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RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:21:33 PM   
jujubeeMB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

What I find irrational (Again maybe not the best word) is the idea that a scene could make a person doubt what they KNOW about their master. If the Bond is STRONG nothing I say to my sub, nothing I do, will ever make her doubt her worth to me.



For me, this doesn't work, because I don't value myself based on my "worth to him." I value myself based on a lot of things that you probably value yourself based on: your own code of ethics, how you act towards yourself and others, what good you put into the world in the way you define "good"... I want to please him - desperately want to - but I don't base my self-worth on what I am to him, except when I've gone over to the dark, delicious place that needs coming back from. I realize that not everyone feels this way, but I just do. And that doesn't make me any less capable of having a strong bond with someone.

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RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:23:48 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		QSM,

I get where you are coming from on aftercare but you are wrong about the bit about not needing to be brought back or at least that there are strong healthy people who need to be brought back. I have dated women who didn't need any sort of aftercare like BSB but I have also been with strong women who did need it but let me put it in another way.

For ME, I like pretty dark humiliation play and enjoy reducing a woman to a pretty low state. I won't do this with a woman who isn't strong and independent and fully capable of looking me in the eye at my most dark and intimidating and saying "no". I don't want to start with an object but I want to take someone who is anything but and turn her into one. Why do I do all this?

Because for me, in that moment when that amazing woman allows me to strip her of all that she is and make her nothing, I become everything, in that reflection of her emptiness I see me as everything in her eyes. I do so because it counters those awkward teenage years that left their scars on my psyche. I don't feel that way about myself now but my sexuality was formed then and so doing that sort of intense play is quite hot.

So, here I am a fairly healthy guy and yet I need "aftercare" in my scene itself...as a sort of mirror image of "her" need for aftercare to bring her back too. I don't need it right after a scene but I do need it. Part of that for me is needing a woman with a very active imagination and one she is quite comfortable sharing with me. Otherwise if it is all force, at some point I stop feeling like this is hot sex for both of us but instead I am having to force myself upon a woman who doesn't want me.


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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:33:01 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

For ME, I like pretty dark humiliation play and enjoy reducing a woman to a pretty low state. I won't do this with a woman who isn't strong and independent and fully capable of looking me in the eye at my most dark and intimidating and saying "no". I don't want to start with an object but I want to take someone who is anything but and turn her into one. Why do I do all this?

Because for me, in that moment when that amazing woman allows me to strip her of all that she is and make her nothing, I become everything, in that reflection of her emptiness I see me as everything in her eyes. I do so because it counters those awkward teenage years that left their scars on my psyche. I don't feel that way about myself now but my sexuality was formed then and so doing that sort of intense play is quite hot.

So, here I am a fairly healthy guy and yet I need "aftercare" in my scene itself...as a sort of mirror image of "her" need for aftercare to bring her back too. I don't need it right after a scene but I do need it. Part of that for me is needing a woman with a very active imagination and one she is quite comfortable sharing with me. Otherwise if it is all force, at some point I stop feeling like this is hot sex for both of us but instead I am having to force myself upon a woman who doesn't want me.



This is brilliant. I wish all Doms were able to look at themselves this honestly, and that is a gorgeous example of what makes severe humiliation play intoxicating.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:33:51 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I have however met subs who feel that a 30 minute slap and tickle should allow them to have their partner at their beck and call for the remainder of the evening, I have seen this in action, and I have seen the people who witness it divided among those who think it is absoluely valid and those who think it's complete bullshit.


It is the couple that decide what they need, outsider's opinions are just inappropriate on the matter... why are people "discussing" the parameters of a couple's scene? I mean really, I would never debate the merits of the aftercare of another couple if it suited them......


Odd, I find just about everyone I know makes comments and discusses the parameters of a public scene, Everyone watching forms opinions and takes note and usually in the aftermath it is discussed, I actually enjoy the discussing of other people scenes.

Specifically I would be refering to the Banter that goes about around things just like this, some people see aftercare one way some see it another way, I am speaking on how I see Aftercare as a Dynamic in MY relationships. And yes other people dynamics are discussed in every Dungeon I have ever set foot in in one way or another, to pretend it doesn't makes me wonder wbout your involvement, as I have never NOT heard it discussed, perhaps not during the actual scene but after in the Mingeling sections or at Denny's at 3am. It always gets discussed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

What I find irrational (Again maybe not the best word) is the idea that a scene could make a person doubt what they KNOW about their master. If the Bond is STRONG nothing I say to my sub, nothing I do, will ever make her doubt her worth to me.


Subspace ain't "rational".... There have been times I felt so out of control, knowing I coule not even vocalize "no" and wondered what would happen if I needed to. That sort of experience takes a person to places where they do not even trust themselves, which means they need extra assurance they can trust the person that put them there.


And I personally feel like building on that every day, each day, and for as long as we are together, not just in the moments after a scene, I am there giving that extra assurance every second of every day. So that when their Brain is sending those bad signals, when I pull her down and check her breathing, her Pupils, and her shaking, and give her a blanket, a water, and a kiss on the forhead, In that 5 to 6 minutes she knows what we have and that nothing her head is telling her is real.

See My experience is that I have never needed anymore than I have given, I have played with a variety of people maybe I just never met one who needed more, perhaps if I had I would have adjusted, perhaps if I managed to tear one apart to that level I would feel differently about the whole nature of Aftercare, but after over a decade it has yet to happen. In every relationship the fact that I was there and this is why they were safe has always been the cornerstone of my relationships. That they had nothing to fear, that I wasn't going to harm them, that when it comes down to it I want them to love every last bit of what we do.... because I'll be loving it from start to finish, even in Sadist space where I want to see how bruised we can make the Buffalo Butt, I am there to Hurt them NOT HARM THEM, and I find Psycological Break down, when I am illequipt to build it back up if it goes too deep, is just irresponsible.

QSM

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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:41:13 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Odd, I find just about everyone I know makes comments and discusses the parameters of a public scene, Everyone watching forms opinions and takes note and usually in the aftermath it is discussed, I actually enjoy the discussing of other people scenes.


I have never played in public... and if this is true I never ever will. If people sat around and judged the level of aftercare I needed it would be disturbing to me...


I lived with my last dom for a year and we were involved fairly steadily for 4 years (with periods of off again on again). We are still friends.

My first dom and I played in private. We had a long distance relationship for about a year, which never fully developed due to distance, although our play was "fun" and we loved each other... he was too old for me.

So now, are you going to argue because I do not get beaten in public my views on aftercare mean less?

_____________________________

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(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:44:10 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		Not at all Julia,

What you said sounds fine for you.

It just isn't my reality.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:49:23 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		I guess where I am most confused is I feel everyone should choose what level of Aftercare they desire, I think some are Bullshit, I think some are ways to force a relationship that doesn't really exist. I think that some people engage in play that isn't for me and because of this I might not understand the intracasies of it.

My question is why am I not allowed to have my view on aftercare and have it found just as valid as yours.

Do any of you realize how many times I have been called Selfish, Dangerous, Uncaring, Irresponsible in this thread because my opinion doesn't match yours?

For fuck sake people, there is more than one Right answer to these kinds of questions.

Going off-line for awhile cause this is becoming more abusive than discussion.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 2:59:39 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		As long as your partner is cool with it, so am I. I witnessed something the very last time I was at a "public" event.

It was a private "dungeon" there were perhaps 20 people there. One of the regulars? beat the shit out of a woman. She knew it was coming and she wanted it.

After  about 30 min. he stopped and she was very very emotional. She wanted some after care, he claimed he was too wound up to provide it.

I think that is bullshit. I think the top, dom, whatever has the responsibility to at least make it clear there will be no after care. Then the bottom can make an informed decision.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:06:27 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I am amazed at some of the replies here. People are trying to analyze the situation and ascribe theory to it, like every other freaking thing that goes on in vanilla and/or D/s relationships.

Bottom line: the OP wants what she wants and she is entitled to get it. If she does not get it after communicating articulately to her partner that she needs and wants it, then she leaves for greener pastures or she stays and deals with it.

End of story. It annoys me that some are trying to say it is irrational to want something simply because they don't relate to it. You cannot negate someone's feelings and that is that.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:11:08 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		If I ever went to a dungeon I would shout things out like.."Wack her again, ya homo!!!"..."You call that after care????"..."I've seen bigger dicks on a baby!!!"


I dig people that need a community to judge their performance.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:19:10 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		They aren't yelling boo.... they are yelling...Boog!


ObscurebaseballDom

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:20:59 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I dig people that need a community to judge their performance.


Yeah, don't those people just drive ya nuts?

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:29:22 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

They aren't yelling boo.... they are yelling...Boog!


ObscurebaseballDom




A dangerous slugger!



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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:33:59 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I dig people that need a community to judge their performance.


Yeah, don't those people just drive ya nuts?


No not really.

I find them long winded and incredibly self important. They act like to have a place within this community will get you a bowl of soup somewhere.

They expose their personal affairs out here as if it is some sort of deep baring of the soul when in all reality it is a calculated move to impress the weak minded. They challenge Goreans to mythical fist fights, they talk about their deeds within the community and they live their lives and affairs on line. They seem to think that they should lead by example because they are the cats pj's. No discretion no privacy.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Yeah, don't those people just drive ya nuts?


No not really. I actually feel rather sorry for them that they don't have more important things going on in their lives.


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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:35:16 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1



Bottom line: the OP wants what she wants and she is entitled to get it. If she does not get it after communicating articulately to her partner that she needs and wants it, then she leaves for greener pastures or she stays and deals with it.

End of story.




This.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:37:46 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I am amazed at some of the replies here. People are trying to analyze the situation and ascribe theory to it, like every other freaking thing that goes on in vanilla and/or D/s relationships.

Bottom line: the OP wants what she wants and she is entitled to get it. If she does not get it after communicating articulately to her partner that she needs and wants it, then she leaves for greener pastures or she stays and deals with it.

End of story. It annoys me that some are trying to say it is irrational to want something simply because they don't relate to it. You cannot negate someone's feelings and that is that.



Yeah, I would say that that is exactly correct, down to the leave or stay and deal with it. Thanks, red.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:52:36 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		People who go around judging others based upon physical appearance, gossiping about what other posters look like in real life... that would be the epitome of "no life"

Beauty is skin deep, ugly goes to the core

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 3:54:06 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

I guess where I am most confused is I feel everyone should choose what level of Aftercare they desire, I think some are Bullshit, I think some are ways to force a relationship that doesn't really exist. I think that some people engage in play that isn't for me and because of this I might not understand the intracasies of it.

My question is why am I not allowed to have my view on aftercare and have it found just as valid as yours.

Do any of you realize how many times I have been called Selfish, Dangerous, Uncaring, Irresponsible in this thread because my opinion doesn't match yours?

For fuck sake people, there is more than one Right answer to these kinds of questions.

Going off-line for awhile cause this is becoming more abusive than discussion.

QSM


To be honest although I haven't responded to any of your posts (sorry about that) I have been nodding every time I have read them. Obviously you do what is good and right for your dynamic. You care for your girl in a way which is entirely appropriate - including walking away for a while to get your own head straight. I applaud you for doing that, part of taking care of your girl is taking care of yourself.

Bravo!

zeph

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 4:01:59 PM   
PeanutTigerinBox


Posts: 1624
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

Well Jujubee...I think I agree wtih the crowd

You've found a lazy, selfish S.O.B. who wants all the fun of bdsm without the responsibility.

I can 100% assure you that you can do better than that! I've had doms who were crap at aftercare (in my case I'm a masochist who gets sub-drop the day after play), and with a little advice from friends who are also into bdsm, I got rid of them.

I know what I need in terms of aftercare. It's not a great deal - it's mostly communication and reassurance. If they can't be bothered to do that, then to be honest they're pretty shitty human beings. Now that I know what I need, I make sure that anyone I play with knows what they need to do too. If they don't, then I kick them to the kerb and I make it damn clear to them why they've been kicked

Keep looking - this world is full of decent doms who will actually show you some respect!


What bunny said....as great as my experiences with C-Dom were...his aftercare was crap and spoilt the whole situation....also on my last event one particular lady from the board helped me with giving me the advice I needed at that time...just a shame that she won't be able to remember that anymore by now

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RE: Aftercare - 7/1/2010 4:08:39 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		QSM,

I do get what you are saying for YOU. It did not read that you understood that other people were different.

We need what we need. It's that simple.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/1/2010 4:32:30 PM >

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I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 100
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