliness - sophistication: the quality or character of being intellectually sophisticated and worldly through cultivation or experience or disillusionment worldliness - The quality of being worldly; familiarity with the ways of the world I think of a worldly person as being even more relevant to street smart than cosmopolitan... knowing how the world works is the epitome of "street smart" Just me, etc

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:10:39 PM)
quote: I prefer this one, RM: street smart 408 up, 111 down A person who has alot of common sense and knows what's going on in the world. This person knows what every type of person has to deal with daily and understands all groups of people and how to act around them. This person also knows all the current shit going on in the streets and the ghetto and everywhere else and knows how to make his own right decisions, knows how to deal with different situations and has his own independant state of mind. A street smart person isn't stubborn and actually listens to shit and understands shit. Street smarts is a very useful trait. However in order to quote: know all the current shit going on in the streets and the ghetto and everywhere else you must have some experience with ghettos and such shit that is going on there. And if you have such experience it means that you were attracted to such way of living (or forced to deal with it) and in constant contact with it, which speaks a lot about someone's character (if they were attracted to it) or background (if they were forced to deal with it) There are people who aren't street smart simply because they aren't attracted to and haven't dealt with ghettos, criminals, etc. Instead they were attracted to some other things.

WyldHrt -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:15:04 PM)
Whatever, SN. How about this- in the context it is being used in this thread, street smarts refers to common sense, life experience, and the ability to deal with difficult situations. That said, I will take someone who is street smart over book smart any day. I cannot even tell you how many of the scam vics I counseled were very highly educated..... and complete numpties when it came to dealing with the real world.

juliaoceania -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:16:58 PM)
quote: you must have some experience with ghettos and such shit that is going on there. And if you have such experience it means that you were attracted to such way of living (or forced to deal with it) and in constant contact with it, which speaks a lot about someone's character (if they were attracted to it) or background (if they were forced to deal with it) There are people who aren't street smart simply because they aren't attracted to and haven't dealt with ghettos, criminals, etc. Instead they were attracted to some other things. At my age anyone who did not have much street smarts would get dismissed as naive, sheltered and generally ill educated... And dude, anyone who grows up in a sizable city better be street smart or expect to get run over in life....

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:21:15 PM)
quote: in the context it is being used in this thread, street smarts refers to common sense, life experience, and the ability to deal with difficult situations. OK, for the sake of conversation I accept your definition. quote: That said, I will take someone who is street smart over book smart any day. Why do you think that one excludes the other? One can be book smart AND street smart AND simply smart, in general, all at the same time. I could bet that there is positive correlation between book smarts and street smarts, not negative one. And yet there is another trait - general intelligence - which doesn't have anything to do with neither street smarts nor book smarts. It is simply the ability to learn fast new concepts and to solve new problems in a creative and efficient way and to adapt to novel situations. I really think that someone with high natural intelligence will be both book smart and street smart, unless he lived in total isolation.

RedMagic1 -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:22:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot And if you have such experience it means that you were attracted to such way of living (or forced to deal with it) and in constant contact with it, which speaks a lot about someone's character (if they were attracted to it) or background (if they were forced to deal with it) Pardon me? Are you attacking my character because I copypasted a term definition onto your thread? I do personally know ex-convicts, prostitutes and people who never read books written by dead people. So what exactly are you saying here?

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:26:26 PM)
quote: Pardon me? Are you attacking my character because I copypasted a term definition onto your thread? I do personally know ex-convicts, prostitutes and people who never read books written by dead people. So what exactly are you saying here? I also know some of such people. Most of people do. But if someone prefers to be in such company, this is a different story.

WyldHrt -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:27:47 PM)
quote: Why do you think that one excludes the other? People can be book smart AND street smart AND simply smart, in general. I could bet that there is positive correlation between book smarts and street smarts, not negative one. Where did I say that they were mutually exclusive? I didn't, so please don't put words in my mouth. quote: I really think that someone with high natural intelligence will be both book smart and street smart, unless he lived in total isolation. Often wrong. There are folks with plenty of street smarts who either didn't have the opportunity or the inclination to go to university. There are people who spend their entire adult lives in the cloistered hallows of academia and possess and amazing lack of common sense (ie. the folks I mentioned in my last post) because they have never had to deal with the real world outside of their sheltered existence.

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:38:41 PM)
quote: Often wrong. There are folks with plenty of street smarts who either didn't have the opportunity or the inclination to go to university. There are people who spend their entire adult lives in the cloistered hallows of academia and possess and amazing lack of common sense (ie. the folks I mentioned in my last post) because they have never had to deal with the real world outside of their sheltered existence. Why do you speak about people in academia in such a derogatory tone? I'll tell you one thing - in my high school (which was very demanding and high-quality school, one of the best high schools in Bosnia), all the best students, with A grades were usually very street smart and they also had girlfriends and boyfriends, went to nightclubs and to soccer games, drunk a lot of alcohol sometimes (sometimes to the point of being wasted), and now, in college they have even more social activities, they are active in student organizations, they usually travel to different countries as part of student exchange programs, and they do all the other normal and crazy stuff all the other people do. You assume that being educated and book smart = asocial weirdo nerd. Sometimes yes, but in most cases no. And hey, most of the greatest novelists were EXTREMELY street smart, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to realistically depict their characters and other stuff in their novels. But they were also EXTREMELY book smart, and most of the greatest novels give us both realistic depiction of simple life as well as A LOT of philosophical and intellectually engaging stuff. Try some Dostoevsky.

BitaTruble -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:43:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Someone experienced in the ways of the world and who is well traveled, and when I think of someone like this I think of someone who can survive "streets" on a global scale. Yet someone can be street smart who has never traveled at all and who knows nothing of the world other than how to survive on the streets. quote: I think of a worldly person as being even more relevant to street smart than cosmopolitan... knowing how the world works is the epitome of "street smart" Just me, etc And one can be street smart without a lick of sophistication or being intellectually sophisticated. I consider myself worldly and also cosmo.. but not street smart. Being familiar with your own mean streets and being street smart doesn't mean that you have any familiarity with the ways of the world in general. Knowing how the world works doesn't mean a whole lot.. knowing how the streets work which is a world unto itself is much more accurate. Like you.. just me, etc. :D

WyldHrt -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:48:42 PM)
quote: Why do you speak about people in academia in such a derogatory tone? I didn't say all people in academia were this way, or even that most are. I said there are people in academia that are this way, and that is true. Since you perved my profile, you should know that I graduated uni. I'm speaking from personal experience. quote: I'll tell you one thing - in my high school (which was very demanding and high-quality school, one of the best high schools in Bosnia), all the best students, with A grades were usually very street smart and they also had girlfriends and boyfriends, went to nightclubs and to soccer games, drunk a lot of alcohol sometimes (sometimes to the point of being wasted), and now, in college they have even more social activities, they are active in student organizations, they usually travel to different countries as part of student exchange programs, and they do all the other normal and crazy stuff all the other people do. Was there a point to all that? quote: You assume that being educated and book smart = asocial weirdo nerd. Hardly. You jumped to a conclusion. quote: And hey, most of the greatest novelists were EXTREMELY street smart, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to realistically depict their characters and other stuff in their novels. But they were also EXTREMELY book smart, and most of the greatest novels give us both realist depiction of simple life as well as A LOT of philosophical and intellectually engaging stuff. Try some Dostoevsky. You keep defending against an accusation I never made. That said, being a great novelist does not automatically mean one is street smart. Plenty of novelists are awesome researchers, empathetic, and imaginative. Depending on talent, that can be enough. ETA- and coming from someone who made some fairly snotty remarks about people who are street smart, your indignation over my post was hilarious.

porcelaine -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 7:56:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot When it comes to me personally, I could in theory be a slave only to someone who is clearly smarter and wiser than I am. This includes higher IQ, more education (not necessarily more formal education, just being more knowledgeable than me on most subjects) , more life experience and greater wisdom than my own. I agree. He must outpace me. Otherwise we won't work. I enjoy being in the presence of a man that is more adept than myself. I'm a sponge and.I learn a great deal. quote: To sum up, I would allow a mistress to mold me, to change me, even to instill completely new personality in me, but only if I was 100% sure that she is smarter, wiser, more intelligent and more knowledgeable than me, AND if I felt that she is highly ethical and adheres strictly to her moral values which would have to be compatible with my own moral values. In the simplest of terms I defer to him because I believe his way is superior to my own. It is not insult to my intelligence or capabilities. But merely how I view things from the kneel. quote: In the process of changing me and molding me she would have to convince me and to prove that she is right and that I am wrong. He convinced me the day I asked to be his. That's why we take our time becoming acquainted and learning one another. It allows me to have a clear idea of who I'm serving. Not the role but the man in himself. It's all about him. quote: In first years of relationship I would never accept to change any of my preferences, beliefs, opinions etc, without substantial proofs and argumentation that she would offer and that would convince me that she is indeed right. One of the most important things I've learned is regarding cadence. Good things take time to develop. The first few years are important and I expect it will entail a period of adjustment for us both. Considering the dynamic that I prefer it is probable that we'll take a couple of years before anything is solidified. Ownership is serious and something one shouldn't undertake lightly. Particularly 24/7 situations. Given the gravity of what's involved it would be unrealistic of me to expect that changes will never occur. Living as his requires many adjustments and those don't happen overnight. I expect some growing pains but he's worth it in my opinion. What I'm unwilling to do is provide him with a list of areas that are untouchable. By the time we the point of full ownership and reside under the same roof those things should be ironed out. That isn't to say that when he shares his ideas I won't express where our opinions differ, however, in the end his word is final and that is the line I adhere to as his. Although it may seem strange in your mind I am able to do so because he provides consistent leadership that I can trust without doubts or fears of incompetency hindering my steps. I know I'm in good hands. quote: However, after few years, if she proved enough times that she knows better, and that her opinions are better than mine, I would maybe enter the phase in which I would simply accept whatever she suggests without even questioning it. This would be the phase of "mindless" obedience and acceptance and total slavery - but this would be possible if and only if she proved enough times that she is indeed smarter and wiser than me and that her decisions and opinions are usually better than mine. If he wasn't smarter I'd have never said yes. That part has already been decided. The idea of withholding my obedience from him is unthinkable. It would cause both parties much hardship and displeasure. If I take it outside of the context of the exchange and bring it down the familiar it comes back to pleasing my Man. If I have zero desire to do that I'd have to seriously question why we're involved. ~porcelaine

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 8:09:44 PM)
OK, I'll try to go back to the beginning of this debate about street smarts. Someone mentioned that they would always prefer someone street smart instead of book smart.đ I said that for me personally that wouldn't be the case, and I'll try to explain. First thing, when is street smartness really needed? When you live in a dangerous environment, when you have to deal with shady or dangerous people, or when you engage in high risk business which is in some way connected to the crime and the underground. If I live in a safe environment and if I visit relatively safe places and have a job that is not connected to the underground then I simply don't need street smarts. I do not plan to live in ghetto or to be friends with criminals. Even without street smarts I will be able to deal safely with them if the need arises. I just have to be cautious, to try to avoid trouble and not to believe in everyone's bullshit. This doesn't require a lot of street smarts, it requires just intelligence and common sense. And then, there are a lot of people who have a great deal of common sense and are very practical and creative in dealing with problems and also empathetic and know how to avoid trouble, even if they are not street smart. I am 23, and I visited lots of places and I was friend with many different types of people. I almost never engaged in fights and I am not a tough guy. I am not street smart in classical sense, but I don't need it. And I dealt with all kinds of situations without bad consequences. Being street smart is ability to efficiently engage in trouble and deal with it on the streets. I am not very good at it. But at the same time I safely roam these very same streets, but I have the ability to AVOID the trouble and I always prefer it. I don't want to get into trouble with gangs and criminals, I simply avoid it and I have very relaxed and take-it-easy approach with them. I never insult them, never initiate trouble on my own, and if trouble arises I try to negotiate, and to avoid it in a civilized manner. So, I need to have some simple common sense, and I'd like my partner to have common sense as well. But I don't need street smarts. Most people with book smarts have some essential common sense that allows them to avoid the trouble. Most people with highly developed street smarts, on the other hand, aren't very inclined to intellectual discussions and to other things. Street smart can be their only and most valuable asset and they take pride in it, but they can in some cases be extremely lacking in some other areas. So, I'd like my partner to be intelligent, practical, to have real life wisdom that can be applied in long term, to have positive life philosophy and sophistication, and a reasonable amount of common sense. However, they don't have to be exceptionally street smart. Being VERY street smart could even make a negative impression on me, and not positive one, because I would assume they spent lots of times in gangs, ghettos, dealing with criminals and engaging in other sorts of questionable activities.

porcelaine -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 8:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Wow, porcelaine, again you think almost the same as I do, I'm glad that I can find some like minded people!!! There was a poll taken on another site in relation to this subject. The findings might surprise you. It was nearly evenly split amongst people that identified themselves as having an M/s or O/p relationship. 49% from both groups believed the dominant was more adept at making relationship decisions than the slave. 50% did not. In terms of the question I answered yes. Not because I'm less intelligent. But my selfish interests might compel me to take a different route. I count on him to do the right thing when all else fails. ~porcelaine

juliaoceania -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 8:56:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Someone experienced in the ways of the world and who is well traveled, and when I think of someone like this I think of someone who can survive "streets" on a global scale. Yet someone can be street smart who has never traveled at all and who knows nothing of the world other than how to survive on the streets. quote: I think of a worldly person as being even more relevant to street smart than cosmopolitan... knowing how the world works is the epitome of "street smart" Just me, etc And one can be street smart without a lick of sophistication or being intellectually sophisticated. I consider myself worldly and also cosmo.. but not street smart. Being familiar with your own mean streets and being street smart doesn't mean that you have any familiarity with the ways of the world in general. Knowing how the world works doesn't mean a whole lot.. knowing how the streets work which is a world unto itself is much more accurate. Like you.. just me, etc. :D I do not equate being educated with the ability to adjust to strange circumstances and to travel in a way that is "street smart". To me, and the way I was raised, street smart is something that city folk were, and something I was not...because I was not citified. Being street smart is not consorting with the dredges of society as SN would state, it is also avoiding those situations because you know how to spot em. It is the innate intuition to spot a bad situation that could lead to your purse being snatched, etc. It is something that cosmopolitan people have because they travel in unfamiliar circumstances (or they should have it). Being from a teensy weensy town (actually more of a village) I had zero street smarts, had to learn them on the fly, and now I am worldly, cosmopolitan, and this is because I have some street smarts. I can find my way in any urban environment and keep myself from being pick pocketed, abducted, and know how to spot a drug/crime infested area... I also know how to act if I get lost in one. Just me, etc

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 9:04:38 PM)
quote: Being from a teensy weensy town (actually more of a village) I had zero street smarts, had to learn them on the fly, and now I am worldly, cosmopolitan, and this is because I have some street smarts. I can find my way in any urban environment and keep myself from being pick pocketed, abducted, and know how to spot a drug/crime infested area... I also know how to act if I get lost in one. Just me, etc I am from the city of 250,000 people and I have all of these abilities and more, but I don't consider myself particularly street smart. I have some street smarts, but not so much to be able to actively engage in serious trouble, I am more inclined to efficiently discovering and avoiding trouble.

WyldHrt -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 9:08:42 PM)
quote: Someone mentioned that they would always prefer someone street smart instead of book smart. If it had to be one or the other, I would, too. quote: First thing, when is street smartness really needed? When you live in a dangerous environment, when you have to deal with shady or dangerous people, or when you engage in high risk business which is in some way connected to the crime and the underground. If I live in a safe environment and if I visit relatively safe places and have a job that is not connected to the underground then I simply don't need street smarts. I do not plan to live in ghetto or to be friends with criminals. Even without street smarts I will be able to deal safely with them if the need arises. I just have to be cautious, to try to avoid trouble and not to believe in everyone's bullshit. This doesn't require a lot of street smarts, it requires just intelligence and common sense. And then, there are a lot of people who have a great deal of common sense and are very practical and creative in dealing with problems and also empathetic and know how to avoid trouble, even if they are not street smart. I am 23, and I visited lots of places and I was friend with many different types of people. I almost never engaged in fights and I am not a tough guy. I am not street smart in classical sense, but I don't need it. And I dealt with all kinds of situations without bad consequences. Being street smart is ability to efficiently engage in trouble and deal with it on the streets. I am not very good at it. But at the same time I safely roam these very same streets, but I have the ability to AVOID the trouble and I always prefer it. I don't want to get into trouble with gangs and criminals, I simply avoid it and I have very relaxed and take-it-easy approach with them. I never insult them, never initiate trouble on my own, and if trouble arises I try to negotiate, and to avoid it in a civilized manner. So, I need to have some simple common sense, and I'd like my partner to have common sense as well. But I don't need street smarts. There you go, back to street smarts = ghetto and criminal activity. That's obviously how you feel, which negates any attempt at further discussion. My definition, and that of many others, has little to do with criminals and ghettos beyond one being able to handle themselves in certain situations and awareness of one's environment and the people therein. I have no desire to attempt a discussion of a term with someone when a common definition of said term has not been reached. Doing so is as useless as discussing fruit when I'm talking about a tomato and you are talking about an orange. quote: Most people with book smarts have some essential common sense that allows them to avoid the trouble. Depends on the person, and common sense is no guarantee that you can avoid "the trouble", whatever it may be. quote: Most people with highly developed street smarts, on the other hand, aren't very inclined to intellectual discussions and to other things. Street smart can be their only and most valuable asset and they take pride in it, but they can in some cases be extremely lacking in some other areas. Your intellectual snobbery is showing... in spades. quote: So, I'd like my partner to be intelligent, practical, to have real life wisdom that can be applied in long term, to have positive life philosophy and sophistication, and a reasonable amount of common sense. However, they don't have to be exceptionally street smart. Good, now get out from behind the computer and find her. quote: Being VERY street smart could even make a negative impression on me, and not positive one, because I would assume they spent lots of times in gangs, ghettos, dealing with criminals and engaging in other sorts of questionable activities. You would assume, something you do very well.

juliaoceania -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 9:12:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot quote: Being from a teensy weensy town (actually more of a village) I had zero street smarts, had to learn them on the fly, and now I am worldly, cosmopolitan, and this is because I have some street smarts. I can find my way in any urban environment and keep myself from being pick pocketed, abducted, and know how to spot a drug/crime infested area... I also know how to act if I get lost in one. Just me, etc I am from the city of 250,000 people and I have all of these abilities and more, but I don't consider myself particularly street smart. I have some street smarts, but not so much to be able to actively engage in serious trouble, I am more inclined to efficiently discovering and avoiding trouble. If you know how to conduct yourself on the street, know the things to watch for that are hazardous in a city environment, know how to get about and avoid trouble... even knowing how certain types of people who could cause you trouble act, well you are indeed street smart... I live in a city of half a million people, 20 miles away from a city with millions and millions of people. I take buses and trains most places. It is in my interest to know what neighborhoods to avoid and what time. It is in my interest to know what certain tats mean, it is in my interest to know what certain fashion trends mean, it is in my interest to know what gang signs are. Since it is my self interest to know these things, I know them. I live in the touristy upscale area of my city next to the ocean, but I also live a few blocks away from the homeless that congregate near city hall. It is also in my interest to know how to deal with these people.... The above makes me street smart. It also makes me observant. I had better be since my job is to observe and understand subcultures... If you have the skills to keep alive in a gang infested city, as most cosmopolitan cities are these days (to some degree), then you are street smart. If you have the sense to know how to get from point a to point b in a glass jungle without feeling lost, well you are street smart... it has nothing to do with being around criminals. There are actually classes about this all over the LA area

SocratesNot -> RE: M/s and IQ and wisdom (6/10/2010 9:22:53 PM)
quote: If you know how to conduct yourself on the street, know the things to watch for that are hazardous in a city environment, know how to get about and avoid trouble... even knowing how certain types of people who could cause you trouble act, well you are indeed street smart... I live in a city of half a million people, 20 miles away from a city with millions and millions of people. I take buses and trains most places. It is in my interest to know what neighborhoods to avoid and what time. It is in my interest to know what certain tats mean, it is in my interest to know what certain fashion trends mean, it is in my interest to know what gang signs are. Since it is my self interest to know these things, I know them. I live in the touristy upscale area of my city next to the ocean, but I also live a few blocks away from the homeless that congregate near city hall. It is also in my interest to know how to deal with these people.... The above makes me street smart. It also makes me observant. I had better be since my job is to observe and understand subcultures... If you have the skills to keep alive in a gang infested city, as most cosmopolitan cities are these days (to some degree), then you are street smart. If you have the sense to know how to get from point a to point b in a glass jungle without feeling lost, well you are street smart... it has nothing to do with being around criminals. There are actually classes about this all over the LA area Actually, maybe I am street smart for my city, but not for cities like LA. My city is relatively safe and there is not much serious street crime here. But, again, I'm not sure why would street smarts be so important in a relationship? The relationship is about dynamics between two people, not about avoiding gangs. If you live in a relatively safe city and don't engage very much with gangs and subcultures, why would you need a lot of street smarts? quote: There are actually classes about this all over the LA area Which means that street smarts is a relatively easy skill that can be learned if needed. This is not a crucial aspect of someone's personality that I would be looking for in my partner. You can learn street smarts in one year or less in you take classes or live in such environment where this is needed. However, natural intelligence can not be changed much during the lifetime and can't be learned. Also education, wisdom and sophistication takes years and decades to develop.

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