RE: Why Just Pros? (Full Version)

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xxblushesxx -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 5:44:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Maybe I've got this thing all wrong. I have no issues with women who choose to charge, but look down on the men who are so driven by unmet fetishes that they need to pay.

Why? There are all types of reasons to use a pro:

1. it's a business transaction; no need for messy emotional involvement. (although it does happen, unfortunately.)
2. Some guys are curious and want to know what it's like.
3. Some gentleman are socially awkward, and this is the only way they can get a woman to pay attention to them.
4. For some, it's just an evening's entertainment, much like going to the casino, or a night out dancing.

I'm sure there are many more reasons, but these are the ones I'm aware of. I see no reason to look down on any of these men.  



xxblushesxx -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 5:53:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

Hi AQSM,

you kind of proved the woman's point. You took a great deal of time to trash pro-dommes and everything about them. You really referred to the women to the lowest degree you could think of then at the end tacked on one little sentence calling the men nothing but Johns and referring to the women as trash. And NOTE: you called the men Johns whether they went to "professional women" or "trash." So you actually said very little (if anything) derogatory about the men.


 Those who see "Pro" Domme's who are looking for walking piggy banks and cash cows are as useless in my book as the "Pro" themself.

I find them EQUALLY distasteful. I think both are trash.

Does that clear that up for you? No one is getting a Pass. In fact in most cases I think less of the Johns then I do the "Pro's" because the "Pro" is cashing in on what is basically someone paying them to treat them like shit, the John on the other hand is paying them to act that way.

Such is life though, I donlt believe I can stop it but my opinion on it stands.

QSM


You do realize that being a walking piggy bank is some men's kink? They get off on it. Who are any of us to judge this kink? Most of us here have kinks that many others would find distasteful. I wouldn't want to be called trash because of it.

And yes, I've dealt with these gentlemen before, not because I went out looking for it, but because, for whatever reason, they chose me to satisfy that kink. It was; a. fun b. surprising, c. exciting. I'd love to do it again sometime!



LadyCimarron -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 6:02:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

And yes, I've dealt with these gentlemen before, not because I went out looking for it, but because, for whatever reason, they chose me to satisfy that kink. It was; a. fun b. surprising, c. exciting. I'd love to do it again sometime!


You make a valid point. I hear from men all the time that want this kink. I have never taken any of them up on it because 1. Its not my kink and 2. I don't really understand it and 3. If I take money from somebody I feel a natural obligation towards them and I don't like that feeling. But if its a kink, there is a demand for it and somebody is going to supply it.



DarkSteven -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 6:05:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Why? There are all types of reasons to use a pro:

1. it's a business transaction; no need for messy emotional involvement. (although it does happen, unfortunately.)
2. Some guys are curious and want to know what it's like.
3. Some gentleman are socially awkward, and this is the only way they can get a woman to pay attention to them.
4. For some, it's just an evening's entertainment, much like going to the casino, or a night out dancing.

I'm sure there are many more reasons, but these are the ones I'm aware of. I see no reason to look down on any of these men.  


Thanks for your post.  Never looked at it that way before...



AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 6:11:46 AM)

@xxblushesxx

So Okay I get your point. Maybe a choice few of them, but still I believe the idea is exclusive to the whole. This is one of those things that I have no real desire to get to know them all on a case by case basis and thus hold my reservation to the majority that I see the way I do.

Perhaps this makes me some sort of Bigot... I can live with that. This is one of those things that I really just have little patience for. Now mind you I did say I have seen it done and done well and I have no issue with that.

Many of the people who have claimed being "Pro" so far on this thread.... I had no real idea and thus would not have put them in the derogator category anyway.

That being said one would ask if my impression has changed of CollarMe "Pro's" and the answer is No, I read enough Male sub posts who tell me that there is more of the ones I find to be Trash, than there are those who prove the exception and thus provide the rule.

QSM



domiguy -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 6:30:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

That is horrible, horrible business ethics, especially in an industry where your client's physical, mental and emotional health and safety are literally in your hands.  Would you voluntarily do business with a doctor, a plumber, a building contractor or an auto mechanic who operated this way? 


Please stop this type of an argument.

Pro dommes and prostitutes are not doctors, plumbers or building contractors.

They have virtually no skills whatsoever. They are people that usually through great fault of their own have decided to rely on the lowest common denominator of human capabilities to eek out a living.

Others say they have some sort of respect for hookers and prostitutes. I have none. Zero. Zilch.

Lets reward someone because they were lucky enough to be born with some holes some sort of a genetic predisposition towards attraction that people find to be palatable.

Let's applaud the dumbfucks, let's praise those who have done nothing to better themselves. Let's cheer on those that sell their holes.

Way to go!!! I imagine those that have shared in your life expected so much less from you.




cloudboy -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 6:41:27 AM)

quote:

doctors, plumbers or building contractors.


I do agree that its a sex industry job.



cloudboy -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 6:55:12 AM)

quote:

So, why aren't the clients held up to the same kind of scrutiny? Why aren't the same kind of slurs thrown about for those paying for the session as those who are receiving payment?



Basically the common male complaint is the abundance of business advertising on a "personals" website.

So to make this apples to apples --- the sub would have to offer a "lifestyle" Domme money for a scene, and then in theory she might get mad or feel used that she was bought or expected to sell herself.

Its hard to imagine a vanilla dating site wherein -- say -- a high percentage of the female registrants were advertising escort services.

Lastly your post does not identify what's actually in play. Men aren't mad at professional Dommes, rather they are frustrated by the lack of lifestyle women out there who share their kink. Basically its a bad game of musical chairs, and Pro Domme's are exhibit A that there are only about three seats for every ten (10) men.

Think about people in general. They can blame themselves for a bad situation OR they can blame / scapegoat someone else.

So back to your OP, let's blame the subs with fat wallets for the Pro Dommes...... without them -- there would be no professional domination AT ALL! Those fucking rich wankers have TO GO!! RIGHT NOW. GET OFF THE CM WEBSITE AND STAY OFF!

P.S. This is not a very serious post.



DomImus -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:08:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
So, how is it that there are two people involved in the business transaction, yet one of them is approved of and the other is not?  It seems to Me, too often, there is one standard for the woman and a completely different one for the man.


I think you do a disservice to the very good point you are making by painting it along gender lines. There is a double standard - one standard for the seller and another for the buyer. On one hand I see it as you do -  a business transaction. If A is willing to beat B for a price and B is willing to pay A for said beating and agrees to the price then their business is between the two of them. I strongly dislike telling other people what services they can sell or how to spend their money.

On the other hand... ever seen that show on HBO called "G String Divas"? A behind the scenes glimpse of the stripper industry. Watching those strippers do their thing on stage for a wad of singles only to watch them go back in the dressing room to count their money and mock and insult their clients was thoroughly disgusting to watch. That whole mentality is why I support their right to their business ventures but still have a pretty dim view of them overall. What a stripper sells and what a pro domme sells are not too terribly different if you think about it.

Do it with someone you want to do it with for free. Once you start doing it with someone who you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole if they weren't paying for it then it puts everything into an entirely different light.

My two cents.





allthatjaz -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:25:33 AM)




quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Others say they have some sort of respect for hookers and prostitutes. I have none. Zero. Zilch.

Lets reward someone because they were lucky enough to be born with some holes some sort of a genetic predisposition towards attraction that people find to be palatable.

Let's applaud the dumbfucks, let's praise those who have done nothing to better themselves. Let's cheer on those that sell their holes.




It was obvious that this would be bait for domiguy.

The thing is, they don't actually care about your disrespect. They don't care that you think they are 'lucky' to have something you don't posses. They don't care that you blow angry bubbles out of your proverbial hole. They don't even think your shocking because your not. Sad, yes. Angry, probably. Pathetic, most certainly.




IronBear -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:40:11 AM)




cloudboy -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:43:11 AM)

quote:

Do it with someone you want to do it with for free. Once you start doing it with someone who you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole if they weren't paying for it then it puts everything into an entirely different light.


Real sexual relationships are not hard to find. There are plenty of adults of both sexes who are willing to have sex if someone treats them well, and asks. But there lies the problem. Some people do not want an equal, sharing relationship. They do not want to be nice. They do not want to ask. They like the power involved in buying a human being who can be made to do almost anything.

That's one element, and you have identified the other: the seller being disgusted by the buyer and loathing them after the fact.



Jeffff -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:46:39 AM)

While I am not a vitriolic as my hop-bonded brother. I maintain  Pro "Domme" is a misnomer.

It is business, it is not domination.

To suggest it is more pure than any other business is silly.



domiguy -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:51:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz




quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Others say they have some sort of respect for hookers and prostitutes. I have none. Zero. Zilch.

Lets reward someone because they were lucky enough to be born with some holes some sort of a genetic predisposition towards attraction that people find to be palatable.

Let's applaud the dumbfucks, let's praise those who have done nothing to better themselves. Let's cheer on those that sell their holes.




It was obvious that this would be bait for domiguy.

The thing is, they don't actually care about your disrespect. They don't care that you think they are 'lucky' to have something you don't posses. They don't care that you blow angry bubbles out of your proverbial hole. They don't even think your shocking because your not. Sad, yes. Angry, probably. Pathetic, most certainly.




The question is who really gives a flying fuck about the pros. They hang on the bottom rung of the ladder.

I am pathetic.

You are a role model.



PeonForHer -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 7:58:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjazx

I think its presumed by many, that men who go and see a professional Mistresses are often married or in a committed relationship. Some are and some are not.
Many single guys go to see a professional so that they can actually taste what submission or pain feels like from a female hand. Many of these men have tried, often for years, to get a bit of play time. They have often invested huge man hours into trying to get noticed and often unsuccessfully. You only have to go to a Fem Domme club to see a huge overflow of wallflowers that turn up week after week, month after month in the hope of getting the smallest amount of attention from a fem Domme. Many will go home disappointed time and time again.
The shy guys amongst these wall flowers don't really have a hope in hell. Should they continue until they are old ? What on earth is disrespectful in them fulfilling that fantasy? Not all guys are young and virile and built like gladiators. A lot of these male subs are elderly, obese, are extremely shy or just lack confidence because of the number of times they have been rejected.

Its ok for a Dom to look down on a male sub that seeks a professional. Male Doms are far more likely to find a submissive play mate than a male sub is of finding a fem Domme. They need to put themselves into another mans shoes. The shoes of a man that has spent many frustrated years living a fantasy in their head because rl turns up nothing.


That's very, very sad.  Speaking of putting oneself in another man's shoes: older generations of men will have had the fantasy of D/s for much of their lives without having more than the slimmest of chances of making it reality.  Until the 1970s, the same was true even of gay men, at least in the UK.  How unbelievably miserable.



MsAlisedeSade -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 8:08:50 AM)

I am here to socialize I let people know I am a Pro because I am not interested in romantic pursuits. I have developed a business plan, retained an attorney, done a market analysis,advertise on some the top sites for bdsm in the country. I have brushed up on my skills before entering into this, taken a first aid course learned bastinado and I am working on mastering florentine. So I guess that means I have no skills. Sadly some can not say that. But no where in the equation comes the "use of my holes". The men I see are more educated about bdsm when they leave my door than when they arrive so I do not understand how seeing a pro does not train subs properly or harms this community as long as the pro is reputable. I don't not beleive in the hey I have money so let's play philosophy because I had and still have plenty of my own before I decided to go Pro. An interview is required before you are in my presence. I feel alot of sympathy for people who are decieved by those who lie to try and squeeze money out of people I do not think the extortionist should remain. I am a libertine and make no apologies for it. I see the same ugliness coming out of some of the people on this site as the religious zealots who try to persecute Us/us. To answer the question people view the men who pay as some sort of victim instead of adult who has made a decision on what they feel is right for them. Morality is a personal code of conduct. It is up to an individual to decide what is best for them and I don't think it should be forced upon you by others.



PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 8:12:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

AQSM, your last paragraph is exactly the point.  I think there's a hypocrisy on this subject.  Folks are more than willing to make derogatory remarks about pros, but it's very rare for them to have the same attitudes toward the clients.  In fact, there are a number of occasions where the very suggestion of 'go to a pro' is often made.  There are no comments about that person being a 'subbiejohn' or any other such thing.  They aren't called fakes for engaging in BDSM due to a financial transaction.  No shouts of scammersub.  No indignation from the masses.  Zilch.

So, how is it that there are two people involved in the business transaction, yet one of them is approved of and the other is not?  It seems to Me, too often, there is one standard for the woman and a completely different one for the man.



I dont really know the answer about that, but I agree and on a personal level - as mentioned at times in past posts - it didnt matter to me how people thought about me having worked for a temporary time as a pro sub,whilst opinions can get ugly about it my personal view is that I actually usually prefered the clients as

a) they didnt lie about why meeting me (no pretending about being interested in me for a relationship just to fuck off once they had all they came for in the first place)
b) no lying about "i love you so much" when in reality he was married and just wanted to fool around his wifes back...
c) no hurt feelings of being used as quite frankly, as others said, he booked a service and paid for it, so both parties were happy at the end.

Whilst I am glad that this was only a rather short time of my life and not the case these days as such I have far less disapponting feelings about any of those meetings compared to the ones I met private as they were simply (to 99%) upfront about what they want.

Why this different view is, I also want to remind that the same happens without the pro aspect...

if a woman sleeps with many men she is a slut, if a man does sleep with many women he is a great stud...[8|]



Andalusite -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 8:13:51 AM)

I think most of the anger isn't actually toward pro-Dommes, but rather for "false advertising" and "bait and switch. Bondage.com insists that pros use a symbol to mark them, and I've never seen any negative posts about pros in the forums there (and there are several who participate, or at least used to). I have to agree with cloudboy that coming on here to advertise professional services would be very similar to an escort advertising on Match or E-Harmony. If a high percentage of the ads were actually for pros there, a lot of men would probably get angry, especially if they were not up-front about it, and only brought it up after a few weeks and several e-mails had gone by.

I don't have any interest in slamming men who patronise pro-Dommes, but I have mentioned before that it is a warning sign when I consider one to be personally involved with. If he is currently seeing a pro-Domme, I'll assume he isn't actually interested in a relationship. If he saw one a couple of times years ago, no big deal. If all of his experience is with pro-Dommes, I'll be suspicious that he has no relationship skills or social skills, and is basically undateable. If he has had LTRs with vanilla women, I would ask questions about whether or not he asked her to participate with him, if he went to a pro while they were dating without her knowledge, and what his expectations are. I think that it is easy for someone who only sees Pros to get a very unrealistic, fantasy view of Dommes, expect them to be glamorous 24/7, not be interested in submission unless she's dressed up, and very likely bottom (sometimes in a very dominant masochistic way) rather than submit. The last one isn't automatically a dealbreaker, but I won't consider someone to be my submissive unless they are actually ceding authority.

I generally don't say negative things about pro-Dommes, and have a good friend who was a pro-switch for a while. If a pro is lying or just not forthright in her profile or initial e-mail, I don't think well of her, and I think men have a right to be angry. When a man offered me money, I was very offended by his attempt to turn me into a pro, when I had made it clear in my profile that I was looking for a relationship (which he was disqualified for due to distance). [:'(]

A while back, a man stalked a pro-Domme he had been a client of, and verbally attacked her submissive who was screening her mail (on orders). I thought very poorly of him, and I agree that it is important for pros and clients to maintain boundaries. When I worked in customer service, I genuinely wanted to be helpful. I had some repeat clients who I got to know, and we had interesting conversations, rather than just discussing the merchandise for a few minutes. I did actually care about them, and I think it helped me get repeat business. However, I didn't feel nearly as strongly toward them as I did toward my friends or the guys I dated. They were more on the "friendly acquaintances" level.



AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 8:19:27 AM)

Actualy I don't believe this is a Universal Truth.

I find women who are open sexually to be wonderful people, especially if in doing so they sleep with men who otherwise would not have the opportunity. Nothing to me is hotter than a woman who shacks with duds.

I find men who fuck everything that moves to be slutty and dirty and well low quality.

I really have no idea why I have this reverse aspect to human sexuality... perhaps it is because my own sexual history is something I look poorly upon for the reasons I did what I did and how I got to do what I did.

That and I think of women who are free with their sexuality to be great even if they don't sleep with me a woman who enjoys sex for the sake of sex is just amazing to me.

QSM



PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: Why Just Pros? (6/17/2010 8:25:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
So what qualifies someone as a Professional? Who gets to determine that? How do you do a Background check on that?


Whilst it isnt a proper background check, some pages do a rating system such as by ebay...so if a meeting took place the guy did an official booking via that page and afterwards he and I could both leave feedback about the person...

once I started to neglect that fact as I had met that person several times and it was (what a surprise) BIG mistake....so sadly I wasn't able to write that outcome in his profile, however there are pages out there where pros are rated from people who met them and there are also pages out there where pros can have a look if a potential client is reated as a nasty bug...not that this always helps of course, but it can help.

Also those ratings can sometimes give a pretty good indication what kind of person you are about to meet, eg I met my c-dom there (casual dom) who had introduced me into bdsm in the first place (it was not on my offer and I had never considered to ever go down that way...however that did not bother him and he nevertheless tied me up rappidly as he had the impressions from my pics that |I could be submissive...and very unexpectedly I found myself tied up and he introduced me deeper and deeper into it every time we met again). from his feedback I was excited to meet him and the profile described him pretty accurate (though I didnt expect that he would be a Dom)...

so there are some methods out their to try to help in that process...



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