RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (Full Version)

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eyesopened -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 4:55:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
I think he is referring to your numerous previous claims of belief in a personal God. That would make you a deist, one who believes in God (doesn't really matter which one).

ETA, Being a believer does not require affiliation with any particular group or organization.


Ah.. thanks for the clarification.  Still don't know where he got the idea that I have ever claimed to know everything (or anything at all).  I think in my numerous previous claims of faith I have also indicated the importance of questioning, seeking, asking, and learning.  *shrug*

If it helps a person deal the the thought of their own mortality to consider if or how one might continue after death, where's the harm?  I'm talking about a personal belief, not a campaign.




eyesopened -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 5:44:23 AM)

Julia:
I wanted to thank you for having the courage to start this thread.  It would have been nice to have had a discussion of the "what if" aspect of death. 

It is impossible to have any discussion of anything that even hints at spirituality.  Those in opposition will not be happy until all discussions of this sort cease altogether it seems.  I will never again post my thoughts on these subjects.  *smiles*  So they can all get together and celebrate a 'win' on their side.  (Yes, I'm a giver)

But your post did cause me to ask some questions, do some seeking, find some answers, learn a few things.  For that, I thank you.





GotSteel -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 5:25:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
If it helps a person deal the the thought of their own mortality to consider if or how one might continue after death, where's the harm?  I'm talking about a personal belief, not a campaign.

The harm stems from the concept that it's reasonable to just believe shit because you want to.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 5:32:45 PM)

Awesome, so this means when I die, time is gonna reset and the BIG BANG is gonna happen all over again distroying this lovely blue and green planet. Wait, all this does not really exist to begin with, it's just one big virtual reality inside my own mind. lol




FirmhandKY -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 5:55:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Julia:
I wanted to thank you for having the courage to start this thread.  It would have been nice to have had a discussion of the "what if" aspect of death.

I agree.  I wanted to thank her again, even if it was quixotic.


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

It is impossible to have any discussion of anything that even hints at spirituality.  Those in opposition will not be happy until all discussions of this sort cease altogether it seems.  I will never again post my thoughts on these subjects.  *smiles*  So they can all get together and celebrate a 'win' on their side.  (Yes, I'm a giver)

Please don't, eyes.  Please continue to post.  I find you one of the better posters on the subject.  Perhaps you don't realize how many others don't post because of the utter stupidity and vicious attacks that some posters engage in, and therefore how alone they sometimes feel.

The attackers presume to be the experts, and claim "reason, logic and science", yet their words and attacks expose their hypocrisy and their lack of the very things that they claim.

I suspect that more people who read your words are rooting for you than you suspect, and that you have a stronger impact than you realize.

Firm




vincentML -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 7:54:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
If it helps a person deal the the thought of their own mortality to consider if or how one might continue after death, where's the harm?  I'm talking about a personal belief, not a campaign.

The harm stems from the concept that it's reasonable to just believe shit because you want to.



Ummm... wouldn't it be more unreasonable to believe shit b/c you don't want to? Like, I don't want to believe in heaven but I better hedge my bet.

My point is that it is very reasonable to believe shit b/c you want to if it solves other problems for you over which you really have no control or if getting at the "truth" seems beyond possible. Just for example suppose you have a large, extended family who are fairly into Christianity and have big, warm, wonderful, loving get togethers for old-fashioned, traditional Christmas and Easter celebrations. Can't you see that a member of that family may believe in Christianity without examining his beliefs b/c he wants to share in the tradition? No harm, no foul.

I am exploring motive here and suggesting that rationality is not always/often the basis for belief. I think we agree on that. But you see belief without rationality as a negative. I do also when it is the basis for public policy or group action. Yanno, inquisitions, crusades, prosyletizing, etc.

But on an individual basis, as eyesopened asked, what's the harm? Faith is the antithesis of Reason. You and I choose the path of Reason. Others choose the path of Faith. I do not understand how they can believe in a Supernatural whatever. Spirits, demons, angels, saints, ghosts, soul ... come on! Not for me, but to each his own. * shrugs * wtf?




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/19/2010 9:59:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I suspect that more people who read your words are rooting for you than you suspect, and that you have a stronger impact than you realize.


I don't "root" for either side, but I always look forward to reading what she has to say on  the subject. She always adds to the discussion, and I'd miss her voice if it went silent.




FirmhandKY -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/20/2010 7:31:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I suspect that more people who read your words are rooting for you than you suspect, and that you have a stronger impact than you realize.


I don't "root" for either side, but I always look forward to reading what she has to say on  the subject. She always adds to the discussion, and I'd miss her voice if it went silent.

Fair enough, Panda.

She brings good stuff to the table, and it would be a shame if she stopped.

Firm




xxblushesxx -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/20/2010 7:54:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Julia:
I wanted to thank you for having the courage to start this thread.  It would have been nice to have had a discussion of the "what if" aspect of death.

I agree.  I wanted to thank her again, even if it was quixotic.


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

It is impossible to have any discussion of anything that even hints at spirituality.  Those in opposition will not be happy until all discussions of this sort cease altogether it seems.  I will never again post my thoughts on these subjects.  *smiles*  So they can all get together and celebrate a 'win' on their side.  (Yes, I'm a giver)

Please don't, eyes.  Please continue to post.  I find you one of the better posters on the subject.  Perhaps you don't realize how many others don't post because of the utter stupidity and vicious attacks that some posters engage in, and therefore how alone they sometimes feel.

The attackers presume to be the experts, and claim "reason, logic and science", yet their words and attacks expose their hypocrisy and their lack of the very things that they claim.

I suspect that more people who read your words are rooting for you than you suspect, and that you have a stronger impact than you realize.

Firm



Quoted for Truth.




GotSteel -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/20/2010 8:58:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
My point is that it is very reasonable to believe shit b/c you want to if it solves other problems for you over which you really have no control or if getting at the "truth" seems beyond possible. Just for example suppose you have a large, extended family who are fairly into Christianity and have big, warm, wonderful, loving get togethers for old-fashioned, traditional Christmas and Easter celebrations. Can't you see that a member of that family may believe in Christianity without examining his beliefs b/c he wants to share in the tradition? No harm, no foul.

The sentence of mine you're quoting is my attempt to restate the point I made earlier in a little simpler language that faith isn't a valid way of obtaining knowledge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I am exploring motive here and suggesting that rationality is not always/often the basis for belief. I think we agree on that. But you see belief without rationality as a negative. I do also when it is the basis for public policy or group action. But on an individual basis, as eyesopened asked, what's the harm?

Why do you see belief without rationality as negative in public policy and group action?




GotSteel -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/20/2010 9:17:54 AM)

On the topic of atheists trying to convert people, would Flying Spaghetti Monster Evangelism count?

P.S. I just can't stop laughing about the theory of intelligent falling.




GotSteel -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/20/2010 9:28:43 AM)

Sorry, that went in the wrong thread, I had them both open at the same time.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: What Happens When You Die? Evidence Suggests Time Simply Reboots (6/20/2010 2:25:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Maybe it is because we have reflected and investigated different concepts, and to paraphrase another poster above, decided it is all nonsense.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarwinsLilHelper

Any School that would grant a phD based on the fact you can spell the words quantum foam and String Theory (And 10 other Physics sounding words.) is probably the kind of school where you obtain a phD in 15 minutes or so over the internet and get to print out your own diploma. It's the kind of Diploma that looks pretty cool thumb tacked to your bedroom wall but smells slightly like fry-o-later grease.


I'm glad to know that you two are the final fonts of all wisdom, and that no one can advance the boundaries of science and consciousness beyond what you already know.  Because you two have all the answers already.

Must be nice to be such a "super-geniuses".

Oh, yeah ...

Holographic principle

In a larger and more speculative sense, the theory suggests that the entire universe  can be seen as a two-dimensional information structure "painted" on the cosmological horizon, such that the three dimensions we observe are only an effective description at macroscopic scales and at low energies.

The physical universe is widely seen to be composed of "matter" and "energy". In his 2003 article published in Scientific American magazine, Jacob Bekenstein summarized a current trend started by John Archibald Wheeler, which suggests scientists may "regard the physical world as made of information, with energy and matter as incidentals." Bekenstein quotes William Blake and questions whether the Holographic principle implies that seeing "the world in a grain of sand," could be more than "poetic license".


The Holographic Universe

The holographic universe is an idea presented in the book "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot that explores the metaphysic implications that underline quantum mechanics supersymmetry  and suggests the idea that the universe is a hologram. After examining the work of physicist David Bohm and neurophysiologist Karl Pribram, both of whom independently arrived at holographic theories or models of the universe, the book argues that a holographic model could possibly explain supersymmetry  and also various paranormal and anomalous phenomena, and provide a basis for mystical experience.

Quantum mind

The quantum mind or quantum consciousness hypothesis proposes that classical mechanics cannot fully explain consciousness, and suggests that quantum mechanical phenomena, such as quantum entanglement and superposition, may play an important part in the brain's function, and could form the basis of an explanation of consciousness. There are several quite distinct quantum mind theories, ...

So, the interesting speculation is that as the research into quantum physics and string theory advances, there is a chance that we may find that "consciousness" is not wholly a chemical brain reaction, but may be also based on information storage that extends outside the body into the wider quantum universe, in a holographic sense. 

If so, then this could explain many of the more difficult to explain "psychic" experiences and other dimly understand aspects of human experience, especially in death, near death and religious and psychic experiences. 

This could even lead to the scientific possibility of a "undying soul" which consists of an imprint that human consciousness has on the underlying structure of the universe.

Or that the universe itself is one huge, conscious information storage and manipulation system.  (Can you say "god"?)

Of course, this is just speculation, but what I find interesting is that some serious scholars are positing some of those possibilities, and that there may actually be scientific answers to "the meaning of life" and the existence of "god" and the "soul".

You two, of course, may continue to be content and not be interested, since you are already have all the answers.

Me, I like to dream of possibilities, sometimes.

Firm



Poisonally I think its all hogwash. Consciousness is just chemical/electrical, and when you die, ashes to ashes. However IF it there is more to it then the answer lies in quantum mechanics and Leonard Susskinds theories on black hole event horizons and their extrapolation to the "shell" of the universe. Morgan Freeman's series on SC, "Through the Wormhole" explains these theories as well as anything Ive read or seen.




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