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Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 5:47:09 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		This time I will not focus on abstract concepts such as changing slave's opinions, attitudes or hobbies and changing course of his/her life such as having power to choose for him/her what kind of education and job he/she will get if any, etc.

No, this time I will focus on much more tangible and physical things, more oriented towards standard BDSM types of play and kinks.

So, if slave has any hard limits and if the Master agreed not to ever break them, can this relationship still be considered TPE?

Among the most typical hard limits are scat and piss (especially actual consumation - eating and drinking, including swallowing), and for the sake of discussion I will focus only on the most extreme form - actually eating and swallowing shit.
This is a very serious hard limit. Many people would find it easier to die than to actually consume a turd.
Also, while you will most likely survive eating a turd and you will probably be cured from any contracted infection and continue living a healthy
life after it undamaged - at the same time eating a turd is for most people the most disgusting thing imaginable, extremely unreasonable,
extremely humiliating and at the same time there is a quite significant risk of infection.

So, there are 2 questions.

If eating shit is clearly established as hard limit, can the relationship still be considered TPE or TPE means absolutely no limits?
The question for slaves who think that they are in TPE - would you actually eat a turd if the Master ordered it?

BTW, I apologize to anyone who is too sensitive to even engage in such type of discussion and I recommend them to leave this thread.

P.S.

I am quite aware that scat is a very strong turn-on for some people and that they actually seek this experience. For them this is not even a limit, let alone a hard limit. They are not the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread are people who don't find it erotic at all and who do consider it to be their hard limit.
So I am asking these people, if they are in TPE - would they do it in spite of absolutely hating it - if the Master or Mistress demanded it?

Also - this thread can be used for a more general discussion of the question - Do any limits exist in TPE?

P.P.S

I am not going to get personally involved in this topic, so I am just looking for a neutral discussion without getting into personal stuff.
If you are uncomfortable answering any of these questions - then don't answer them.


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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 6:17:31 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		The error in the question is that is supposes that TPE and slaves are involved with BDSM, where as some lifestyles are only involved in BD as in some bondage and discipline is literally what it says, disciplining an errant slave. Such lifestyles are often not even slave dependent but such slaves are usually domestic service slaves and even where the SM is involved it is usually for the Master's entertainment or as a treat for a slave. Such lifestyles include Gorean and Victorian Lifestyles and I believe the 50s households.

However to respond within the spirit of which you wrote, It is possible that I may discover a slave whose hard limits include something I enjoy such as Needle Play or things which she enjoys may be my hard limits. Part of the wooing period is to sort through these things and work out what is important and what is not. This is compromise. Some areas I will make compromises in whilst others is it a no go and thus the potential slave and I would part company (Example would be if her hard limits included house work). In such a case we would be mismatched so there would be little point in continuing. Because I can be flexible I work on the basis I can always find a regular casual play person suitable for things such as needle play. In the end once a slave is collared she would be in a TPE situation. I have found that 99% of a slave's hard limits are similar to my own so in effect her hard limits are mine so there is no conflict and she can actually say that as far as she and I go, she has no limits. For me this is an easy one because the important dynamic is the smooth running of Bruin Cottage.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/14/2010 6:20:55 AM >

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 6:19:06 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		duplicated



_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 6:25:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		omg! you discovered my hard limit!!!



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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 6:36:47 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Sheep herding????  Hmmmmm House work?    Ha. 

< Message edited by IronBear -- 6/14/2010 6:37:02 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 7:36:30 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

So, if slave has any hard limits and if the Master agreed not to ever break them, can this relationship still be considered TPE?

Yes - Taking the perspective that the 'slave is the 'power' in the relationship since the slave set the relationship parameters. The 'master' only has 'total power' only by exceeding the limits, to end the relationship

No - From the perspective of the 'master' since pragmatically the only power he/she is conditional to meeting the slave's performance expectations.

Maybe - If the relationship partners have discussed and committed to their personal definitions of what their definitions assigned to the words 'Total' - 'Power' - 'Exchange'.

No Clue - Considering reality is not based on academic theory and emotions within a relationship can not be documented definitely nor accurately by an army of academics or poets; the nuances of any dynamic are not understood and can not be explained - only experienced.

quote:

Do any limits exist in TPE?

Yes - but who has the 'total power', and who is 'exchanging' it, is not obvious and can not be determined by anyone outside the relationship.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 6/14/2010 7:38:35 AM >

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 7:47:02 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		SNot, you are not factoring in mind the limits of Owners here. TPE by no means suggest that one has to engage in every single freakish kink or fetish out there. You are making things far more complex in many ways.






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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 7:52:49 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

If eating shit is clearly established as hard limit, can the relationship still be considered TPE or TPE means absolutely no limits?

Yes it can.
quote:

The question for slaves who think that they are in TPE - would you actually eat a turd if the Master ordered it?

This is a bit of a weird question.  There are two different answers depending on how you are asking the question.  If the relationship is established with the caveat of no consumption of the poo, then the dominant has broken the 'contract' entered into anyhoo.  If the relationship is established and that's not been discussed previously as a hard limitation, then I'd have to answer yes.

quote:

So I am asking these people, if they are in TPE - would they do it in spite of absolutely hating it - if the Master or Mistress demanded it?
I'd go further and just leave scat out and just replace it with 'whatever'.  The answer is yes.

the.dark.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:00:03 AM   
Fetrotic


Posts: 1
Joined: 6/6/2010
Status: offline 		Hard limits should exist and be respected in any and all relationships.  The first one that comes to mind would be puplic sex and humiliation in public places.  This is a common kink for many people, but it does have risks.......getting aressted!  I can understand why someone would have this limit and not want to partake in it.  I think if a hard limit is so extreme that it could result in death, that too, should be understandable as too extreme! 

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:03:43 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fetrotic
I think if a hard limit is so extreme that it could result in death, that too, should be understandable as too extreme! 


Best not ever risk an orgasm then.

the.dark.

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RC&dc


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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:06:21 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Hard limits should exist and be respected in any and all relationships.  The first one that comes to mind would be puplic sex and humiliation in public places.  This is a common kink for many people, but it does have risks.......getting aressted!  I can understand why someone would have this limit and not want to partake in it.  I think if a hard limit is so extreme that it could result in death, that too, should be understandable as too extreme! 


I am really fascinated how much common sense and good judgment newcomers to this website have!


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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:12:17 AM   
SocratesNot


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Joined: 5/17/2010
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quote:

Best not ever risk an orgasm then.


What you said is a HORRIBLE relativization.

Yes you can die from orgasm. But you can die from ANYTHING.

There are extremely dangerous things and orgasm is not one of them.

For some activities chances to die are 100%, for some others 50%, for some just 5% and finally for some things chances to die are less than
0,00001 % - Orgasm is one of them.

I had at least 3000 orgasms in my life and probably over 6000. Not only I am alive and well, but I never felt bad or ill in any way from having an orgasm.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/14/2010 8:14:33 AM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:14:11 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
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Status: offline 		Who stops to count orgasms? Do you have a clicker by the bed?

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:15:27 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		I'm not counting. This is just an estimate - a very conservative one 

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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:16:27 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I guess it might be easier to know your orgasm count as a man. Since a woman has multiples, it would be impossible to make an estimate.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:24:43 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Simple Yes.

When one takes on a Slave.. you take all that exists and all that it becomes. You can't change what it isn't or can't become. I buy my car and well it doesn't do well to take it boating. I can try but it's not likely I will have much use for the car at the bottom of the lake. I just might have to get a new car. Use a slave in a way that is a clear hard limit and you will very likely end up without or at the least something less than what you had.

Now the concern I have is that you can't readily determine before such a relationship begins all the Hard Limits that may exist. The obvious are often there but sometimes things can be even more subtle. This is why I have established a personal Code that Limits me with regards to my relationships between my girls. It's simply "Do thy will, Harm None". In short, My choices will be limited by anything that will cause harm upon Alandra or Kyra. This is not to say that some actions may not invertently cause harm but, I will not intentionaly cause harm upon them. Their trust in me to live up to this code is critical for our relationship.

Having said that... I precieve hard limits different than most. I see hard limits as something that is imposed by the individual on the relationship. In my relationship, Alandra and Kyra have not imposed an limits. But, We do have Boundaries. These are the limits that are they regardless of our desire to have them or not. They can't fly no matter how much they flap their arms. We must live within their boundaries as I have to live with my own.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:30:20 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Best not ever risk an orgasm then.


What you said is a HORRIBLE relativization.

Yes you can die from orgasm. But you can die from ANYTHING.

There are extremely dangerous things and orgasm is not one of them.

For some activities chances to die are 100%, for some others 50%, for some just 5% and finally for some things chances to die are less than
0,00001 % - Orgasm is one of them.

I had at least 3000 orgasms in my life and probably over 6000. Not only I am alive and well, but I never felt bad or ill in any way from having an orgasm.


I cannot for the life of me remember where I heard the data.  It was some medical moment on the box definately in the last two months that orgasm is the third biggest cause of brain aneurysms.  Second was passing a stool.  I cannot remember the 1st!

The point of my facitious response was that the statement which you think is so wonderful with great judgement is definately, as you say, a terrrible relativization in itself.  A hard limit doesn't have to be so extreme just to be a hard limit - that is just for shock tactics and the morailty police really.  You cannot measure limits by how extreme they might seem to be.

the.dark.


< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/14/2010 8:31:09 AM >

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:32:49 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Who stops to count orgasms? Do you have a clicker by the bed?



lol... why yes... matter of fact I do. It's kind of a joke at the moment of why it's there! One must have fun in life!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:33:35 AM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		My first thouht is that you should actually do something before you even consider the idea of TPE.

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RE: Do hard limits exist in TPE ? - 6/14/2010 8:35:05 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Who stops to count orgasms? Do you have a clicker by the bed?



lol... why yes... matter of fact I do. It's kind of a joke at the moment of why it's there! One must have fun in life!


Hey, whatever makes you happy!! I lost count years ago....:)

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