RE: Did/do you consent

RE: Did/do you consent (Full Version)

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trueshadow -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/22/2010 4:33:49 PM)
To me, this is a strange question. Every minute, every day, she consents to stay with you. I'm going to advance the argument that if she did not consent to something, anything, she'd say something. Even if she didn't want to do it, and it went against every grain in her body, the fact that she did what you wanted means she consented to it. Otherwise, she would tell you she didn't want to do that, fight you, or leave. Consent is implied if she didn't do any of the above.

leadership527 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/22/2010 5:09:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: trueshadow Consent is implied if she didn't do any of the above. nods that would be the classic, comforting, BDSM view where questions of right and proper can all be resolved by the magic "consent" thingamabob. If it was that simple in my relationship then I wouldn't have asked here. I might point out that consent is not as cut & dried as people like to think. If there are questions of ability to choose... either because of age or impairment or other relationship present (for instance, a professional relationship) then consent is no longer a given even if a person says "yes". In my case, there are both questions of impairment (her general submissiveness) and a prior relationship (our marriage) which have clouded the waters. None of that makes what we're doing a bad thing... it's not. It's a wonderful thing filled with love and smiles. But it does make that consent word marginal which means I need other milestones to evaluate questions about right and wrong.

Aileen1968 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/22/2010 6:21:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: trueshadow Consent is implied if she didn't do any of the above. nods that would be the classic, comforting, BDSM view where questions of right and proper can all be resolved by the magic "consent" thingamabob. If it was that simple in my relationship then I wouldn't have asked here. I might point out that consent is not as cut & dried as people like to think. If there are questions of ability to choose... either because of age or impairment or other relationship present (for instance, a professional relationship) then consent is no longer a given even if a person says "yes". In my case, there are both questions of impairment (her general submissiveness) and a prior relationship (our marriage) which have clouded the waters. None of that makes what we're doing a bad thing... it's not. It's a wonderful thing filled with love and smiles. But it does make that consent word marginal which means I need other milestones to evaluate questions about right and wrong. I guess I'm lucky in that my relationship is that simple. By being together it's unsaid that I agree to follow him and his desires. You say classic and comforting like it's a bad thing. What a shame. We focus our time and energy on just purely enjoying each other. Not trying to figure out why.

NuevaVida -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/22/2010 7:16:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 nods that would be the classic, comforting, BDSM view where questions of right and proper can all be resolved by the magic "consent" thingamabob. I don't have a magic thingamabob, but I do have accountability for the way I allow myself to be treated, overall. And by this I mean I choose who I engage in relationships with. When I was left emotionally and financially destitute after past relationships, I didn't have the luxury to victimize myself by saying "Well I am really submissive, and they took advantage." I mean, I could have said that, but I was much better off looking inward, asking myself "What the fuck? Why was that OK with me??" and picking myself up off the ground while learning to establish better boundaries for myself. I consented to abusive relationships simply by way of staying in them, rather than leaving. I have to be accountable for that, or I'll never stop making those mistakes. If someone doesn't want something, they either speak up or they don't. They either stay or they leave. There's always a choice. Even if they don't see it at the time.

BitaTruble -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 4:50:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 If you are in a relationship that involves a D/s dynamic, do you believe that you ever consented? Please try to avoid the whole "consent/non-consent" thing. I want to know plain and simple, did you have a choice? Do you now? Why or why not? Consent to making myself so vulnerable to another human being that a simple harsh look can reduce me to tears? Consent to stripping away the plastic veneer that I created for myself, with a hefty dose of societal influence, so that I was left exposed and raw? Consent to walking behind someone else to the point where I know it truly doesn't matter what I think, do or say because in the end it's not my decision at all whether I go or stay but his? Consent to being the least if that's what he desires or the most if that's his whim? Consent to having no will of my own or, rather, having no will of consequence in the relationship? It's not a matter of consent for me. It's simply that I got to a point where I either acknowledged my own truths or I didn't. Either wear the mask and walk by myself holding hands with this image I created or be who I am to him and be true to the real me and how I relate to us. Sure, I have a choice. Either be me or be someone else who is not really me but a pretend person. Perhaps someone I wish I were or could be. So much that was bad and unhealthy in me was shed long before I met him but knowing that I would do things for him that I would never do on my own can be scary if I were not absolutely certain of his worth as a human. In the end, though, he has the power to enforce his will on me and I haven't the power to prevent that or stop it nor do I want that power. If I had the choice to consent or not, I would consent to this life with him.. but, I don't have the power to consent or not consent. It simply is and upon realizing that truth, I figure that I'm damn lucky he's not a complete dork. :D

Andalusite -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 8:47:08 AM)
When I was a submissive or a slave, I didn't consciously choose to submit. Not submitting felt horrible and all out of kilter and sickening to me. If he wanted something that I physically couldn't do, or had concerns about, or bad past experiences with, I wanted to overcome it and do what he wanted of me. So, we'd brainstorm together, maybe come up with some baby steps along the way. In my first relationship as a Domme for 5 years, we didn't discuss consent or safewords. Neither of us really had the vocabulary for it. I took things slowly, and addressed any concerns that came up when they happened. Jeff, I think that last part is relevant to your and Carol's situation - it sounds like you already had a solid base of trust, and perhaps those negotiation aspects that are fairly common just weren't on your radar. It can go very well, as long as there is caring and trust. I think that some people purposefully use limits as "what will bother you the most, so I can feel powerful by making you do them," or are very fantasy-oriented and not safety-conscious.

leadership527 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 9:06:39 AM)
yeah Andalusite... that was one of my key take-aways from this thread. The time-factor here makes questions about consent moot. I was just making a cup of coffee and I had this funny vision... In BDSM terms one could express Carol's and my relationship like this. I met Carol and put her under a collar of consideration for 12 freakin years. At the end of that time I look at her and say, "Yeah, I think I like you pretty well. Do you consent to being my slave?" chuckles The whole situation is kind of ludicrous when you think about it that way. After 12 years of intimately scoping each other out, you'd think that such things would be pretty well sorted. The answer for us at that 12 year mark is that I like her well enough to take her any damned way she wants to be mine and she likes me well enough to be mine any damned way I want.

lally2 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 4:20:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 yeah Andalusite... that was one of my key take-aways from this thread. The time-factor here makes questions about consent moot. . and i would agree - but then the thread 'prostitution' comes up and flies in the face of that. one of the things i absolutely love about Ds and Ms is that there is this never ending story going on - there is so much to try, explore and examine. but what if youre in a relationship for a bit of time and that premis is taken toward something the sub/slave has a massive moral dilemma over. is it always a case of 'since the sub is there her consent is immediately moot' - for some prostitution (im using this example cos its a goodun [:)]) is perfectly acceptable, sharing youre sub with other men is perfectly acceptable but for some women their monogamous wiring makes it anathama compatibility is of course the obvious answer, but in my experience sometimes things crop up. like another thread i remember from ages back where a sub was asking about 'forced bi' - something she'd hard limited from the get go, was in an otherwise stable and happy relationship and was thrown wide by this sudden turn around by her Dom. in some instances consent isnt moot therefore

sweetsub1957 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 5:17:37 PM)
~Fast Reply~ i would have to say that i have no choice about being submissive.....i just am. As for any relationship i have been in with a Dominant Man, i have consented to belong to Him. Of course, one could argue that i consented after i found that i just couldn't help myself, after being inexplicably drawn to Him in particular........so when the right One and i have found each other, i consent instead of fighting it because i have no choice. Does that make any sense at all? ~sweetsub~

whiteslavebitch -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 5:34:47 PM)
We don't have a "contract" per se, but I had to actively agree to become his slave. I had to verbalize a desire to be his slave. I feel that I consent everytime I obey him, everytime I bend over for a spanking or a flogging, etc. Of course, I mostly really enjoy that part of things[;)].

leadership527 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/23/2010 5:54:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 in some instances consent isnt moot therefore Well, you won't find me going down the "no limits" path. Yeah, of course there are limits... if it isn't sharing or prostitution or something else, then there's the ever-popular limp chopping and bridge jumping.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/24/2010 7:26:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 in some instances consent isnt moot therefore Well, you won't find me going down the "no limits" path. Yeah, of course there are limits... if it isn't sharing or prostitution or something else, then there's the ever-popular limp chopping and bridge jumping. but are those her limits or yours? that's what makes the difference. like any other two people, my Master and i are not 100% compatible in all areas. in addition to this, he has a lot more fluidity to some of his desires, thoughts and feelings than i have to mine. i.e. most of the opinions i formed about life at age 9 i still retain today, lol. so this means that from the very start there were going to be areas where my Master would wish to go that would go against "who i am," and other areas where at one time we may have been very like-minded but over time his feelings or viewpoint has changed dramatically. so it is his limits, as evolving as they are, which set the boundaries of what takes place in this relationship. so lally brought up a very good point...what if one day, he changes his mind in one of those !!! areas? as a slave my ongoing consent is still irrelevant as it cannot be taken back.

leadership527 -> RE: Did/do you consent (6/24/2010 9:30:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 but are those her limits or yours? that's what makes the difference. I have found in the past that in a conversation which is face to face, between people who are very comfortable with themselves, their relationships, and the relationships between the couples in question, then it's fascinating and illuminating both to discuss limits. But here on the internet, there just isn't enough security and self-confidence to have the conversation meaningfully. Lally's point, however, remains moot for me because I can predict with confidence that Carol and I will never see the place where such "consent" comes into play. I might rephrase her statement as "in some theoretical instances consent isn't moot". But since my marriage is not a theory, I still find that moot. This is akin to mathematicians developing an entire new branch of mathematics on the basis that PI = 3 rather than 3.1415926.... It's possible to do so and you get some really interesting results. But those results will always and forever be not pertinent to actual results in this universe.

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