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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:20:08 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Your choice.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 641
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:21:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I suppose you could say you have no faith in yourself. And believe such to be true. Where does confidence come from?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 642
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:30:46 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

A question for you, young lady...Are you possibly an Athiest or agnostic due to your leanings towards Taoism?


Many Chinese Taoists worship ancestor spirits, and they have an entire Pantheon of gods....

I don't have a pantheon of gods... i have no ancestors I worship.....and I am not Chinese, so if I tried to worship their ancestors sitting here in California, that would be odd, but you know, Scientology is based here.... so it would be no more strange than that I suppose.

I consider myself agnostic in that I do not seek to define a deity... my small human brain can't compute it. I have no faith that there is anyone else that is smarter than me and that they got all their magic answers from a burning bush, or something like that. I think religion tends to try to own god, you know, he is working for their side.....

Me, I feel strongly that there is a spiritual essence in all of creation.... I think it is possible that the Earth is a living organism, it may even have some sort of consciousness... which was why I provided this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_ontological_proof

If there are beings that are "higher" than we are, more evolved, etc.... consciousnesses that we have no way of measuring or defining, well these would be like gods to us. It would not need to be supernatural (and I do not think aliens planted life here either)....

I suppose I am open for many possibilities, but I do not believe in anything except balance, moderation, humility, and kindness... and to try to be happy and not resist the natural order of things

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:34:36 AM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I suppose you could say you have no faith in yourself. And believe such to be true. Where does confidence come from?


For my own amusement I'll assume this was directed at me.

You are absolutely right I have no faith in myself at all.  There is nothing about me that requires faith to maintain.  I have no beliefs about that.  Its a fact.

Confidence comes from knowing oneself and seeking what is true and good.  That is also not a belief.  It is a fact.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 644
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:35:52 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No it doesnt.

Is There a Christian Atheism? Examples of Atheism among Christians:

As a descendent of Judaism, Christianity is also a religion founded upon belief in a single creator god. Atheism is not just rejected, but considered a sin. There are a few people who consider themselves Christians even though they have rejected belief in the existence of any gods, including the Christian creator god. They argue that they are Christian atheists in the same way that some Jews are also atheists: they are Christian for largely cultural reasons, but continue to maintain some religious observances — just without references to any gods.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm

For someone who is so obsessed with definitions, your logic is really falling short here. Someone can claim to be anything they want, but that doesn't make it true if they don't fit the definition of that which they claim to be. Sometimes I like to claim that I am a duckbilled platypus. It is the only animal that is both a marsupial and a mammal. I like the idea and would like to be one. Claiming to be one doesn't make it so.

The very definition of Christian doctrine was determined by the Nicene Creed in about 300? 400? or so AD. The exceptions are statistically insignificant and fodder for academics. I'll bet that most of these non-Christians who are claiming to be one have never studied theology and never heard of the Council of Nicea. They know nothing of the history of the faith which they claim to adopt.

It's the equivalent of some dumb-ass American who dons a rob, grows a beard, and then claims to be a Muslim.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 6/22/2010 10:40:33 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 645
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:39:10 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		In the bottom of the post, on the right hand side, you will note that each post has a name there. Unless a poster indicates otherwise, thats the person to whom the post is in reply too.

Odd. I have known many confident people who lacked the abilities they were confident about.

Main Entry: 1con·fi·dence
Pronunciation: \ˈkän-fə-dən(t)s, -ˌden(t)s\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a : a feeling or consciousness of one's powers or of reliance on one's circumstances <had perfect confidence in her ability to succeed> <met the risk with brash confidence> b : faith or belief that one will act in a right, proper, or effective way <have confidence in a leader>

This is the definition as i understand it.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 646
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:42:14 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No it doesnt.

Is There a Christian Atheism? Examples of Atheism among Christians:

As a descendent of Judaism, Christianity is also a religion founded upon belief in a single creator god. Atheism is not just rejected, but considered a sin. There are a few people who consider themselves Christians even though they have rejected belief in the existence of any gods, including the Christian creator god. They argue that they are Christian atheists in the same way that some Jews are also atheists: they are Christian for largely cultural reasons, but continue to maintain some religious observances — just without references to any gods.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm

For someone who is so obsessed with definitions, your logic is really falling short here. Someone can claim to be anything they want, but that doesn't make it true if they don't fit the definition of that which they claim to be. Sometimes I like to claim that I am a duckbilled platypus. It is the only animal that is both a marsupial and a mammal. I like the idea and would like to be one. Claiming to be one doesn't make it so.

The very definition of Christian doctrine was determined by the Nicene Creed in about 300? 400? or so AD. The exceptions are statistically insignificant and fodder for academics. I'll bet that most of these non-Christians who are claiming to be one have never studied theology and never heard of the Council of Nicea. The no nothing of the history of the faith which they claim to adopt.

It's the equivalent of some dumb-ass American who dons a rob, grows a beard, and then claims to be a Muslim.


A christian atheist denies the existence of god but follows the teachings of Jesus. Do i agree? Doesnt matter. Its what they believe. Just as you believe what it is you believe when you state you are an atheist. You will notice no where in any post have i said you were wrong in your beliefs... only that you have some.

So, please, do continue to twist and turn this. Denounce that others have the right to believe as they wish while you insist you have the right to your own.

~Edited in an attempt to clarify

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/22/2010 10:47:56 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 647
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:43:15 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In the bottom of the post, on the right hand side, you will note that each post has a name there. Unless a poster indicates otherwise, thats the person to whom the post is in reply too.


Not to make this thread any more confusing and pointless than it already is, but that's not necessarily true at all. There are a lot of us who pay no attention at all to that silly-assed "in reply to" shit - we just type something in the box and hit "OK," with no regard at all to whomever was the last poster in the thread.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 648
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:44:25 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Well, im sorry. I do try and post properly. Forgive me and allow me to fix that error. When I post, its how I post, just so there is no future misunderstanding.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 649
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:46:17 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


Faith is belief in something for which one has no evidence. Faith is one type of belief. I believe that my close friends will be there when I need them. This is a reasonable and rational belief based on past behavior. I don't have the same expectations of a stranger. That would be faith. Reasonable, thinking people don't rely on faith to draw conclusions about things. The people who claim that they have faith in their marriages, spouses, children, employment, etc, are misusing the word, or either they are in extremely precarious situations by their own choice.


So the faith i have when i walk into a room and know that i can perform the duty of delivering a baby or start an IV isnt faith? I dont think about "do i know" i have accepted and have faith in my abilities.

You are once again using a limited definition of the term.




The definitions you supplied support my claim, not yours. If you have successfully delivered a baby in the past, possibly multiple times, then you are not operating on faith (which means you have no evidence). Your conviction that you can do it again is reasoned belief.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:46:27 AM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for the tip about the forum quirk.

See you aren't having a conversation.  I am playing softball with you and you won't even hit it back.  I have offered you at least five different ways of trying to understand this and you don't fucking care.  You just want to prattle on and keep the dervish spinning.  I showed you where you can find peace with all of this. 

This is actually THE nicest I have ever been about this topic.  I have offered you philosophically neutral advice about other ways of looking at this and you ignore all of that to argue about words.  If you want attention you have to make it worth someone's effort.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:47:40 AM   
splorff


Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline 		Why do you bother what theists think ? I dont and neither should you

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

When an atheist explains his position around here there are a number of people who explain to said atheist that isn't in fact their position and presume to attribute a different position to said atheist. How do you people consider that to be remotely reasonable? It certainly wouldn't be for any other group. For instance it would be ridiculous for me to say to a Christian no, no, no that's not your position; you believe that:

*The earth is flat and sits immovable upon pillars. Isaiah 40:22 KJV, 1 Samuel 2:8 KJV, Psalm 93:1 KJV
*Unicorns are real. Job 39:9-12 KJV
*You need to murder everyone in town and their livestock if a single person in the town isn't Christian. Deuteronomy 13:13-19 KJV

How does doing this to an atheist make it any different?


(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 652
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:49:35 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


Not to make this thread any more confusing and pointless than it already is, but that's not necessarily true at all. There are a lot of us who pay no attention at all to that silly-assed "in reply to" shit - we just type something in the box and hit "OK," with no regard at all to whomever was the last poster in the thread.


So that wasn't me you called a sloppy, putred cunt?

(...whew...)

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 653
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:50:49 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
The very definition of Christian doctrine was determined by the Nicene Creed in about 300? 400? or so AD.

An unfortunate outcome of truely Bible proportions occured, the Ecumenical Council was correct in doing what again?

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 654
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:51:29 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

Thanks for the tip about the forum quirk.

See you aren't having a conversation.  I am playing softball with you and you won't even hit it back.  I have offered you at least five different ways of trying to understand this and you don't fucking care.  You just want to prattle on and keep the dervish spinning.  I showed you where you can find peace with all of this. 

This is actually THE nicest I have ever been about this topic.  I have offered you philosophically neutral advice about other ways of looking at this and you ignore all of that to argue about words.  If you want attention you have to make it worth someone's effort.



And i do not agree with your attempts to force me to see this another way. Im speaking of a definition used the world over. From sources far older than we, and yet you repeatedly tell me im wrong.

As far as you being nice, i dont see why you shouldnt be. No one is demeaning you, belittling you, or otherwise being anything but nice back in return. Your teaching methods are failing. That could be my fault, that could just as easily be yours.

If you dont believe this is something worth persuing, why are you?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Plasticine)
Profile   Post #: 655
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:53:52 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


Not to make this thread any more confusing and pointless than it already is, but that's not necessarily true at all. There are a lot of us who pay no attention at all to that silly-assed "in reply to" shit - we just type something in the box and hit "OK," with no regard at all to whomever was the last poster in the thread.


So that wasn't me you called a sloppy, putred cunt?

(...whew...)



I believed that you had more faith in me than that.


< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 6/22/2010 10:54:33 AM >

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 656
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:55:44 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
The very definition of Christian doctrine was determined by the Nicene Creed in about 300? 400? or so AD.

An unfortunate outcome of truely Bible proportions occured, the Ecumenical Council was correct in doing what again?


Not to mention there is Greek Orthodox Christianity and Coptic Christianity, just to name two forms of that religion that were not impacted by this.... and they are as Christian as what came from Roman Catholicism....

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/22/2010 10:56:27 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 657
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:57:54 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


A christian atheist denies the existence of god but follows the teachings of Jesus. Do i agree? Doesnt matter. Its what they believe. Just as you believe what it is you believe when you state you are an atheist. You will notice no where in any post have i said you were wrong in your beliefs... only that you have some.

So, please, do continue to twist and turn this. Denounce that others have the right to believe as they wish while you insist you have the right to your own.

~Edited in an attempt to clarify

No, I am an Atheist because my beliefs are aligned with the definition of Atheism. I also subscribe to the Judeo-Christian ethic and admire Christ as a great philosopher. I am not a Christian because I do not fit the definition of a Christian. Your logic falls apart because you believe that anyone can redefine the terms to fit their own belief system. That isn't how it works. You can't redefine what a Christian is and then claim to be one. Language would have no meaning at all if everyone did that.

ETA: No where have I claimed that people are not entitled to their beliefs. I have only claimed to take exception to how people use terms that define their beliefs. Words mean something.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 6/22/2010 11:00:43 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 658
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:58:55 AM   
Plasticine


Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And i do not agree with your attempts to force me to see this another way. Im speaking of a definition used the world over. From sources far older than we, and yet you repeatedly tell me im wrong.

As far as you being nice, i dont see why you shouldnt be. No one is demeaning you, belittling you, or otherwise being anything but nice back in return. Your teaching methods are failing. That could be my fault, that could just as easily be yours.

If you dont believe this is something worth persuing, why are you?


Well first I was pursuing it because I was trying to be helpful and end what seemed to be an unnecessarily long discussion about a relatively simple matter.

Then I started pursuing it because the sadist in me likes to see the look in people's eyes when they find out that there is no Santa Claus.

Now, I'm not pursuing it at all because I know that it is a waste of time.

Belief never came in to it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 659
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/22/2010 10:59:59 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In the bottom of the post, on the right hand side, you will note that each post has a name there. Unless a poster indicates otherwise, thats the person to whom the post is in reply too.


Not to make this thread any more confusing and pointless than it already is, but that's not necessarily true at all. There are a lot of us who pay no attention at all to that silly-assed "in reply to" shit - we just type something in the box and hit "OK," with no regard at all to whomever was the last poster in the thread.



I believe that Tazzy has bigger problems than "in reply to" issues.

_____________________________



(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 660
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