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RE: High End Sub? - 4/13/2006 8:22:47 PM

willowheart

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: southern Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirCumsSlut

Have heard of it before, have been told it refers to subs that are looking for rich Doms..........they want a sugardaddy basically

SirCumsSlut, please do me the favor of checking out the site and definition before saying something so hurtful?

HURTFUL!!!!!! Don't see how my comment was hurtful in any way, but then again maybe I don't subscribe to the "higher end". I do not need to be a "high end" submissive. Only one voice triggers me, all others, unless instructed by my Sir, are ignored.

My intention was not meant to be hurtful......tried checking the site and a trojan kept attacking my computer every time I did...........So please accept my apology for the misconception that I was GIVEN, NO OFFENSE WAS MEANT!!!!!!!!!!!

But I will thank you for the clarification of the term.

----------------------------------------------------------------
What hurt was the idea that I as well as other H.E.s people are after rich Dominants / or "SugarDaddies". H.E.s. 's are such deep givers. So far from being takers...

(in reply to SirCumsSlut)

Post #: 21

RE: High End Sub? - 4/13/2006 8:46:46 PM

willowheart

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: southern Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: starymists

There are any one of a number of articles, some of which go back more than a decade on High End/High Need submissives. Basically, it's referring to a specific type of personality that tends to be incredibly insecure and needs a lot of emotional care taking to remain in a good place. Having know more than one person that fits this category of being, it can be difficult to be in relationship with them if you do not understand what they need and why. It can also be difficult to be in an intense or intimate relationship without understanding how they 'read' love, caring and concern for their partners. On the other hand, I also know more than one Dominant who are more than happy to provide that level of caretaking.

Personally, I don't think the terms are about the same thing. Maybe, maybe not.
I am very secure when with my One. But without One, I become vulnerable to the "Many" -- and a lot of those are just bad news!
High End submissives are extremely articulate and because they offer themselves so deeply and completely and openly, it's hard for me to imagine withholding this information when in an intimate relationship.
However...
If you are talking about casual play, intense or not, I do tend to become very protective of my "depth" and find myself holding back. But that's because experience has taught me that I won't be accepted, that bonding in such situations is "wrong" and the Top hasn't earned my trust.
Touch my body, but I won't let You touch "me"..... Not yet, anyway...

What I have found within in the Dominant realm is that certain Dominants crave the depth that a H.E.s, is able to go into. That the bonding is electric for them. That the Dominant and His H.E.s. submissive "ride" the power exchange energy flowing between them to quite a High for B/both of them. It's amazing stuff, and it often doesn't even have to be very heavy play in order to get there.

< Message edited by willowheart -- 4/13/2006 8:47:47 PM >

(in reply to starymists)

Post #: 22

RE: High End Sub? - 4/13/2006 9:02:01 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

But I did object to the premise that a high end or high need submissive doesn't have a choice to submit, because we all have that choice.

No, we don't 'all' have that choice.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to starymists)

Post #: 23

RE: High End Sub? - 4/13/2006 9:22:48 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

interresting read there.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 24

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 5:53:50 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: starymists

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
I'm going by what's in this article. I think what you are describing is something else. This particular article specifically says it's a compulsion. "When in the presence of an 'expressing' Dominant male or female this submissive will feel 'compelled' to respond. This is not a thought or voluntary choice. The best way I can describe it is on a primal or instinctive level. When I say 'expressing Dominant' I am describing any individual who is in the midst of a strongly emissive Dominant event."

The article, I think, in some ways is misleading. That particular compulsion that is cited is in rsponse to specific stimuli that would suggest the Dominant might not be in control of him/her self at the time the compulsion to submit happens. "The submissive 'needs' the Dominant to stop . . . to control. In addition this submissive will often 'express' submission. No threat. Calm. The apparent intent is to deflect the Dominant energy, summon or return the Dominant to control of themselves. The interface of unexpected submissive energy will often 'shut down' the explosive or violent scene. Sometimes the submissive will go so far as to 'draw' the 'energy' of the Dominant and they may find themselves within the whirlpool of uncontrolled violence of a Dominant out of control. This reaction or response is irrational to many outside viewers.

Actually you've cobbled together parts of two paragraphs here. The paragraph that describes the "compulsive reaction" states that it occurs "in the midst of a strongly Dominant event". That could be any overt Dominant expression, from a strong steely gaze, to a growly voice, to a firm command. For that matter, it can simply be the strong confident posture and demeanor.

When it says compulsion, it doesn't mean there is NO choice. It simply means that ones own ability to choose is harder and becomes swallowed up in the face of that overwhelming hypnotic feeling of control being exerted by the Dominant. It's very much like a hypnotic suggestion. When hypnotized we have choice, hypnotists all say so, it's just that our desire to DO as suggested becomes greater.

(in reply to starymists)

Post #: 25

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 6:11:57 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

Just sounds like a submissive that is more vulnerable to falling into a sub attitude than maybe a "Low end" (you would have assume there is an opposite) submissive. Really it appears to be a way to cloud the already muddy water when it somes to definitions to me. Next thing you know we'll have a 1 through 10 rating, I'll be satisfied if we can just get the basics somewhat workable when it comes to defining someone. The last thing I want to hear when asking someone if they are a Dominant or submissive is to get an answer like "I'm a midrange submissive somewhere between a 6 and a 7", talk about confusing.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to mysecret40)

Post #: 26

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 8:03:05 AM

SpiritualWater

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

I feel a true submissive is exceptionally sophisticated ...skilled in the fine nuances of life ...is the desire, envied and respected by all who appreciate life's perfections and flaws and know how to separate all of it properly. A true submissive can stop an approach with only a simply glance and can reveal her want to be conquered with the whisper of just her breath. A true submissive is elegance defined possessing articulation extraordinaire ...she is the utter definition of woman and her place is with her perfect One ...she submits only to Him while the world submits to her.

If this means that only high end submissives are true submissives in My view then so be it , Never should any who are True in Ds be anything less than exceptional.

(in reply to mysecret40)

Post #: 27

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 8:28:04 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Katy,

I was all ready to post some snarky cynical post and hell even I could top yours!

"It sounds like lifestyle psychobabble to me. "

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 28

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 8:31:58 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I actually checked out the site and there was a perfect explanation....

It is run by F.R.R. Mallory

Labels are always bullshit, used by people who feel the only way up is to push another down and Mallory in my oh so humble opinion is a bit of a nut.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 29

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 9:50:53 AM

willowheart

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: southern Minnesota
Status: offline

a TRUE submissive ?? !! ?
hold it! No matter what one is --- if it is honest, then it IS true, and so is he or she!
Does EXPERIENCE make O/one a TRUE whichever??? Bull-twaddle!
What you are describing is a submissive who has had the honor and privilage of being grown and developed, preferably by her Dominant.
Sounds like your version of a submissive is more like an experienced "bottom" to me, except for the having a regular partner and a commitment. The "feel" to me is awfully power-trippy, but I have yet to be grown...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritualWater

I feel a true submissive is exceptionally sophisticated ...skilled in the fine nuances of life ...is the desire, envied and respected by all who appreciate life's perfections and flaws and know how to separate all of it properly. A true submissive can stop an approach with only a simply glance and can reveal her want to be conquered with the whisper of just her breath. A true submissive is elegance defined possessing articulation extraordinaire ...she is the utter definition of woman and her place is with her perfect One ...she submits only to Him while the world submits to her.

If this means that only high end submissives are true submissives in My view then so be it , Never should any who are True in Ds be anything less than exceptional.

Oh! hmmmm ? wondering... I can conceive of the possibility that there may be a few Dominants (Masters -- whatever...) who do not want their finished product to be the way you described it.
Some Dominants may not want their little one to put on such haunghty airs, as it may reflect badly on them. Who knows -- other than the particular Dominant?

[It just so happens that my Sir DOES want me to become somewhat along the lines of what you described. But this tool of us knowing I am pretty much of a H.E.s. helps Him develop me the way he wants.]

I dislike labels too, Not because of a rebellion against "labelling", but because it doesn't take into account all the individual's little variants and nuances. But some labelling of categories is necessary.
Think about it. We label ourselves here. Dominants, submissives, sWiTcHeS...
Goodness! without labels, this site would be just another match-making site..
Oh, DARN it!!! that's another "label", isn't it ????

(in reply to SpiritualWater)

Post #: 30

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 10:01:43 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

I was all ready to post some snarky cynical post and hell even I could top yours!

I can be snarky at times.
By the way, I have to ask...what's up with your screen name????

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 31

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 10:02:19 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mysecret40

...Came across a site for something called a "High" End submissive. I've never heard this one before...has anyone else? http://www.steel-door.com/High_End_Submissive.html this is the site....secret

this slave has never heard of "High End Submission", but then this slave never heard of "High Monogamy" until someone brought it up here a while back.

it isn't suprising, sometimes the sub/slave debate just isn't entertaining on a particular day, so folks come up with some other descriptor to debate vs. just plain ol' submissive that tries to explain behavior that is extreme or "abnormal" or makes folks feel more _____________ about their proclivities...

to this slave, it sounds like a page out of the psychiatric DSM--but then again, we all have our special warm fuzzy spot there, don't we?

(in reply to mysecret40)

Post #: 32

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 10:04:26 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

*sigh* Oh well, never mind. Seems many are stuck on the name "high end" rather than on what the article actually describes. Nowhere in the article does it imply that this type of submissive is somehow better than any other, simply that it is a type of submissive that one might experience that reacts differently than others.

If it makes you feel any better, call it a "Twilight Zone Sub" or a "Confusing as Hell Sub" even a "Space Cadet Sub" I don't really have an attachment to the term. I just know the dynamic fits and getting some insight into the way I act/react to the D/s dynamic will help me communicate better. What could possible be wrong with that?

Why is this having such a corn cob effect on so many people?

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 33

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 10:11:14 AM

willowheart

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: southern Minnesota
Status: offline

to TN:
Amen!
It IS the description, not the title, that is helpful and meaningful to us. Simply a tool to aid us. Something to be used...

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 34

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 1:01:35 PM

mysecret40

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline

My previous master did want a woman already groomed to a certain degree and then molded to his liking...minor adjustments here and there. I was to be able to hold a conversation with his business associates when we were out and at party's...I was to be to mingle at the opening of MOMA, I was to have the etiquette and be able to carry myself as a lady. He expected this. But, of course I could be my silly self when we were alone together. It was the appearance and being effective in the world, plus of course being successful. That is why high end intrigued me...it is the behavior, or character that I was reading that pertained to this type of sub.secret

(in reply to willowheart)

Post #: 35

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 2:22:25 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Willowheart,

If it is just the description you like, why not call yourself a "powerless sub" or a "weakest sub" or something else that doesn't sound like not only a badge of honor but puts you at the top of the dungheap of labels?

By inference, if there is a "high end sub" then there is a "low end sub" which is anyone who doesn't fit your description.

Funny, nobody ever sets up a labeling scheme and then slaps the shittiest label on themselves, they always seem to get the "good" one.

Which is why I am a level 12 top tier super dominate...

(in reply to willowheart)

Post #: 36

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 2:44:43 PM

babysburnin

Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline

I think it is obvious - as stated above, labels really mean nothing - who gets to be the boss of defining people who are all unique? My Dom tells me I am "High End" (in so many words), but his definition is not that of the article you refer to.

I would be concerned with and wary of anyone who wanted to slap an easy label on me - Grade A, Prime or otherwise. Seems lazy of the person doing that defining - and shallow - it's too easy, people aren't easy.

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to mysecret40)

Post #: 37

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 2:57:43 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Oh well, at least threads like this make it easier to sort the wheat from the chafe.

(in reply to babysburnin)

Post #: 38

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 3:25:33 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

interresting read there.

Nah, it's not that interesting. Think... needy, clingy, whiny, do-me.. albeit many, many moons ago. I've grown up since then. ;) What that meant was simply when I met my first Master, he had the ability to rip the power right out of my core.. and I had no choice in the matter. He was cruel, mean, small minded and intimidating. Had I a choice in the matter, I'd have kicked him to the curb, but I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Choices are for those with the knowledge to make them or with the eyes to see them.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 39

RE: High End Sub? - 4/14/2006 3:40:26 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

interresting read there.

Nah, it's not that interesting. Think... needy, clingy, whiny, do-me.. albeit many, many moons ago. I've grown up since then. ;) What that meant was simply when I met my first Master, he had the ability to rip the power right out of my core.. and I had no choice in the matter. He was cruel, mean, small minded and intimidating. Had I a choice in the matter, I'd have kicked him to the curb, but I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Choices are for those with the knowledge to make them or with the eyes to see them.

Celeste

Hiya Bita... tears IMed me and told me you was talking to me on this thread. What I ment was the thread was an interresting read. To see others thoughts on this type of subject... and I gotta tell ya... I agree with TN on this. Everyones pretty much wrapped in the title.... and not the rest of it... the meaning....

But looking back on your post Bita..... I see what you are saying to me.... huggggggggggggggggssssssssssssssssssss (always respected your post and humor... thanks for stearing me back to rereading yours)

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 40

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