Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? Page: <<   < prev  39 40 [41] 42 43   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:25:35 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		You just don't like the answer that science has to offer. Which I can dig.

But we are willing to make huge leaps when it comes down to the treatment of our eternal soul that we are not willing to take with other lesser matters.

It just doesn't give us much peace to rot. There is nothing overly satisfying or comforting in that notion.

we are not overly concerned about the eternal souls of chimps, dolphins or whales. They are too far beneath us to possess anything of value. So somewhere between chimps and humans the soul must develop...what about the retards? Is it the human that automatically gets the soul or do you have to have a certain number of chromosomes or obtain a predetermined level of consciousness in order to reach the pearlies?

Why is it so awful to rot? Your energy is returned to the Earth un-embalmed to nurture future generations.

I am not totally comfortable with my atheism that is why I joined an atheist support group. If we find ourselves in a deep patch we call upon each other instead of performing some sort of a primitive incantation to try and summon up our Lord.



_____________________________



(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 801
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:28:09 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The book of Job tries to deal with this very thing (to cite the obvious). 


Yes it does.....

Why do bad things happen to good people... the devil did it, or the witch did it, or the evil eye did it....

Just one of the many things that religion offers to those who have it.....


And one of gods answers when asked why a tree branch would fall on a man and kill him when the man was innocent was along the lines of:

Hey!  the fucker was in the wrong place at the wrong time, simple as that.

(actually, I believe it was written something about 'time and circumstance' but it comes to that same thing. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 802
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:30:38 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		The point is you don't know what happens when we die... and I am not talking about humans, I am talking about all living matter. You have no more idea of what happens than a Christian does... science hasn't answered that question yet, and they may never answer it....

I have no faith or belief surrounding what happens when I die. I have no certainty about it. I am not "comforted" by not knowing... and I think my son is right.... anyone that seeks a very definite answer to that question is looking for certainty, whether you believe in a heaven filled with 700 virgins waiting for you, or you believe you just rot...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 803
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:32:24 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline

I'll tell ya, BS. I really think for the most part I tried to see this from both angles. And for the most part, I don't usually debate around with most of the people that frequent this forum...So I didn't come into this with some of the biases that you guys have with each other. You guys go into these debates already with an idea of a person's position because you've had these discussions before with them. I haven't, so I've been sitting here trying to throw stuff out there, trying to make a point or two and trying to remain objective, despite the fact that I'm actually arguing the theists argument. But that doesn't mean jack shit to me. I'm not playing devils advocate, I'm arguing a principle here.
And what I see is the atheist doing most of the squirming around here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
we would be discussing what constitutes evidence and reason, as it should be.



The problem with this (and I did try to get to this earlier on in the thread) is we have to get both sides on the same par, instead of comparing apples to oranges....

I'm not talking about the belief that the airplane you're sitting on is going to fly. I'm talking about a moral stance, a philosophical belief, a life-principal type of believe...a belief that can't be touched or seen or proven under a microscope.

If someone could admit to having such a belief, we could then discuss the concept of "valid evidence", but that is one more thing that every atheist on the thread has avoided like the plague.

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 804
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:32:35 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		You're improving mate...credit where it's due....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 805
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:36:52 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


I am not totally comfortable with my atheism that is why I joined an atheist support group. If we find ourselves in a deep patch we call upon each other instead of performing some sort of a primitive incantation to try and summon up our Lord.



You are a fucker. It is not a support group, it's a social group - like a book club.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 806
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:39:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


I am not totally comfortable with my atheism that is why I joined an atheist support group. If we find ourselves in a deep patch we call upon each other instead of performing some sort of a primitive incantation to try and summon up our Lord.



You are a fucker. It is not a support group, it's a social group - like a book club.


I joined a Free Thought Society when I was working on my BA. They spent most of the time worrying about how to combat the Christian groups on campus. I decided I did not fit in, because while I wanted to promote free thought, I did not see this as an avenue to getting there... just me, etc

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 807
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:44:22 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The book of Job tries to deal with this very thing (to cite the obvious). 


Yes it does.....

Why do bad things happen to good people... the devil did it, or the witch did it, or the evil eye did it....

Just one of the many things that religion offers to those who have it.....

And a massive contradiction to most of what's claimed about God in the new testament of course, but let's not go there.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 808
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:46:58 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2



I'll tell ya, BS. I really think for the most part I tried to see this from both angles. And for the most part, I don't usually debate around with most of the people that frequent this forum...So I didn't come into this with some of the biases that you guys have with each other. You guys go into these debates already with an idea of a person's position because you've had these discussions before with them. I haven't, so I've been sitting here trying to throw stuff out there, trying to make a point or two and trying to remain objective, despite the fact that I'm actually arguing the theists argument. But that doesn't mean jack shit to me. I'm not playing devils advocate, I'm arguing a principle here.
And what I see is the atheist doing most of the squirming around here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub
we would be discussing what constitutes evidence and reason, as it should be.



The problem with this (and I did try to get to this earlier on in the thread) is we have to get both sides on the same par, instead of comparing apples to oranges....

I'm not talking about the belief that the airplane you're sitting on is going to fly. I'm talking about a moral stance, a philosophical belief, a life-principal type of believe...a belief that can't be touched or seen or proven under a microscope.

If someone could admit to having such a belief, we could then discuss the concept of "valid evidence", but that is one more thing that every atheist on the thread has avoided like the plague.

Which will be why you snottily dismissed my post about this in response to your last fit of victim whining about this?
It's a bit rich expecting atheists to prove that something doesn't exist when you're completely incapable of proving that it does, after all.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 809
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:49:09 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, that all is explained in the advance of knowledge and standard of living (for lack of a better word).  That is true of  all the higher religions, where in the olden times the religions were mans struggle with nature itself. As they began taming nature (as best they could) and understanding it (that fuckin science rears its ugly head here.......) religion ellided from mans struggle with external forces to mans struggle with soul (internal forces).


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 810
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 1:56:05 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

The point is you don't know what happens when we die... and I am not talking about humans, I am talking about all living matter. You have no more idea of what happens than a Christian does... science hasn't answered that question yet, and they may never answer it....

I have no faith or belief surrounding what happens when I die. I have no certainty about it. I am not "comforted" by not knowing... and I think my son is right.... anyone that seeks a very definite answer to that question is looking for certainty, whether you believe in a heaven filled with 700 virgins waiting for you, or you believe you just rot...


Julia, we cease to exist...We become an ex parrot. I have cleaned many a fish and some critters in my time. You thank them for their sustenance and you pretty much move on.

Do the fish upon having their flesh removed form their skeleton move onward to cleaner waters? If that makes ya happy, than I guess they do.


But we really are not concerned about the future prospects of dead fish. As the goldfish circles the bowl we might say a prayer but we do so kind of out of jest.

There is no way possible we could be the goldfish...We have too big of a brain to allow for that possibility.

I have always loved the serenity prayer....I think it has to do with reading "Slaughter House Five" at too young of an age. Forever corrupted my brain.

To dwell on something that we have no control over seems rather silly. Science says nothing happens, you simply become an ex parrot.

But religion needs it's believers to jump through hoops and is somewhat exclusionary as to who gets the pass and who doesn't. I never have liked that. My God would never do such a thing.

I choose to rot.



_____________________________



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 811
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 2:04:02 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		You might be reincarnated as a quartet of anteaters.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 812
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 2:08:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Do the fish upon having their flesh removed form their skeleton move onward to cleaner waters? If that makes ya happy, than I guess they do.


It does not make me anything.... hence I said I have an absence of belief. In fact any scientist should have an absence of belief about something he can't prove nor disprove...



quote:

But religion needs it's believers to jump through hoops and is somewhat exclusionary as to who gets the pass and who doesn't. I never have liked that. My God would never do such a thing.


I agree with this as it pertains to many religions, but not all preach that message. To be honest, I just can't be submissive to a male deity I can't see, hear, feel, nor touch....I can't stand rituals, they bore me. I would never make a good Christian, hell, I can't even find parking....

The thing is, perhaps consciousness, or the lifeforce, is made up of some special stuff that isn't matter based... we don't know because they are still figuring the math out and the jury is out. Some of the finest minds in the world are working on these questions, and I am extremely interested in their answers....we do not even know where our consciousness is located... it is truly a special thing, a really cool and awesome thing, that we even think about these things...

Like I said, I don't have any answers...I am ok with that. I have learned to accept that. I have moved on from thinking I will have those answers...but if i am going to be calling Christians for thinking they have the answers, why do Atheists get a free pass for the same thing?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 813
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 2:24:06 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Why does something miraculous have to happen when we die? Who started this notion?

_____________________________



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 814
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 2:43:21 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Which will be why you snottily dismissed my post about this in response to your last fit of victim whining about this?
It's a bit rich expecting atheists to prove that something doesn't exist when you're completely incapable of proving that it does, after all.



I don't mean valid evidence specifically pertaining to whether god does or does not exist. Hello?? No one has either.

I'm refering to the concept of "valid evidence" and it's application to a belief that cannot be proven.


And you weren't dismissed by me, but I was not willing to re-debate the faith issue. It was already covered and covered and covered. In fact a mod stepped in and removed some of it from what I understand, as it was getting to be a nuisance to the thread.

Feel free to actually read the thread in it's continuity instead of jumping in once every 10 pages and pulling something out of context for a quick drive-by.






< Message edited by marie2 -- 6/23/2010 2:44:14 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 815
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 3:06:14 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		You are stretching the term of "valid evidence" to a ridiculous length.

There are words to describe beliefs that cannot be proven....They are...

"I choose to believe in beliefs that cannot be proven....I know to some that may sound stupid, in fact, I have to admit when you say it out loud, it kind of does sound a tad bit silly. But I have chosen to believe in these beliefs that cannot be proven because they give me a from of comfort."

Try that one on for size, bucko!

how does that work for you?



_____________________________



(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 816
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 3:07:09 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why does something miraculous have to happen when we die? Who started this notion?



It has always been neccesary for the folks at the bottom of any scocial structure to have a reward. If not in this life, in the next.

It is also handy to keep them in line. Don't start killing your "masters" or you won't go to heavan.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 817
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 3:10:16 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Why does something miraculous have to happen when we die? Who started this notion?

If something happens to us when we die it is neither "miraculous" nor "supernatural"....those are terms that go against the natural world

Edited to add.... Neanderthals were the first to ritualize the burying of their dead....lol

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/23/2010 3:12:49 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 818
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 3:10:34 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You are stretching the term of "valid evidence" to a ridiculous length.






Given that it hasn't even been discussed yet, this statement is a premature attempt to knock it out of the water without even hearing what my idea of it is.

Doesn't surprise me.


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 819
RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/23/2010 3:17:18 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Ah...and here is where I take exception to the way you painted atheists as "avoiding discussing 'valid evidence' like the plague."

On at least 3 different occasions between this thread and julia's, I made the statement that there is a valid argument for faith as opposed to reason as a belief system, but that I wasn't going to supply both sides of this debate.

I even gave the theists hints by stating that several of the atheists had alluded to the argument while they were playing devil's advocate. You cannot fault the atheists because the theists could not make a credible argument for their faith.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 6/23/2010 3:18:57 PM >

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 820
Page:   <<   < prev  39 40 [41] 42 43   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? Page: <<   < prev  39 40 [41] 42 43   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.110