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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 12:38:49 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Here's a good example of a false dichotomy.  Why can't they have MORE THAN ONE "loyal devoted sub that loves, worships, and cares for them"?  You're implying that having more than one sub means settling for a lower level of devotion from each one.  It doesn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd

With all due respect, I am wondering why I see so many Dommes that have several submissives instead of one loyal devoted sub that loves, worships, and cares for them.

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 12:40:15 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		You ask "why?", the answer is really rather obvious to me: Why not?

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(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 12:55:04 PM   
MzPam


Posts: 59
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		Time for My two cents lol   I will own more than one slave as for Me personally it is what I perfer, what I need and want. No one slave can give Me everything I want or need. My current boy tries his very best to do all for Me, but he knows he can't and knows there will be more joining the house hold both male and female. I love My slave and will love My other slaves just as much, I have 4 children and love them all very much, which shows I can love more than one. My mother and she is vanilla said she knows not one "man" or slave can satisfy Me and I would say she knows Me the best lol.
 
I agree with the one comment, I don't have sex with My slaves as far as the conventual sex goes, the sex I have with them is with My strap on does that qualify  ? I am the first to admit there is a sexual aspect in every D/s relationship, but again this house is a lifestyle not a play ground, although W/we do play, this house is not baised on "play" it is service. My slave/s  are very loved, they even get hugs and cuddles :)
 
Mz Pam

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 1:07:16 PM   
acctonthelook


Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"


Do you not believe your own quote?  I think you're question is simple and a simple one to answer.

Monogamy is part of you, Poly is a part of others.

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 1:22:28 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
I'm lucky on two fronts here, I communicate well with my Mistress and we share the same values and lifestyle.

On your own behalf, I would say one thing. If you are involved with a married person, a DOM lets say, and that that person decides to have another (so she has three men) sub --- that decision would seriously impact you and the time and attention you would receive in your relationship. Plus, if you are not consulted in her decision, that is going to make you feel badly and poorly valued.

I guess the model of poly everyone has on their minds now is BIG LOVE, where the main character has three wives. My GOD, that man is in CONSTANT DEMAND, and he has little down time. By the time he gets to the next wife, the expectations from her are huge whereas the energy he has is diminished. Love and attention can only stretch so far .... and I think the key is knowing where the outer boundaries lie.

When the boundaries are stretched too far, a huge fight just looms on the horizon.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 1:49:29 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Currently, my boy and I are negotiating his love life. I am much older than him. I have had my offspring and won't have any more. He is younger, has a family who places a demand on him to marry someday, wants a baby of his own, and still desires the opportunity to experience life as a young adult. Although him finding a Mistress to suit those needs is an option, it's not one either of us are happy with. Instead, we will probably find a compatible female submissive more his age, and she will become my sub as well as his wife. I will not love him any less if I collar her.

Poly is a very foriegn concept to many Western civilizations that socially practice and teach coupling. I was brought up more tribally oriented and went on to study culture as an adult. So the concepts of many people, larger households, communes, more than one spouse, harems, and clans are completely natural and make sense to me. What doesn't make sense to me is placing the expectation on a single individual to meet my every need. To me, that seems overwhelming and unfair to the person.


The trick would be the wife acknowledging your authority AND not seeing you as a threat.

Also there is the law of threesomes in play: When the shit hits the fan its always two (2) against one (1).

My Mistress and I sometimes talk about some form of spousal inclusion, and the one big roadblock is the "threat" that would present to our marriages. So, we've stayed the course of not crossing the streams and respecting our own spouses first --- and not making them feel uncomfortable or threatened. In your situation, it seems you would be first over the spouses, which is not a position I feel you could easily hold or maintain over time. I think there's a TV show in it though or at least a book.

Sometimes my Mistress gets discouraged not feeling like a "real mistress" or femdom b/c I am secondary to her and she is secondary to me. In respone to her I tell her, "no, you are just making wise adult choices." Part of being adult is operating in the world you've created and are responsible for. I tell her that caring about her world more than her own fleeting excitiments is a virtue. To me she's an ideal FEMDOM --- which is a strong woman who thinks of others first and works off of that as her foundation.

I think in some way you are tying to presevere your FEMDOM relationship with a sub who has needs you could never meet. I have to give you credit for thinking outside the box on this one. It can't hurt to explore solutions to your problem.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/12/2006 1:52:18 PM >

(in reply to Proprietrix)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 2:42:48 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		The answer as has been said is simple:  people do a lot of things because they can...  Some folks can make it work, and other times, it's an unworkable mess.
I am a Domme who seeks only one devoted sub with whom to have a fullfilling relationship... If that doesn't happen, I am not so inflexible as to say that other alternatives will never happen in my future, especially if my unmentionable is all grown up and out of the house, and I don't have to explain why I have 2 male roomates who seem very devoted to moi.  M

_____________________________

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 4:15:47 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I'm lucky on two fronts here, I communicate well with my Mistress and we share the same values and lifestyle.

On your own behalf, I would say one thing. If you are involved with a married person, a DOM lets say, and that that person decides to have another (so she has three men) sub --- that decision would seriously impact you and the time and attention you would receive in your relationship. Plus, if you are not consulted in her decision, that is going to make you feel badly and poorly valued.

I guess the model of poly everyone has on their minds now is BIG LOVE, where the main character has three wives. My GOD, that man is in CONSTANT DEMAND, and he has little down time. By the time he gets to the next wife, the expectations from her are huge whereas the energy he has is diminished. Love and attention can only stretch so far .... and I think the key is knowing where the outer boundaries lie.

When the boundaries are stretched too far, a huge fight just looms on the horizon.


I think that folks see having more than one wife as equal to male domination but that need not be the case; it can be, it often is, but it is not necessary. I think on the show the wives make up his schedule, right? Who has the power then?

And yes, the more people in your life, the more time you have to make for others as opposed to yourself. I found out through experience that one live-slaves, one husband, and up to two others who do not live with me will probably be my ideal and my max. There is only so much of me to go around though I do like having someone whenever I want.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 5:01:28 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd

Yes, the old posessive thing we males are born with I guess. She may have owned me, but she was mine and mine alone.



One of the wonders of being human is the inherent ability to overcome biological urges and use free will to dictate our actions.  I could really care less how long this urge has been in males, it is not a reason for me to modify my behavior.  Hate it for ya, hope you don't drive yourself too crazy with it.

I reserve the right to have the kinds of relationships I choose in my life, whatever they may be and however they may manifest.  I belong to no one (regardless of how they see it).

I've been the domina on the receiving end of emotional blackmail before.  Well, they tried anyway.  Tough shit if they're too insecure to deal with their fears of inadequacy.  Get a therapist, but don't try to use your choice to suffer emotionally to manipulate me into trying to fill the void in your self esteem that only you can fill. 

Emotions are manipulable, transient and subject to much influence.  Don't ask me to base my life decisions on your emotion because - well you're gonna get your feelin's hurt.  Love is in action and being given or it's just emotion (and yeah, some times emotion can be pretty awesome and sometimes it can suck dirt - it's part of participating in the human experience).  I consider the feelings of the people I care about because I care, but I don't owe that consideration to anybody and won't let someone try to tell me that I should behave in some way because it will salve their emotions.  Why should I do what you won't do for yourself?

Show me what you will do to make yourself feel better, show me that you're an active participant in your growth, show me that you are willing to examine your own reactions and emotions in a healthy and personally responsible way.  Then I'm all over it for you and with you.  But take on the role of victim with me, or allow your emotions to be the excuse for ugly behavior (whether it's blatant acting out or dysfunctional emotional blackmail) and I'll walk away and leave you to deal with it yourself.

Remember, pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 10:21:16 PM   
FLsubmalecd


Posts: 143
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd

Yes, the old posessive thing we males are born with I guess. She may have owned me, but she was mine and mine alone.



One of the wonders of being human is the inherent ability to overcome biological urges and use free will to dictate our actions.  I could really care less how long this urge has been in males, it is not a reason for me to modify my behavior.  Hate it for ya, hope you don't drive yourself too crazy with it.

I reserve the right to have the kinds of relationships I choose in my life, whatever they may be and however they may manifest.  I belong to no one (regardless of how they see it).

I've been the domina on the receiving end of emotional blackmail before.  Well, they tried anyway.  Tough shit if they're too insecure to deal with their fears of inadequacy.  Get a therapist, but don't try to use your choice to suffer emotionally to manipulate me into trying to fill the void in your self esteem that only you can fill. 

Emotions are manipulable, transient and subject to much influence.  Don't ask me to base my life decisions on your emotion because - well you're gonna get your feelin's hurt.  Love is in action and being given or it's just emotion (and yeah, some times emotion can be pretty awesome and sometimes it can suck dirt - it's part of participating in the human experience).  I consider the feelings of the people I care about because I care, but I don't owe that consideration to anybody and won't let someone try to tell me that I should behave in some way because it will salve their emotions.  Why should I do what you won't do for yourself?

Show me what you will do to make yourself feel better, show me that you're an active participant in your growth, show me that you are willing to examine your own reactions and emotions in a healthy and personally responsible way.  Then I'm all over it for you and with you.  But take on the role of victim with me, or allow your emotions to be the excuse for ugly behavior (whether it's blatant acting out or dysfunctional emotional blackmail) and I'll walk away and leave you to deal with it yourself.

Remember, pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional.


Wow! That was some pretty strong stuff! I can clearly see that the words love and devotion mean different things to each of us.
You said you belong to no one. Sorry Ma'am. Sorry you don't mean that much to one man that belongs to you. Or him mean that much to you that you want to belong to him. 
When in love you belong to each other. It is not a one way street. Now as far as the D/s dynamics go, yes, the sub belongs to the Domme in that part of the relationship. Have to separate love and D/s to get my meaning.   
When two people love each other, and I don't care if it's D/s or not. They both need to show, demonstrate and nurture that love. Even if you have to make some changes.
It's called compromise. We are not talking about self esteem issues here. Don't know why you added that. We are talking about broken vows and the end of a love and D/s relationship. I sense your comments were directed at me. How can you make such assumptions as to what I feel, think or did in this relationship. Emotional blackmail? Where does that come into play here.
I came here to get opinions and answers to part of what bugged me about what she did and seems to have wanted without telling me a long time ago. Yes, she could have changed her mind. She could have been up front about it and been open and honest. But she did not. So my question was to help me understand, to learn and yes, to deal with it.
I'm sorry Ma'am, but you showed me a side of D/s I don't ever want to see again. Some one that can profess love one day and as soon as it does not go her way or it gets a little hard, can walk away and accuse the hurt one of emotional blackmail.
Damn, you sound a little like her last cold e-mails to me. Definately not the kind of woman I can or want to love or submit to. She put all the blame on me and I did nothing to cause our breakup except get sick to my stomach for her breaking a very important vow (to me) we had.
Sorry, this guy thinks that was wrong  to do and the cold way she did it.
I am so sick and tired of hearing to many Dommes come off as I do what I want and to hell with you, a mere sub and your loving loyal feelings. Excuse me for being human with emotions.
 
No one implied that you can't have the type of relationships you want. I have no problem with what works for you. But at the expense of someone that loved you.... and you make a different choice mid stream? And if he cries about it or is devastated by it, you would call it emotional blackmail?
And you can just up and walk away? If so then there never was love. Not love by my understanding of the word.  
Sorry Ma'am, your comments sound cold to me.
Sounded like a rant on what you feel is your way or the highway. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, forgive me. But it does not apply to me or even what this topic is about. If I went into this relationship knowing or understanding that she wanted more then one sub, I'd have said goodbye long before the words I love you came out of my heart and mouth. It's just not for me. And like you, I reserve the right to have the kinds of relationships I choose. We all have that choice. Nothing wrong with your having more then one sub as long as I'm not one of them. Because that won't happen. We are all wired differently. 

_____________________________

"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"

(in reply to MizSuz)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 10:30:15 PM   
FLsubmalecd


Posts: 143
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justmeagain69

Im going to post this because I have been in a place where you are and what my best friend told me changed every thing I felt and thought.  Bear in mind, this may not be you or your situation, but it gave me some great perspective - maybe it will help you the same way.  I was living with my Dom and he came to the conclusion that the way my life is, kids, single parent, finances, stress etc. - that he could not continue to live with me.  He has PTSD so stresses of this nature, when they build up, tend to overload his circuits.  He assured me and I knew he loved me, but that for his own mental health, he couldnt deal with the life I was and have to live.  He went back to his house, now lived in by his ex wife.  He learned being there, that he had unfinished business with her, and with his adult children.  Amends to make, effort to put forth there.  He could no longer be with me, he needed to fix his family.  I could respect that, what submissive couldnt handle coming second to a Dom's children and family?  What I couldnt deal with at the time, was the idea of him
1. Sleeping with his ex wife now that they were looking at making some ammends and where all this left me.
2. Seeing him on a regular basis (hes my best friend and works doing odds and ends at my office for my boss) and not being able to touch him, serve him or be his like we had been.  The idea of dealing with that while mending a broken heart (he was in my eyes "THE ONE") was more then I could really face.  So I talked to my best friend, as I usually do in this type of situation, cried on her shoulder vented, whined and otherwise explained that I couldnt understand how two people so in love and well suited didnt end up together in that whole happily ever after way.

She said to me:  "I understand sis, maybe you dont love him enough to just be his friend.  That happens sometimes." 

That floored me.  Not love him enough?  Impossible! 

Here was the man I had given every breath of my spirit and heart to, the one I could not even imagine living without.  Who I sore over and up and down that I loved more then any other person walking this earth.... and I didnt love him enough?  Again  my mind screamed IMPOSSIBLE!

But the fact is, she said it and she had a point.  If I could love him that much, really and truly, added to the fact that I am a submissive.  His submissive, his little girl, his baby...how could I not love him enough to let him go?  That is when it really cleared up for me.  I did.  I loved him enough to crawl through dirt, go away forever, be his friend, his whatever he needed because I love him.  I loved him enough to do anything within my power to make his life happier or better, everything fell into place. 

We are the best of friends now, closer I think then we were before we parted ways.  We see each other regularly, I get my "daddy" fix in his presence and it sustains me as I wait for the time that he can once again be with me on a more "permanent" basis.  The fact is, with his illness and my stressful life - that may never ever happen.  But sometimes you do love someone enough to let them go, even if you know that he is going to go work on fixing a relationship with someone else.

Maybe helpful, maybe just a rambling of thoughts, but I thought I would share in case you can take something positive from it.

I wish you luck in your jouneys in the lifestyle and beyond.


Thank you justmeagain69. I guess we have some things in common. So sorry this happened to you. She does have some serious medical issues and loads of responsibilities to her family and a business they own. I'm sure those issues payed a big role in her decision to release and change into a person I don't even know. And it's that time for her. Her hormones have been playing hell on her. I understand some woman go through hell during the change of life. 
But like you, regardless of how badly she hurt me, how much of a loss I feel, I can honestly say I want what is best for her. I loved her that much. OK, I guess I still love her.
Your experience and what your friend said makes sense. Again, thank you for sharing.     

_____________________________

"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"

(in reply to justmeagain69)
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RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/12/2006 10:50:38 PM   
ServiceNTucson


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I truly agree with this.  And this is one of the reasons I seek slaves as opposed to a submissive boy for an exclusive relationship.  I do keep Myself open to the possibility, and it could happen.  I will always take a look.  But I have found that, for the most part, when the submissive boys approach Me, they are not only looking for exclusivity but they also begin to sneak in the "not fair" and "if you could just bend a little on this or that" things. 
I am not good at monogamy.  Never was.  And it does no one any good for Me to be dishonest about that.  Especially Myself. 
I am older and more settled now.  In fact, I am celibate at this time. But I like to keep My options open, so My contract does state that a slave will not be with anyone but Me, however, I can do whatever I choose.  The relationship may or may not include genital sex, but chances are there will be no traditionally styled sexual relations in any M/s relationship I enter. 
I am sure this is another reason I have a hard time finding My boy or boys.  There are a lot of romantic notions flying around the community these days.  Nothing wrong with that, but I see a lot of boys who even identify as "slave" and they want to fall in love and sleep in My bed.  That doesn't work for Me.  I had one boy from Tucson who wanted exclusivity as a live-out, and said that unfaithfullness, to him, meant even if spanked another boy during the week, while he was at home in another city, he should have the same right to be spanked by another Domina.  I got the "that's not fair", (I get that a lot!  *S*) to which I replied..."who said this was supposed to be fair?".  Now I do believe it is fair in that both parties get what they want.  The fact that it seems skewed from the typical persepctive has nothing to do with anything. I do not look at this from a typical perspective, so I do wonder why so many of the boys seem to.
Did I mention I don't do the romance thing real well, either?  I like being courted and  treated well.  But I do think men have their place, and it is at My feet, and not holding My hand. 


Goddess,

The concept of "fairness" in slavery has always amused me.  Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and vice versa.

As I see it, once an "Owner/slave relationship" has been established, a collar offered and accepted, or whatever, the prime directive is, "whatever pleases the Owner."  Whether or not the slave likes it is irrelevant.

I believe that in one way and one way only the Owner and the slave have absolutely equal rights.  The Owner has the right to do whatever She wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.  The slave also has the right to do whatever She (the Owner that is) wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.

_____________________________

Harry

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx


www.desertdominion.org

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 2:57:25 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline 		That actually makes some sense as to why things blew up for you.    She was everything to you.  You were important sometime after her husband, her family, and her business got theirs.  The specifics of "why" aren't important; I'm just surprised it lasted as long as it did with that balance.

So what you know is that you want more priority with your "next" domme.   However, you do need to take some time to heal before you go looking for another otherwise that relationship too will be doomed from the start. 

There are plenty of monogamous minded Dommes out there.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to ServiceNTucson)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 4:35:58 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
Wow! That was some pretty strong stuff! I can clearly see that the words love and devotion mean different things to each of us.


Indeed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
You said you belong to no one. Sorry Ma'am. Sorry you don't mean that much to one man that belongs to you. Or him mean that much to you that you want to belong to him. 


It's got nothing to do with meaning 'that much' to someone.  You assume that because I refuse to belong to someone it means I don't know what love is or that I have a significant relationship in my life.

I don't have the kind of relationship you find significant, and wouldn't.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
When in love you belong to each other. It is not a one way street. Now as far as the D/s dynamics go, yes, the sub belongs to the Domme in that part of the relationship. Have to separate love and D/s to get my meaning.   
When two people love each other, and I don't care if it's D/s or not. They both need to show, demonstrate and nurture that love. Even if you have to make some changes.


We agree, we just don't agree on how it should manifest.  You also separate D/s from the rest of the relationship - I do not.  It's a thread that runs through everything for me.  I don't compartmentalize my relationships, particularly if the agreement is that the relationship is a D/s relationship.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
It's called compromise. We are not talking about self esteem issues here. Don't know why you added that.


It's abundantly obvious to me that you do not see the connection between jealousy, possessiveness and self esteem.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
We are talking about broken vows and the end of a love and D/s relationship.


A broken vow is just wrong and difficult to digest regardless of the dynamic.  You'll note that I said that I never agree to be possessed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
I sense your comments were directed at me. How can you make such assumptions as to what I feel, think or did in this relationship. Emotional blackmail? Where does that come into play here.


My statements were about the relationships I've had in which the other person attempted to blame me for their emotions because they were unwilling to step up and be responsible for the way they felt.  I'm not surprised that you believed it was about you, though.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
I came here to get opinions and answers to part of what bugged me about what she did and seems to have wanted without telling me a long time ago.


That's what I gave you, one woman's opinion about the dynamic you describe (although your original post didn't have much to do with having multiples, rather it was about how you've been victimized).  Should I have gone off on a judgemental tangent about her not keeping her word having only your skewed by emotion perspective?  I responded to what I saw in your posts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
Yes, she could have changed her mind. She could have been up front about it and been open and honest. But she did not. So my question was to help me understand, to learn and yes, to deal with it.


If she wasn't honest with you then the main thing you have to deal with is having chosen to be with someone who is dishonest (there's that nasty little issue of personal responsibility for emotional health again).  Since you were both married and apparently cheating on your spouses when you began the relationship I'm not sure why it was a surprise to you or why you would expect different behavior from her.  It's that expectation that has, in part, caused your grief. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
I'm sorry Ma'am, but you showed me a side of D/s I don't ever want to see again. Some one that can profess love one day and as soon as it does not go her way or it gets a little hard, can walk away and accuse the hurt one of emotional blackmail.
Damn, you sound a little like her last cold e-mails to me. Definately not the kind of woman I can or want to love or submit to. She put all the blame on me and I did nothing to cause our breakup except get sick to my stomach for her breaking a very important vow (to me) we had.


Perspectives are a curious thing.  You have showed me a side of D/s that not only do I not want to see, but adamently refuse to participate in.  Slaves trying to enslave with their slavery and then getting upset when it back fires on them.  I haven't heard from her so the only blame I see happening is from you.  First her, now me.  Don't you see the pattern?  It doesn't fit into your narrow view of how things should be so it's cold and hard and full of fault, particularly because it's not manifesting in the way you want.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
Sorry, this guy thinks that was wrong  to do and the cold way she did it.


If your perspective is accurate and not skewed by your emotion then I agree with you.  I can't make that call though because I am distrustful of your recounting the facts because you present as the walking wounded, a victim, and I am usually distrustful of anyone who tries to hold others accountable for their emotions.  Perhaps I've had too much therapy to buy in.  It's obvious to me that you are hurting, I am not willing to swallow your story that you are not accountable for your pain, though.  I happen to know that the road to healing is in owning your own responsibility.  Everyone else can flutter around you stepping on eggshells because you're emotionally fragile, but I will not blow more smoke up your ass (which is what you are complaining about in the first place).  Where is YOUR responsibility in your pain?  That's where you're going to find your healing, assuming that healing is a goal.  Perhaps you get something out of being the victim (you wouldn't be the first).


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
I am so sick and tired of hearing to many Dommes come off as I do what I want and to hell with you, a mere sub and your loving loyal feelings. Excuse me for being human with emotions.


Then stop hearing that because I assure you that is not what I said.  Perhaps asking yourself why you heard it will hold answers for you.  You might need to get responsible for your emotions before you can see the bigger picture, though.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
No one implied that you can't have the type of relationships you want. I have no problem with what works for you. But at the expense of someone that loved you.... and you make a different choice mid stream?


Like you and your ex-wife?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
And if he cries about it or is devastated by it, you would call it emotional blackmail?
And you can just up and walk away?


Oh yeah, big time.  I have no use for someone who can't take responsibility for the way they are feeling, gets stuck in blame and victim mode and then wants to draw others into it in the hopes of getting validation and/ or permission to continue the same pattern.  Perhaps you're familiar with the phrase "tits on a bull"?


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
If so then there never was love. Not love by my understanding of the word.  
Sorry Ma'am, your comments sound cold to me.


I wouldn't have the kind of relationship you describe for all the tea in China, or India, or Turkey.  Your comments sound like codependent shite to me.  Woe be to the woman who willingly takes on a grown man who can't be responsible for his own feelings and then wants to control her through them. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
Sounded like a rant on what you feel is your way or the highway. Maybe I am missing something here. If so, forgive me. But it does not apply to me or even what this topic is about. If I went into this relationship knowing or understanding that she wanted more then one sub, I'd have said goodbye long before the words I love you came out of my heart and mouth. It's just not for me. And like you, I reserve the right to have the kinds of relationships I choose. We all have that choice. Nothing wrong with your having more then one sub as long as I'm not one of them. Because that won't happen. We are all wired differently. 


Indeed we are all wired differently and I'm sure there is someone out there who wants what you want.  I hope you find her and are happy with each other.  Truly. 

I can't argue with your position that had you known you wouldn't have participated, in fact I applaud it, but I wonder if these issues came up with your spouses before you were married.  Did things change for you?  Did you walk away when they changed?  Did you ever come clean with your ex-wife?  You've already admitted that things changed and you changed the rules without consulting your wife, and yet you can't see how this could possibly happen to you or find empathy for the person who does it?  Perhaps if you forgive yourself you will be able to be more understanding and forgiving of your ex domina, but it's going to require being responsible for yourself and a willingness to stop seeing yourself as a victim.  Just a thought.

This interaction between us has everything to do with what this topic is about.  You asked why a domina would want multiple slaves and/or submissives.  One very good reason is so dysfunctional slaves looking to enslave with their slavery never get the foothold they are looking for.



_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 4:54:39 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd
Oddly, if it was a female sub for her, i know I could have handled that. But the idea of her being sexual and physical with another male hurt more then any thing I have ever experienced.

Yep love is a bitch isnt it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
Why?  I have heard this from men all My life.  In fact, a three way with another woman is one of the biggest fantasies.  But what is it that is so damn threatening about another man?  Males seem to have a comfort or security level if their wife or SO is with another woman.  But let another guy enter the picture and it is all over (other than the cucks, that is). 


Sure, most female subs seeking a dom will NOT submit to poly especially if its another woman under any circumstances for the very same reasons.  This is not a male thing.   This is a passion thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
This is an understood concept that is widely accepted, but I have never had a reasonable explanation.   I would just like to hear one man who is able to put this deep seated emotion into words.


one word.  LOVE
One reason.  The well runs dry

as simple as it gets.

Dispassionate people never understand those who still embrace passionate loving relationships.  This only effects those who are passionate and love deeply.  Those who are dispassionate have forgotten how exactly like polititions have forgotten to tell the truth.  Thats not to say they do not love or feel some passion just not any where near as much as you do!

Think for a moment FLsubmalecd.  When the well run dry did your tummy feel like it was somewhere near your ankles?  Did your dinner feel like it was on the virge of coming up.  Did it feel like 1/2 your insides were missing or left your body?  Did you vomit or nearly vomit? Did the stress make you so weak you had to sit or lay down?  welcome to failed love.  that is passionate love.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold     
they are not only looking for exclusivity but they also begin to sneak in the "not fair" and "if you could just bend a little on this or that" things.

Good philosphy if you want to install a revolving door at your house.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I do not look at this from a typical perspective, so I do wonder why so many of the boys seem to.

Life is typical, thats the way it is.  just because you do not see life from the "typical" perspective that does not mean the rest of the world follows suit with you.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
Did I mention I don't do the romance thing real well, either?  I like being courted and  treated well.  But I do think men have their place, and it is at My feet, and not holding My hand. 

cold


quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson
The concept of "fairness" in slavery has always amused me.  Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and vice versa.

Really?  have you installed your revolving door yet?  You talk like you can knock them on the head chain em and keep them against their will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson
As I see it, once an "Owner/slave relationship" has been established, a collar offered and accepted, or whatever, the prime directive is, "whatever pleases the Owner."  Whether or not the slave likes it is irrelevant.

until the slave gets pissed and says take your collar and shove it!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson
I believe that in one way and one way only the Owner and the slave have absolutely equal rights.  The Owner has the right to do whatever She wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.  The slave also has the right to do whatever She (the Owner that is) wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.

thats tru again till they walk out the door.


FLsubmalecd i think when ever you read these forums its important to look at the source and keep in mind the solutions offered to the slave when the Master thinks fairness is bullshit.

Sorry to hear you lost in love.  It is a good lesson to learn however as now you know that you cannot be in that kind of relationship.  you either have to "harden your heart" and become dispassionate or find a single woman seeking a mono relationship.  

Lets take this a step further.  Say it did work for you and you were able to get over it for now.  The problem that has always existed in poly relationships is that you never get all the the love of the "one".  It is shared on the same plane.  lets call love candy for the sake of brevity.  

When two people are in love with the same person and your needs require a different flavor candybar than the other guy no problem, but as soon as both of you require the same flavor candybar  all hell breaks loose as you both try to bite on the same candy bar at the same time as you fall down the cliff.

If the other guy gets the candy you starve, or vice versa.  
Now that may not be your case here but just a little side note for ya to think about before jumping into another poly relationship.  

That and anytime you hear prima donna dommes singing the do whatever songs, or they could give a shit about fairness, ie your feelings, run like hell.  Its a fantasy world and they all have revolving doors.

Good luck on your next tour.

r1



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ServiceNTucson)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 5:02:58 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
Since you were both married and apparently cheating on your spouses when you began the relationship I'm not sure why it was a surprise to you or why you would expect different behavior from her.  It's that expectation that has, in part, caused your grief. 


i missed this,  if you were cheating bro then you deserve the load of shit you were about to hand your wife.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 6:52:59 AM   
FLsubmalecd


Posts: 143
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
Since you were both married and apparently cheating on your spouses when you began the relationship I'm not sure why it was a surprise to you or why you would expect different behavior from her.  It's that expectation that has, in part, caused your grief. 


i missed this,  if you were cheating bro then you deserve the load of shit you were about to hand your wife.



Realone,  you are 100% right! I did deserve exactly what I got. The old saying: "What goes around comes around"  For what its worth, part of my pain is doing to my wife what I did to her. She did not deserve to be so hurt. I felt that the day I had to make a choice between her and my Domme. I freely admit it was not easy to see my wife hurt this way. I was very torn up about how I hurt her. Then when it happened to me, I saw it, felt it on a first hand basis. She and I have made amens. I am lucky that we are at least friends. We both care a lot about each other. She has forgiven me but not forgotten. So yes, the cheater got cheated on. Not a good feeling all the way around.
As far as expecting a different behavior from her goes, the love we shared was deep...very deep. We put all our trust into each other. I never once cheated on her and could never have done it. Call it honor among theives (cheaters)
Odd that I was capable of doing it to a woman that stood by be for 18 years because the romance and affection was gone for some time. But the love was always there. It's a shame we could not have worked it out now that it's to late. I have to live with what I did to my wife. I have to try to forgive myself for it. Odd that she is helping me with that issue. Now that's love. But no turning back. Let's say I learned many valuable lessons from all this. These mistakes will never happen again. Shame is an emotion I have felt and delt with too. I admit my wrong doing and deal with it.      

_____________________________

"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 7:59:08 AM   
FLsubmalecd


Posts: 143
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Currently, my boy and I are negotiating his love life. I am much older than him. I have had my offspring and won't have any more. He is younger, has a family who places a demand on him to marry someday, wants a baby of his own, and still desires the opportunity to experience life as a young adult. Although him finding a Mistress to suit those needs is an option, it's not one either of us are happy with. Instead, we will probably find a compatible female submissive more his age, and she will become my sub as well as his wife. I will not love him any less if I collar her.

Poly is a very foriegn concept to many Western civilizations that socially practice and teach coupling. I was brought up more tribally oriented and went on to study culture as an adult. So the concepts of many people, larger households, communes, more than one spouse, harems, and clans are completely natural and make sense to me. What doesn't make sense to me is placing the expectation on a single individual to meet my every need. To me, that seems overwhelming and unfair to the person.


The trick would be the wife acknowledging your authority AND not seeing you as a threat.

Also there is the law of threesomes in play: When the shit hits the fan its always two (2) against one (1).

My Mistress and I sometimes talk about some form of spousal inclusion, and the one big roadblock is the "threat" that would present to our marriages. So, we've stayed the course of not crossing the streams and respecting our own spouses first --- and not making them feel uncomfortable or threatened. In your situation, it seems you would be first over the spouses, which is not a position I feel you could easily hold or maintain over time. I think there's a TV show in it though or at least a book.

Sometimes my Mistress gets discouraged not feeling like a "real mistress" or femdom b/c I am secondary to her and she is secondary to me. In respone to her I tell her, "no, you are just making wise adult choices." Part of being adult is operating in the world you've created and are responsible for. I tell her that caring about her world more than her own fleeting excitiments is a virtue. To me she's an ideal FEMDOM --- which is a strong woman who thinks of others first and works off of that as her foundation.

I think in some way you are tying to presevere your FEMDOM relationship with a sub who has needs you could never meet. I have to give you credit for thinking outside the box on this one. It can't hurt to explore solutions to your problem.


Cloudboy, Thank you for your input. You seem to feel very much like I did with my Domme. I fully accepted that her family came first. Especially her sons. In fact, if she was the type that could have put me first, I would not have respected her and would have lost my love for her. She had expressed many times what your Domme did. That she was not doing a good job as my Domme. The distance of course is what made it hard. I felt she was a very good Domme, the best up until.........well, the rest of the story. I guess that is why I am trying hard to understand her and accept her now even though our ideas on being exclusive have changed. I think it just got to hard for her. I admit, it was very hard on me too. But I hung in there out of love. Frankly, when I saw there was no hope to save this relationship, I felt like a big weight came off my shoulders. I felt free. Sad, but free. Hard to explain.

_____________________________

"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 8:06:48 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

 In fact, if she was the type that could have put me first, I would not have respected her and would have lost my love for her. She had expressed many times what your Domme did. That she was not doing a good job as my Domme.


Hmm...I guess it depends on perspective.  Again, I'm only getting one side here, BUT it seems to me that she did put herself, and not you, first in wanting to play/have sex with someone else.  She didn't cheat - she discussed it with you.  

But you still lost respect for her.

Yes.  I *know* it's a lot more complicated than that, but it's something to think about.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to FLsubmalecd)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Dommes, why more then one loving caring submissive? - 4/13/2006 8:14:15 AM   
FLsubmalecd


Posts: 143
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Think for a moment FLsubmalecd.  When the well run dry did your tummy feel like it was somewhere near your ankles?  Did your dinner feel like it was on the virge of coming up.  Did it feel like 1/2 your insides were missing or left your body?  Did you vomit or nearly vomit? Did the stress make you so weak you had to sit or lay down?  welcome to failed love.  that is passionate love.

FLsubmalecd i think when ever you read these forums its important to look at the source and keep in mind the solutions offered to the slave when the Master thinks fairness is bullshit.

Sorry to hear you lost in love.  It is a good lesson to learn however as now you know that you cannot be in that kind of relationship.  you either have to "harden your heart" and become dispassionate or find a single woman seeking a mono relationship.  

Lets take this a step further.  Say it did work for you and you were able to get over it for now.  The problem that has always existed in poly relationships is that you never get all the the love of the "one".  It is shared on the same plane.  lets call love candy for the sake of brevity.  

When two people are in love with the same person and your needs require a different flavor candybar than the other guy no problem, but as soon as both of you require the same flavor candybar  all hell breaks loose as you both try to bite on the same candy bar at the same time as you fall down the cliff.

If the other guy gets the candy you starve, or vice versa.  
Now that may not be your case here but just a little side note for ya to think about before jumping into another poly relationship.  

That and anytime you hear prima donna dommes singing the do whatever songs, or they could give a shit about fairness, ie your feelings, run like hell.  Its a fantasy world and they all have revolving doors.

Good luck on your next tour.

r1




Realone, Once again, thank you for your words of wisdom. And yes, I got physically ill. I did throw up! I could not eat. I cried for 3 days off and on like I was a water spout! So yes, it was passionte love and nothing less.
In spite of what she did, how she has treated me since. In spite of her now lying to cover up lies. In spite of her being like someone I never knew, In spite of it all, I still love her. I am the type that once I feel love for someone, it just does not go away. I can and have moved on. But she will always be in my heart. I hold onto all the good she once was. Whatever changed in her life to cause her to become anything but the loving caring woamn she once was, makes no difference. She will always be loved. I'd be there for her when and if her world comes crashing down. Sadly, I think it will. I think they call this unconditional love. That's what I feel. When I say I love you forever, forever it is regardless of how things change. It's just tucked out of the way to make room for a new love that will take over all my passion someday. Again, thanks for your kind words and input friend.    

_____________________________

"Don't make someone a priority in your life, When you're only an option in theirs"

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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