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Aftercare - 6/30/2010 9:49:18 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		Ok, been in Europe not thinking about D/s for a couple of months, but I'm back and this one is making me crazy:

How do people feel about aftercare? I do a lot of very intense psychological stuff with my Dom, and while during play I feel like the luckiest, most incredibly blissful person on the planet, when I don't get a good "it's ok, I care about you. Come back to yourself" session afterward, I wind up feeling god awful. My Dom agrees that we need to find aftercare that works for me, but so far I can never get him to do it, and in trying to I wind up feeling obnoxious and needy and whiny on top of my already pretty crappy feeling. He has also lightly suggested that over time he'd like to change my psyche so that I don't need it as much, and that perhaps I could "earn" or "lose" aftercare by being particularly good or bad. Those ideas leave me a bit taken aback.

Are there any Doms out there who do NOT like to do aftercare? Are there any subs who desperately need it but have had to stifle the need because their Dom wanted them to "get over it"? Everyone else - do you need aftercare? Do you loathe aftercare? Think it's silly? Love it?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:02:22 PM   
Ligeia72


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Ok, been in Europe not thinking about D/s for a couple of months, but I'm back and this one is making me crazy:

How do people feel about aftercare? I do a lot of very intense psychological stuff with my Dom, and while during play I feel like the luckiest, most incredibly blissful person on the planet, when I don't get a good "it's ok, I care about you. Come back to yourself" session afterward, I wind up feeling god awful. My Dom agrees that we need to find aftercare that works for me, but so far I can never get him to do it, and in trying to I wind up feeling obnoxious and needy and whiny on top of my already pretty crappy feeling. He has also lightly suggested that over time he'd like to change my psyche so that I don't need it as much, and that perhaps I could "earn" or "lose" aftercare by being particularly good or bad. Those ideas leave me a bit taken aback.

Are there any Doms out there who do NOT like to do aftercare? Are there any subs who desperately need it but have had to stifle the need because their Dom wanted them to "get over it"? Everyone else - do you need aftercare? Do you loathe aftercare? Think it's silly? Love it?

Inquiring minds want to know.


Personally I don't think there is any one size fits best approach to aftercare. Like a lot of things, it depends on the players involved, and what they want/need/desire based on their individual needs and preferences, etc etc. For me personally, I'm easy, I can go either way depending on what the bottom wants. Having said that, unless it's something the bottom is really opposed to, and it would ruin their overall enjoyment of what's gone before, I do prefer to do aftercare - as much for my benefit as the bottom's. Doesn't have to be full blown warm fluffy towels, and cuddles, but even just spending some time together afterwards talking, reflecting, chilling out together, doing stuff to ground the energy that was raised, and reconnect.

YMMV of course.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:05:10 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I love aftercare.

That said, it sounds like he doesn't care for it...


_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:06:11 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline 		jujubeeMB, I only wish I knew more about different people's needs and were better at it.
 
Most men I've known have been tighter than clams about it.  I will probably have to learn more by listening to fem subs...
 
I need aftercare too, or I get a nasty case of top drop.  I could never tell anyone to get over it...that never helps does it, it's just another way of saying "I don't want to deal with your problem."  
 
Since I have never bottomed, my knowledge of aftercare is deficient so I have to read and ask questions and try to be observant.  This is an interesting topic, and I hope more people respond and help to educate me with practical information, as well as feelings from a bottom/sub's point of view, and words that have helped. 
 
 

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:15:54 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Sweetie, you know the answer to this.

First, aftercare is very important. Second, yes, everyone's level of what they need can be different. That level will also definately change based on the activities that occur.

You say it is intense psychological stuff, and I remember when you first got here, you talked a little about that stuff, and how it was hard to for you to come to grips with what you enjoyed when it was over and then feeling bad. There is nothing wrong with feeling that way, and I've no doubt it happens quite often and is resolved through appropriate aftercare.

You say that he agrees you need to find something that works for you, but then immediately after say how you can't get him to give you what you need, which tells me you are letting him know, but he doesn't want to. Add to that his "desire" to try to change your psyche so that you don't need it? That you should EARN aftercare?

jujubee, obviously this guy is taking you through Europe. Come home and then kick his ass to the curb...hard so that he gets road rash all over his sorry ass, including some of those little stones that get buried under the skin and make it difficult for him to sit until he has a doctor remove them. It is HIS psyche that needs to change. You are a smart cookie and you know what he is doing is wrong. He is only interested in the abuse part of play. Do you really think you would ever "earn" the aftercare you need? He would find reason after reason to let you continue to feel like shit. That's how he will "change" your psyche. The same way an abusive spouse, through continued abuse and telling his wife that she deserves what she is getting makes her believe she is worthless.

By not giving you the aftercare you need, by admitting that he wants you to feel crappy, he is hoping in time you will learn that you should feel crappy and that "intense psychological mind fucking" is reality, not play.

Get out ASAP before he does enough damage that you need therapy for years to come. Please.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:25:40 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Ok, been in Europe not thinking about D/s for a couple of months, but I'm back and this one is making me crazy:

How do people feel about aftercare? I do a lot of very intense psychological stuff with my Dom, and while during play I feel like the luckiest, most incredibly blissful person on the planet, when I don't get a good "it's ok, I care about you. Come back to yourself" session afterward, I wind up feeling god awful. My Dom agrees that we need to find aftercare that works for me, but so far I can never get him to do it, and in trying to I wind up feeling obnoxious and needy and whiny on top of my already pretty crappy feeling. He has also lightly suggested that over time he'd like to change my psyche so that I don't need it as much, and that perhaps I could "earn" or "lose" aftercare by being particularly good or bad. Those ideas leave me a bit taken aback.

Are there any Doms out there who do NOT like to do aftercare? Are there any subs who desperately need it but have had to stifle the need because their Dom wanted them to "get over it"? Everyone else - do you need aftercare? Do you loathe aftercare? Think it's silly? Love it?

Inquiring minds want to know.


Aftercare or rather care in general is a primary component for all relating. Regardless if you are engaging sexually with another and care is required, be it prior, during or afterwards it is something IMO to respond to with an antidote for the other person you are involved with. However not everyone holds the same beliefs regarding the concept of care therefore there are varying outcomes. The solution is different for everyone and I might add quite personal for most who require after-care.

Sounds like, from your words, that you do not do well with someone that is emotionally detached. This is not something to shame yourself over. It can only be a fact actually, if someone deems it so that is. Only you can make the decision as to what actually works for you and due to the fact that you know that emotional detachment does not work for you then all you can do is make a decision for you that allows you to thrive in your relationship not be deprived.

Factually speaking not everyone reacts the same identical way as the next person will to needing after care when they are reorienting. Just like other preferences are personal and require individual attention, so does this subject you presented. I would encourage you to address it as personal as from your words it does sound personal and quite important for you. What we ignore reproduces itself. Yet what we face can only diminish. IMO

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:32:53 PM   
Ligeia72


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ligeia72
Personally I don't think there is any one size fits best approach to aftercare. Like a lot of things, it depends on the players involved, and what they want/need/desire based on their individual needs and preferences, etc etc. For me personally, I'm easy, I can go either way depending on what the bottom wants. Having said that, unless it's something the bottom is really opposed to, and it would ruin their overall enjoyment of what's gone before, I do prefer to do aftercare - as much for my benefit as the bottom's. Doesn't have to be full blown warm fluffy towels, and cuddles, but even just spending some time together afterwards talking, reflecting, chilling out together, doing stuff to ground the energy that was raised, and reconnect.

YMMV of course.


Just adding an addendum to this - If I felt/perceived that aftercare was something the bottom actually needed for their psychological health and safety, then I would override any ideas they might have of 'No, really, I don't want this' or 'No, I absolutely don't need aftercare'. If it's a matter of keeping someone safe, they get the aftercare whether they like it or not from my perspective.

(in reply to Ligeia72)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:38:20 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		I love touching a man post-orgasm; his skin is so sensitised, it's enthralling for him. I only didn't want to with one man, and shortly afterwards I realised I really didn't care about him, and I cut him loose.
Life's too short to not care about the guy you're having sex/making love with.
And to read about someone who is threatening to punish you by withholding something you need and have articulated that you need is frankly pretty nauseating: he's either a sadist, a sociopath, a bully, or just not that into you.
Best to find out now.

(in reply to Zevar)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:52:05 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		Well, this all seems to be an overwhelming consensus thus far.

LL - I think I know that you're right. Here's my direct fear, if this makes any sense: that I will never be able to find anyone who can both psychologically tear me to shreds and then very much want to build me back up again. I'm worried that there aren't people who are capable of being vulnerable to me by showing me how much they care, even after they've dragged me through the dark parts of my sexuality. I realize that's a silly thing to say to a giant BDSM community, and I'm positive that everyone is going to tell me that I just haven't met Doms like that and there are plenty, but as I've only been "in the lifestyle" for a year and a half, I don't have the experience to quash that fear. So what that leaves me with is: what if what I have is as good as it gets?

You know I'm not naive, and you know I can hold my own in a lot of ways, so that question is purely from the illogical but present dark recesses of my little subbie heart. And I can't shake it.

(in reply to Tantriqu)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 10:58:59 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		For casual play, I find aftercare more than 10 minutes or so rather icky and clingy and if someone needs it, they can play with someone else. However, I don't tend to do intense psychological play casually.

Now, with a partner I LOVE dark, twisted psychological play. Using someone as an object or degrading someone, sharing them or in some way reducing them to some "lesser" or "dark" place usually requires some aftercare to bring back to being "whole" after having been used as a "hole". I love giving that aftercare because it is healing for both of us. She gets to be told that she really isn't just a toilet, or a cumdump and I get to see that I am not some twisted dad molesting his little girl.

Providing good aftercare is a great way of bonding with someone. I have a very soft chenille blanket that has been my aftercare blanket for almost 15 years and has amazingly good energy because of that. I also carry a soft brush to brush their hair with. While someone is in deep subspace and really settled into your aftercare is also a good time to plant suggestions but you didn't hear that from me.

(in reply to Tantriqu)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:01:45 PM   
Ligeia72


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline 		OP - After thinking on this some more, I have formed the personal opinion that what this person is doing in regards to wanting to refuse your need for aftercare, and talking about ideas such as making you 'earn it', is not only disrespectful, it's also erring on the side of irresponsible. Even if you're talking about a 'no limits, my limits are my Master's' situation, then a responsible person would make sure to only override limits so far as they do not impact the physical or psychological safety of a person. No use breaking your toys when you play with them, makes them pretty useless to play with again, IMHO. I work from the point of view, 'First Do No Harm' - if your need/desire for aftercare is coming from a place of protecting your own psychological health and safety, then he either respects that, and gives you what you want, or he finds another partner to play with.

< Message edited by Ligeia72 -- 6/30/2010 11:03:03 PM >

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:02:04 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Well Jujubee...I think I agree wtih the crowd

You've found a lazy, selfish S.O.B. who wants all the fun of bdsm without the responsibility.

I can 100% assure you that you can do better than that! I've had doms who were crap at aftercare (in my case I'm a masochist who gets sub-drop the day after play), and with a little advice from friends who are also into bdsm, I got rid of them.

I know what I need in terms of aftercare. It's not a great deal - it's mostly communication and reassurance. If they can't be bothered to do that, then to be honest they're pretty shitty human beings. Now that I know what I need, I make sure that anyone I play with knows what they need to do too. If they don't, then I kick them to the kerb and I make it damn clear to them why they've been kicked

Keep looking - this world is full of decent doms who will actually show you some respect!

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:07:59 PM   
ForgetMeKnots


Posts: 95
Joined: 6/14/2010
Status: offline 		Just to let you know... you may find some information on this thread helpful:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2744947/mpage_1/tm.htm



_____________________________

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BDSM is what two people at the moment decide it should be...
--CatdeMedici

Member of the Subbie Mafia
Pimpette
Member of MoGa's IN crowd

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:17:48 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		<Sighs> And just when people were starting to like me.

Aftercare in most cases is crock of shit. No not the giving of it, but the idea that it is one sided. See after a scene, the only kind that I know, I need to step away. My Head is in a very different place. It is in a Sadistic place, usually my arm hurts or is sore, My focus is still locked on their mental capasity but not the one that needs aftercare, the one to make sure she is still there, the controling place where as a Sadist my intention is not to coddle her but to deliver the pain that meets both of our needs.

That being said I find the notion that aftercare is necessary, but only to the submissive is completely crap.

Now everyone who likes to speak for me listen up. Aftercare in my relationship is discussed prior to play and it is explained I Give aftercare in the form of making sure that she is okay, that she is back mentally, and that whatever shaking from dopemine drop has started to subside, a Blanket, and some water. Then I go TAKE CARE OF ME! I don't expect anyone to do that, I get myself back. Most of it is an internal dialog. Most of it is just removing myself from the stimuli and getting myself back to a natural head space.

Now if she feels the need to be held for hours, to have her hair brushed, to be told a hundred times that she is a good girl then I am just not the person to give it to her. I woud be the Wrong TOP for her. To be honest I tend to dislike being with Masochists that get lathargic and cry for release after a scene, I cannot relate, I don't get it, I just don't.

To tell someone that they should leave because their TOP isn't willing to submit himself to her irrational mental state is beyond me, and in my opinion very bad advice. The suggestion that aftercare is something that she should earn I think is stupid either he gives it or he doesn't but playing a game with it is retarded.

To the OP, ask yourself a serious question. Do you want aftercare because you are lost from what he did? Or in that state do you tell yourself things and need his verbal or physical reinforcement to counter those things? Is this something HE caused or something YOU do all on your own?

I know this is NOT the popular view, but it has been accepted by every partner I have had for over a decade.

QSM



_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:22:34 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

You've found a lazy, selfish S.O.B. who wants all the fun of bdsm without the responsibility.



That's more or less what I've been afraid of for most of our relationship. I think I keep waiting for him to suddenly understand how selfish he's being. I swear to you, he would be offended by this. He has absolutely no idea how much I don't get from him.



quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

While someone is in deep subspace and really settled into your aftercare is also a good time to plant suggestions but you didn't hear that from me.



You evil, evil man...

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:28:56 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

That being said I find the notion that aftercare is necessary, but only to the submissive is completely crap.


In my experience aftercare was about us, our dynamic, and it was a coming down period. I did not see anyone say that it was all about the submissive..... I believe you are creating a false dichotomy...


That being said the OP tends to suggest her aftercare needs exceed that of her dominant, and that maybe a compatibility issue, depending on what they decide

_____________________________

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(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:32:51 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

That being said I find the notion that aftercare is necessary, but only to the submissive is completely crap.


In my experience aftercare was about us, our dynamic, and it was a coming down period. I did not see anyone say that it was all about the submissive..... I believe you are creating a false dichotomy...


That being said the OP tends to suggest her aftercare needs exceed that of her dominant, and that maybe a compatibility issue, depending on what they decide


Perhaps I am. I do however point out the MAJOR difference between number of subspace need thread Vs. Domspace need Threads, mostly because most Dom's don't see it as something they need, I agree that I am slightly different in that respect.

If aftercare is the only issue that would be one thing but based on the OP's last Post it looks like Aftercare is only one of many things she is not getting, perhaps this is a thread to have people attempt to convince her to leave him I don't know I gave my opinion on Aftercare.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:35:53 PM   
Ligeia72


Posts: 126
Joined: 6/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

<Sighs> And just when people were starting to like me.

Aftercare in most cases is crock of shit. No not the giving of it, but the idea that it is one sided. See after a scene, the only kind that I know, I need to step away. My Head is in a very different place. It is in a Sadistic place, usually my arm hurts or is sore, My focus is still locked on their mental capasity but not the one that needs aftercare, the one to make sure she is still there, the controling place where as a Sadist my intention is not to coddle her but to deliver the pain that meets both of our needs.

That being said I find the notion that aftercare is necessary, but only to the submissive is completely crap.

Now everyone who likes to speak for me listen up. Aftercare in my relationship is discussed prior to play and it is explained I Give aftercare in the form of making sure that she is okay, that she is back mentally, and that whatever shaking from dopemine drop has started to subside, a Blanket, and some water. Then I go TAKE CARE OF ME! I don't expect anyone to do that, I get myself back. Most of it is an internal dialog. Most of it is just removing myself from the stimuli and getting myself back to a natural head space.

Now if she feels the need to be held for hours, to have her hair brushed, to be told a hundred times that she is a good girl then I am just not the person to give it to her. I woud be the Wrong TOP for her. To be honest I tend to dislike being with Masochists that get lathargic and cry for release after a scene, I cannot relate, I don't get it, I just don't.

To tell someone that they should leave because their TOP isn't willing to submit himself to her irrational mental state is beyond me, and in my opinion very bad advice. The suggestion that aftercare is something that she should earn I think is stupid either he gives it or he doesn't but playing a game with it is retarded.

To the OP, ask yourself a serious question. Do you want aftercare because you are lost from what he did? Or in that state do you tell yourself things and need his verbal or physical reinforcement to counter those things? Is this something HE caused or something YOU do all on your own?

I know this is NOT the popular view, but it has been accepted by every partner I have had for over a decade.

QSM




I may very well not express this as succinctly as I would like, but I do agree with many of your points. For me, aftercare as a top isn't just a one way thing either. Yes I tend to be fairly easy going/fluid with what I actually need in a scene or afterwards (to a point), but at the same time that doesn't mean I completely ignore my own needs or that the bottoms needs are somehow greater than my own when I might also need that aftercare space to reconnect after topping. For me it's a two way street, ensuring that both parties have enjoyed themselves without necessarily putting one person's needs ahead of the other. Like I said, for me personally as well, I am flexible with stuff like aftercare, I don't necessarily have any hard and fast rules on how much or how little, except to say I do prefer not to play with someone who needs or desires absolutely zero aftercare. So obviously then that goes down to negotiation, and picking play partners that I'm compatible with.

Having said the above, if; however, the requirement of aftercare becomes an issue of safety, then I will either provide the level of aftercare the bottom needs in order to be safe, and if I can't then I don't play with them.

Just my 2cents worth of course.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:40:10 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

To tell someone that they should leave because their TOP isn't willing to submit himself to her irrational mental state is beyond me, and in my opinion very bad advice. The suggestion that aftercare is something that she should earn I think is stupid either he gives it or he doesn't but playing a game with it is retarded.

QSM[/font]




It is bad advice for YOU. It is GOOD advice and I stand by it. He isn't her "top," he is supposed to be her partner. They aren't playing S&M games, but intense psychological mind fuck stuff.

Your way has "worked" for you for 10 years. Do you discuss your view on it before hand, like a responsible adult or do you just spring it on them and figure they can just deal with it. Since you haven't had the same partner for those 10 years, so has it really worked? Obviously you have no concept of how selfish you sound when you talk about how you take care of YOU, so maybe you also have no concept that your relationships ended because your partners got fed up with your selfish attitude.

Of course you are free to have your opinion, just as I am free to have mine. I actually am friends with OP and know a bit more about her than you do, so my advice to her comes from some personal knowledge, while yours is simply blowing smoke out of your ass. She's smart enough to take your advice with a grain of salt though, so no worries.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Aftercare - 6/30/2010 11:44:34 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

While someone is in deep subspace and really settled into your aftercare is also a good time to plant suggestions but you didn't hear that from me.



You evil, evil man...


If I didn't know better, I would think you were flirting with me.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 20
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