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RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 11:35:24 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Jeff, that was my experience with surrender as well, although I don't feel I have a submissive personality in general. It very much went to the core of who I am. Obedience is usually a lot easier and more superficial than surrender, in my experience.

Icarys, my actions did align with my words, and I obeyed them for 3 years and 1 year, respectively. I wanted to be useful, even in areas that weren't "hot." Anyway, I'm probably not compatible with a lot of the people here, and sometimes, it does come down to basic definition of terms. I think it more frequently comes down to "can I realistically comply with this individual person's expectations, day in and day out?" When you get down to the nitty-gritty of how submission, surrender, yielding, and vulnerability come up in the course of a relationship, how the philosophy is put into action, that is where small differences are magnified.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 11:38:28 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Icarys, in my last two relationships (3 years as a submissive, 1 year as a slave), I was able to let go and trust and do activities that scared me, that I didn't like or want to do, or that I had previously had difficulty with, fairly early on. There wasn't any struggle against him, only sometimes against myself. Occasionally I needed baby steps, say two or three tries over time before I was able to get where he wanted me to go. To some extent, I did have to be vulnerable and willing to surrender up-front, but it very much was inspired by my interaction with them as specific people. I wasn't actively seeking someone to surrender to, though, I was open to a lot of different possibilities, depending on the interaction with the specific person. I'm one of those "dirty switches" according to your post on page 1, though.


this was an early glitch for me - and maybe this is what icarys is talking about a little, but it took me a while to realise that it wasnt so much what the Dominant did to get me to open up and let go it was more to do with me allowing myself to let go.  i think there is a priod when a sub will think that it is largely the job of the Dominant to engender this letting go and to some extent it is, but it also has to come from within the sub.  i think its actually that realisation that finally helps it all to click into place.  no one can make you surrender completely, no one can make you let go unless youre ready and feel secure enough in youreself.

the right soil conditions are imperative however - the sub has to trust that her trust is well placed and that she wont be let to fall on her face the moment that she uncoils from her safe little lair and ventures closer in

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 11:43:10 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		For me, I was able to let go easily in most areas, but I was very fearful of a couple of specific things that I'd had bad experiences with, or that I had worries about. I trusted the person, and that made the journeys through my fears and doubts so much easier. I did struggle with myself, not to trust him, not to be open or surrender, but to confront my fears and triumph over them.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 11:55:05 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

maybe this is what icarys is talking about a little, but it took me a while to realise that it wasnt so much what the Dominant did to get me to open up and let go it was more to do with me allowing myself to let go.


It's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not up to me to do anything other than be myself..She is okay with that or not..but it goes a little deeper....She has to take responsibility for herself and her abilities to surrender and not rely on me help her into a place where she can...It just isn't in my job description to do so. Be ready for me if I am ready for you.




_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 11:57:04 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

When you get down to the nitty-gritty of how submission, surrender, yielding, and vulnerability come up in the course of a relationship, how the philosophy is put into action, that is where small differences are magnified.

There can be larger differences in definitions depending on the people involved but I think you may have something.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 12:11:13 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

maybe this is what icarys is talking about a little, but it took me a while to realise that it wasnt so much what the Dominant did to get me to open up and let go it was more to do with me allowing myself to let go.


It's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not up to me to do anything other than be myself..She is okay with that or not..but it goes a little deeper....She has to take responsibility for herself and her abilities to surrender and not rely on me help her into a place where she can...It just isn't in my job description to do so. Be ready for me if I am ready for you.





i agree that to be youreself is all that is asked of you, so long as youreself is trustworthy, consistant and can be relied upon not to step away as she capitulates.

but in as much as it was my work that got me there the man i was with had no small part to play in helping me to feel safe and able.

im not sure if others feel the same way, but after i let go that first time and realised that i was fully responsible for what i did, how i felt and where it was taking me the fear of being left high and dry afterwards vanished.  the odd thing is, and its almost an oxymororn really is that whilst youre fear is that youll be at youre weakest as you surrender and let go the opposite is true.  i am at my strongest in fact and the letting go process that i have gone through twice now has made me far stronger and much less fearful of my own vulnerability.

im not sure how a dominant could help a sub to surrender and let go when it is so much to do with their own inner workings, but as kiwi said, talking talking talking, sharing and being given the platform to self express safely must be up there as one of the main contributors.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 12:15:01 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Most people are sure they know who they are but haven't the first clue what's really going on inside. They are cock sure they are ready to dive into a relationship and are healthy enough emotionally to do this. It just isn't so for a large majority.


Funny, I'm having that discussion with someone now. I wholeheartedly agree.

quote:

You have to be in a place of surrender before you can surrender.


You nailed that one on the head. You're always surrendering to self before you can truthfully let go with another completely.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 12:16:46 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I'm betting your idea of her fighting tooth and nail wouldn't match mine either, Jeff.
Perhaps. I can elaborate though. Carol, of course, wasn't really able to fight me directly. What she was able to do was go into bouts of depression, fits of anger, periods of panic, and god knows what else. It was enough for me to say, "That's it. I don't need this crap. I'm done with M/s. If you don't want to be my slave then you don't have to be, just like I always told you."

In the end, that pretty much put the essential truth of the situation flat in her face. I really had given up. It was not a ploy. So now she had to decide whether she was able and/or willing to be less than perfect for me. I'd stopped pulling the plow and she had to decide if she wanted to shoulder the yoke and pull or not. In the end, as was always true, she had no real choice in that.

So whether or not you would call it "tooth and nail", it sure was from my standpoint. There were plenty of tears all the way around.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 1:04:39 PM   
bestheadyet


Posts: 266
Joined: 2/3/2010
Status: offline 		definitely its not just an adventure...its a job!!!

after being questioned why i was so wishy washy....'you could run a dominant ad'.........made me think long and hard.

just have to be patient.......rome wasn't built in a day....lol

my favorite thing to say is ......all art is a work in progress......this is an art ...a skill....a statement of being. just all foreign is all.

i need a hug.....lol

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 1:17:13 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Icarys I think the number might be quite a bit higher than you think.

I don't have a hard time letting go once I get there. However the process it takes for me to get to that place where I really trust myself in the hands and mind of another can be painstakingly tedious for them. After massive amounts of communication and sometimes even talking about the same thing more than once, I reach my comfort zone and it's all easy after that. I think I must be a bit off though because so many people here say meet someone within a few phone calls. I just can't see the point to that at all. If I haven't gotten to the mental and emotional trust stage, meeting would do nothing to get me there and would most likely just frustrate them more.

I'm sure it is.

Why does it have to be so hard though? You can come to the realization that someone is trustworthy fairly easy..It doesn't take that long if you pay sole attention to their actions and words lining up.

Edited: I can usually tell if a person is trustworthy in as little as a week or so..There are ques people give without even realizing it.(I aint about to give up my Debit card pin at that point but...)





My debit card pin is much less valuable than my surrender, trust me.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 1:26:32 PM   
LadySilver0523


Posts: 99
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm... Interesting post. Even if it is gleened from another thread. :D I would discuss all this crap about myself, but... *sighs* My loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong journy is about to come to an end and I'm finally going to be going to be with my love, my Master, My submissive, the one that made me believe in love, life, and deep human affection all over again. *sighs contendedly* So.. For now, I shall keep my long story to myself and tell it at another time. *smiles demerly*
 
Much love always,
 
Silver

_____________________________

Um... What's going on??... Am I ALWAYS the last to know??

Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely

The means justifes the ends ... Not the other way around


(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 1:28:43 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't want anyone's pin number.

I don't want anyones easy surrender. If it just pops right out, I immediately question it's value.

When I get it, I want it, all without thought or question.

I don't mind waiting for that.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 3:07:02 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

My debit card pin is much less valuable than my surrender, trust me.

If you say so


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 3:10:16 PM   
DaddysInkedSlut


Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		The more time we spend together more I let go of things especially my trust issues and fear. Sometimes, those issues creep back up and he patiently helps me feel secure enough to let go again.

_____________________________


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 3:30:56 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I'm betting your idea of her fighting tooth and nail wouldn't match mine either, Jeff.
Perhaps. I can elaborate though. Carol, of course, wasn't really able to fight me directly. What she was able to do was go into bouts of depression, fits of anger, periods of panic, and god knows what else. It was enough for me to say, "That's it. I don't need this crap. I'm done with M/s. If you don't want to be my slave then you don't have to be, just like I always told you."

In the end, that pretty much put the essential truth of the situation flat in her face. I really had given up. It was not a ploy. So now she had to decide whether she was able and/or willing to be less than perfect for me. I'd stopped pulling the plow and she had to decide if she wanted to shoulder the yoke and pull or not. In the end, as was always true, she had no real choice in that.

So whether or not you would call it "tooth and nail", it sure was from my standpoint. There were plenty of tears all the way around.

Oh I believe you've had your trials..all couples do to varying degrees but as you've spoken many times about Carol's personality, I wonder how much trouble she could have been. Trouble is trouble though, especially when your in the mix of things.

Still it's very possible we've experienced varying degrees of hardship in relationships but that's not important.

When I said some of the things earlier they were of course from my own personal take. Although I do realize relationships aren't meant to be a cakewalk, they aren't meant to be a war-zone either.

Now some have made jokes about submission just popping out...That doesn't happen of course in the sense that they speak of but I've seen more than a few who were willing and ready and had the disposition to move into something like that much more easily than others. Not because they thought they had found their one but because they know no other way to be.


Anyway, I'm off. Enjoy.

Edited cause I goofed


< Message edited by Icarys -- 6/12/2010 3:47:38 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: letting go - 6/12/2010 9:59:54 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Funny, I'm having that discussion with someone now. I wholeheartedly agree.

Do tell..


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: letting go - 6/13/2010 7:48:46 AM   
sblady


Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

My submission felt like a struggle, that little inner voice kept getting in the way. things like pride, embarrassment, vulnerability, self protection, fear of being hurt, of being altered too much, of losing myself and my identity, of being exposed and so on.



I can absolutely relate to that entire portion. You summed my feelings up quite nicely, thank you.

I've been in a relationship with Sir for almost 3 years and have only recently allowed myself to totally relax in my position. I had never allowed anyone to see and know almost every side of me, except him, so this concept was terrifying (to say the least). Thankfully, he has a lot of patience. I doubt that many would have allowed me this much time to fully understand that when I made the decision to submit, it meant submitting all of me, even things that were uncomfortable and left me vulnerable, especially on an emotional level.


_____________________________

Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. Dalai Lama





(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: letting go - 6/13/2010 8:01:22 AM   
sblady


Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

If you put to one side your own personal agenda and financial expectations, but focus on helping another, (I.E. you do not have $ signs in your eyes) you to gain genuine trust and potentially a good lasting friendship. Same applies in this case. 


I love your comments, especially as it shows a degree of patience that doesn't appear to be common in these days of "instant gratification". Thank you



_____________________________

Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. Dalai Lama





(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: letting go - 6/13/2010 8:53:13 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Funny, I'm having that discussion with someone now. I wholeheartedly agree.

Do tell.


It is rare that both parties entering the exchange are self aware and liberated from self-inflicted forms of slavery. As such, it's a little challenging for you to shine the light on something in another that you have difficulty pinpointing within yourself. To that I'll add, I don't feel most are finding their "real selves" in the manner it's put forth, but typically a depiction of self as constructed by the other party.

As we know there's a million ways to look at a painting. But it's creator recognizes the meaning behind every detail it contains. For most, finding the answers beneath the strokes is willingly assigned to others rather than managed from within. As such, it's inevitably that the supposed discoveries are later refuted as falsehoods and mistakes.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: letting go - 6/13/2010 11:39:24 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

eurekka

The eurekka moment is when you realize there's no internal struggle going on for whatever reason.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 60
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