quote:

ORIGINAL: MzPam

I agree with the one comment, I don't have sex with My slaves as far as the conventual sex goes, the sex I have with them is with My strap on does that qualify  ? I am the first to admit there is a sexual aspect in every D/s relationship, but again this house is a lifestyle not a play ground, although W/we do play, this house is not baised on "play" it is service. My slave/s  are very loved, they even get hugs and cuddles :)
 
Mz Pam

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson

The concept of "fairness" in slavery has always amused me. Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and vice versa.

As I see it, once an "Owner/slave relationship" has been established, a collar offered and accepted, or whatever, the prime directive is, "whatever pleases the Owner." Whether or not the slave likes it is irrelevant.

I believe that in one way and one way only the Owner and the slave have absolutely equal rights. The Owner has the right to do whatever She wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants. The slave also has the right to do whatever She (the Owner that is) wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson

The concept of "fairness" in slavery has always amused me. Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and vice versa.

As I see it, once an "Owner/slave relationship" has been established, a collar offered and accepted, or whatever, the prime directive is, "whatever pleases the Owner." Whether or not the slave likes it is irrelevant.

I believe that in one way and one way only the Owner and the slave have absolutely equal rights. The Owner has the right to do whatever She wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants. The slave also has the right to do whatever She (the Owner that is) wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzttt HELLO, HELLO anyone in there????? Slavery in the context of a BDSM is a consensual relationship. If you throw fairness out the window, you throw the relationship with it. Your words above convey a severe ignorance as to what this is all really about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson

The concept of "fairness" in slavery has always amused me. Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with fairness, and vice versa.

As I see it, once an "Owner/slave relationship" has been established, a collar offered and accepted, or whatever, the prime directive is, "whatever pleases the Owner." Whether or not the slave likes it is irrelevant.

I believe that in one way and one way only the Owner and the slave have absolutely equal rights. The Owner has the right to do whatever She wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants. The slave also has the right to do whatever She (the Owner that is) wants, whenever She wants, wherever She wants, with whomever She wants.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold


I will ask you to please tell Me (us) what you think a slave in this lifestyle should be.
Perhaps we are finally getting to the difference between sub and slave, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold


I will ask you to please tell Me (us) what you think a slave in this lifestyle should be.
Perhaps we are finally getting to the difference between sub and slave, after all.

I guess I don't believe in slaves and slavery, but I think the concept of this relationship becomes even MORE UNTENABLE if you throw fairness out the window. No one will stay in a relationship that is abusive and exploitive. In the past abuse and exploitation lead to rebellion and murder, in BDSM contexts it might lead to walking out the door, legal charges, or a law suit.

Of course one man's abuse is another's pleasue and all that --- I'll just say sensible people should know what's going on in a relationship and be able to identify what is healthy and unhealthy about it.

As for the sub v. slave thing:

Slaves must stay in role --- and Dom's have a greater responsibility for them because of the dependent nature of the relationship.

Subs have a very elastic role and are more able to be themselves -- adding more creativity and spontaneity to their TOPS. Subs are more responsible for themselves and Mistresses are free from the burdens of Micro management of them.

When I was in a slave like relationship, I really did not communicate with my Mistress outside of my role and place. Also, what I did for her always stayed in character as well. When I left her, she was polite, but never wanted to see me again. She had no interest.

Now as a sub, I get along with my Mistress in all the apects of a Vanilla relationship: sharing meals, conversation, talking about books, family, films and friends. On this level there is actually equality and equal respect --- but there are lines where she has the authority. I like to refer to her as "my lead." She's an excellent lead, and when she leads, I follow and don't make problems. She likes being able to get her way and being able to call the shots. She also likes being in control of the sex and in control of my body.

As a sub though, I feel free to come on to her in many ways --- and she likes that.

As a slave, I felt no such freedom at all.

I'm not sure if this answers the question for everyone, but its what I have to add.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLsubmalecd

Realone, Once again, thank you for your words of wisdom. And yes, I got physically ill. I did throw up! I could not eat. I cried for 3 days off and on like I was a water spout! So yes, it was passionte love and nothing less.
In spite of what she did, how she has treated me since. In spite of her now lying to cover up lies. In spite of her being like someone I never knew, In spite of it all, I still love her. I am the type that once I feel love for someone, it just does not go away. I can and have moved on. But she will always be in my heart. I hold onto all the good she once was. Whatever changed in her life to cause her to become anything but the loving caring woamn she once was, makes no difference. She will always be loved. I'd be there for her when and if her world comes crashing down. Sadly, I think it will. I think they call this unconditional love. That's what I feel. When I say I love you forever, forever it is regardless of how things change. It's just tucked out of the way to make room for a new love that will take over all my passion someday. Again, thanks for your kind words and input friend.    

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I would just like to hear one man who is able to put this deep seated emotion into words.
 

The fear is that she will prefer the other man, which plays into the whole alpha male/competition/dominance complex.  If she prefers the other woman it's not a problem, because the man knows he could always pair with the other woman, too.

Don't assume that because a man self-IDs as submissive, that he's free from the influence of hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary biology.

quote:

I think there’s some program in the male DNA to eliminate competition. Maybe there are men that can co-exist.
I guess it depends on the nature of the subs relationship with the Domme.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Thank you for answering, cloudboy.  My first suggestion would be that you might want to rethink the idea of making a judgement, as you often do, because it doesn't fit your personal sensibilities.
You yourself are stating (as quoted in it's entirety) that one person's abuse might be another's pleasure.  The M/s relationship can be abusive, but it usually isn't.  In all honesty, any relationship can be abusive.  We can only hope that they aren't.
I respect your opinion to make a decision regarding what will make you feel happy and fulfilled.  I know what will make Me happy and fulfilled, and there are boys out there who want something completely different that you do. 
When you make statements like taking the fairness out of a relationship, to Me, that equates to a vanilla coming in here and saying "you are all crazy, why would anyone want to be whipped?"
My point is that what seems unfair to you is not what is unfair to another. We seek a very different dynamic, and it is completely fair if the slave is getting his fulfillment out of his service.  Just because it is not your kind of relationship does not make it "untenable". It is only untenable for you.  I do not like to see anyone making sweeping generalizations because it won't work for him.  That is what you do.
I will also take issue with your reference to being in a "role".  I agree that if it is a role, or being in "character", it will not be sustained.  If it is a lifestyle and who that person is, it can and will be.
So the minute I hear, "that's not fair" from a boy, I dismiss the idea of him as a slave for Me.  Please note I said "For Me".  It is okay if certain hard limits do not match and the personalities are not going to click.  I want what I want.  I am who I am.  The boy who can be fulfilled with that, instead of trying to worm his way into his brand of slavery, will have found his Mistress and have a wonderful relationship.  The moment I hear, "well, if you get to do this, then so should I", that is not the M/s relationship that I want. That is not subjugating oneself to another's will.  That is tit for tat, and this lifestyle has no room for tit for tat for Me.  And I hear this a lot.  It often comes down to the romantic notion that everybody must be in love.  I care for and am very nurturing to My slave boys.  I look for compatiblity and being "in like" because I would not want to sustain any sort of relationship where I was disdainful or contantly annoyed by My boy. I could not.
It is not up to you to determine what is unhealthy and what is not.  Yes, there are times when we see definite red flags, and we usually respond to those when someone is seeking help.  But you seem to have the attitude that anything regarding slavery in this lifestyle is unhealthy.   Not so.
You want what you want.  You are who you are.  It seems you have already found your Mistress as a submissive, and you are both fulfilled with what you need. 
You so easily dismiss and denigrate any relationship that does not make you comfortable.  That is not a good thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

let me get this straight....you are devastated because the married (to somebody else) woman you were breaking your marriage vows with by being sexual with decided to play with another man and would not rule out sex. And this was so traumatic because the two of you had vowed to be exclusive to eachother? Assuming I have the story straight....here's my reaction

Well boyo, what the fuck did you really expect. She is a lying cheat and so are you. What do you find so surprising in the fact that if she would cheat on her husband she might on you. And why are you having such a hard time understanding how somebody might easily assume that any vow of yours to love forever wasn't worth shit in light of your broken marriage vows.

You acted like a horny teenager and you got burned and you are still acting like a teenager. Grow up and act like a man for god's sake, not a little boy. You got what you had coming to you.

quote:

Thank you for your worthless post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I guess I don't believe in slaves and slavery, but I think the concept of this relationship becomes even MORE UNTENABLE if you throw fairness out the window. No one will stay in a relationship that is abusive and exploitive. In the past abuse and exploitation lead to rebellion and murder, in BDSM contexts it might lead to walking out the door, legal charges, or a law suit.

Of course one man's abuse is another's pleasue and all that --- I'll just say sensible people should know what's going on in a relationship and be able to identify what is healthy and unhealthy about it.

As for the sub v. slave thing:

Slaves must stay in role --- and Dom's have a greater responsibility for them because of the dependent nature of the relationship.

Subs have a very elastic role and are more able to be themselves -- adding more creativity and spontaneity to their TOPS. Subs are more responsible for themselves and Mistresses are free from the burdens of Micro management of them.

When I was in a slave like relationship, I really did not communicate with my Mistress outside of my role and place. Also, what I did for her always stayed in character as well. When I left her, she was polite, but never wanted to see me again. She had no interest.

Now as a sub, I get along with my Mistress in all the apects of a Vanilla relationship: sharing meals, conversation, talking about books, family, films and friends. On this level there is actually equality and equal respect --- but there are lines where she has the authority. I like to refer to her as "my lead." She's an excellent lead, and when she leads, I follow and don't make problems. She likes being able to get her way and being able to call the shots. She also likes being in control of the sex and in control of my body.

As a sub though, I feel free to come on to her in many ways --- and she likes that.

As a slave, I felt no such freedom at all.

I'm not sure if this answers the question for everyone, but its what I have to add.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

If you are monogamous, you need monogamy -- frankly I think most people are trained to be monogamous so they find they are happier this way. I just wish those who weren't happy didn't turn around and cheat on the supposed monogamous relationship.

It reads like from your other post that you had a sort-of monogamous agreement with her and if that couldn't be fulfilled then you had every right to move on. would question the wisdom of getting involved with a married or partnered person though if you yourself are monogamous -- it may have been a set-up for problems.

However, in her defense, we can't really control our feelings just what we do with them -- if she cheated, then bad on her; if she just told you what she was feeling and thinking about doing, she was doing the right thing by not hiding it from you.

She had a husband all ready. It was probably unwise for you two to make any claims of exclusivity on each other. Clearly she is poly all ready and to ask her to limit herself was likely flying in the face of her personality; she was unwise to make such an agreement.

In the future you might want to limit yourself only to other monogamous people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Thank you for your worthless post.

Your welcome, and thank you for the worthless thread to begin with

What did you really expect, that I would comiserate with you?....LMAO!!!

Anybody who has read my posts knows my opinion on those who cheat on their spouse. And as to the proffessed topic of the thread, I did answer it....you asked why more than one sub, and I answered you: why not?

You may find that a flippant answer, but when one asks why, I feel one should be prepared to answer the corresponding why not.

However, it is pretty clear to me that the point of this thread was really to whine about how poorly you were treated, and trust me buck, you were not poorly treated. So therfore to my mind the topic and the person are in fact one and the same thing

How dare I judge you?   Easily, I dare to call you on your behaviour because it was wrong, and I dare to say what i say, because you deserve every heartbreak you get as a result of what you did. You know what they say...play with fire....

I threw no stones, I specified what my understanding of the situation was, and since you didn't dispute that, I feel safe in assuming my understanding is correct...in which case both of you were lying to your spouses and both of you were cheating on your spouses....now if a person lies to the person they are supposedly in love with and with whom they share their life, what does that make them if not a liar. If a person has an affair behind the back of their spouse, what does that make them but a cheat? Therefore please explain to me how saying that both you and the "lady" in question are lying cheats is in any way not 100% truthful.

Stop trying to justify your actions, you squirm more than the proverbial toad...you fucked up and you got burned for it. Learn from it and resolve to do better if you ever get another chance.

And as for all your proffessions of undying love for this woman....didn't you also love your wife? Didn't you vow to your wife to be sexually exclusive? Aren't you conveniently overlooking her emotional pain and the destruction of her life while you run off to play your games?