RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong.

RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:27:25 PM)
quote: What do people learn from me? I have always thought of myself as being one of the more well-thought out and accepting posters out here. I'm pretty damn sure that I got this shit down. Not so sure about the rest of you freaks. Help me help you. How to paint fishing lures... this may come in handy in my next relationship... who knows, it maybe one of my submissive duties to do this....

laurell3 -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:28:43 PM)
I learned very early on to laugh with you. I appreciate laughter, there's not enough of it in life. You also have your hotbuttons, they usually center around issues of people being treated really unfairly. If the truth be known your responses are predictable when they are sensical and don't come close to suggesting that you're the self-centered buffoon you make out to be. One just has to read between the lines to really get it and too many lead with their egos and not their brains.

LadyPact -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:30:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ligeia72 BTW, I just wanted to say - Laurell, and LadyPact, I find myself both noticing, and being very impressed/respectful of what you have to say. Just thought I should let you know that. [:)] Thank you. I appreciate that. I happen to think laurell's a pretty smart cookie, too. quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 LP and peon need to write again...that was HOT! Again? I'm still waiting to finish the last one. LOL.

Level -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:30:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule I do not agree that points of view by different persons and as regards different subjects are equally valid. "The well-meaning contention that all ideas have equal merit seems to me little different from the disastrous contention that no ideas have any merit" Carl Sagan

juliaoceania -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:31:36 PM)
quote: You also have your hotbuttons, they usually center around issues of people being treated really unfairly. If the truth be known your responses are predictable when they are sensical and don't come close to suggesting that you're the self-centered buffoon you make out to be. This is true... he is the seems to be a spot on bleeding heart liberal, and any "ego" we see is a front to hide his marshmallow center....

laurell3 -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:34:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: Ligeia72 BTW, I just wanted to say - Laurell, and LadyPact, I find myself both noticing, and being very impressed/respectful of what you have to say. Just thought I should let you know that. [:)] Thank you. I appreciate that. I happen to think laurell's a pretty smart cookie, too. quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 LP and peon need to write again...that was HOT! Again? I'm still waiting to finish the last one. LOL. Thank you, both of you. I'm just as confused as the next guy/gal, text can be deceiving and I think I write well on most days, when I've actually slept.

Aylee -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 8:47:22 PM)
Blah. . . blah. . . blah. . . words snipped: quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Why do we find it so difficult to see the validity of someone else’s opinion unless it mimics or at least isn’t threatening to our own? QSM Because so many people crave external validation (which is very nice by the way, I do not knock it) as a substitute for internal validation. Having someone agree with your opinion or having someone that shares an opinion, is a form of external validation. It reinforces the feelings of "okayness" and reduces personal insecurities. It is overall much easier than doing the work of self-knowledge and creating your own self worth. Which is not something you can chant yourself into believing. You earn it by working for it. The value you place on yourself as a human being will be determined by the work you do to become a thinking human being.* It seems to actually scare some people when they realize that you do not need them to validate your existence. ***That is a paraphrase of someone, but I cannot remember who.

sunshinemiss -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 9:21:14 PM)
In most instances, there is more to life than simple black and white. Life is too filled with complexities. That's the reality. Generally speaking, that is my attitude about folks. Most times it is pretty accurate. However, if you are following a "Master-slave" scenario / lifestyle, then the M-type is more responsible than in a less TPE kind of relationship. I mean if you want the kudos for having that kind of relationship, you also get the responsibilty. Best, sunshine

Ligeia72 -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/1/2010 9:23:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss In most instances, there is more to life than simple black and white. Life is too filled with complexities. That's the reality. Generally speaking, that is my attitude about folks. Most times it is pretty accurate. However, if you are following a "Master-slave" scenario / lifestyle, then the M-type is more responsible than in a less TPE kind of relationship. I mean if you want the kudos for having that kind of relationship, you also get the responsibilty. Best, sunshine Agreed. [:)]

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 7:29:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 For the record, i don't believe that all points of view are equally legitamite. Often, one arguement is more convincing than the other. i normally think that i'm the one who's right. If our opinions clash, this means i think that you're wrong. i may tell you so, in which case, you are free to tell me that i'm the one who's wrong, and then explain the reasons why. i don't think that that is offensive at all. It's just an arguement. If we start by saying that everybody's right and nobody's wrong, then we have nothing to talk about. pam And see Pam, I don't really think either one is Wrong, It may be "Wrong for Me" but that doesn't mean it is "Wrong for You" this is the thing that gets lost in translation. Julia seems to think I was calling the OP's need in another Thread Irrational, I never once said the Op was being irrational, I simply said I do not feel the need to coddle an irrational reaction. She and others took that and drew a line from one statement to the idea that I thought the Op's desire to need aftercare was irrational. It seems to me at times people need to make someone wrong to be able to stand by what they think is right. My personal opinion on things like this in the lifestyle is that you should do what makes you happy and who cares what anyone else thinks if it is making you happy do what you like. This means if you wanna call your relationship Poly because you have a weekly Threesome with a different partner you meet on the internet, then call yourself Poly, there are going to be people who adamantly state THIS IS NOT POLY, the thing is who the fuck cares, it makes them happy so that do it. What I find funny is that the Op that Julia is referring to in her post on page one asked specifically what I thought about Aftercare in General, and then went about making it all about the Op, no matter what I posted it was applied to the Op, when I stated many times that it wasn't about the Op, when I finally used the Op as an example and how I felt it was almost completely ignored, see I feel this is done because I had to be Wrong so that they could be Right, rather than seeing that Both views can be right and that who is right doesn't matter because personal responsibility dictates we determine what is right and wrong for ourselves and then find other who share out view to interact with. The thing is Pam, if we do not have differing points of view we cannot challange our own views and see if they hold up our own beliefs. As I pointed out in the Aftercare Thread because I have chosen never to engage in certain types of play my view on aftercare is that a couple of minutes to check heartrate, eye dialation, look for a smile and a kiss on the forhead while getting them a Blanket and a bottle of water is all that is ever been necessary, The aftercare that I administer is done in a everyday all the time kind of way in which I create a positive reinforcement that goes to stand beyond anything I could do in a scene, there is never doubt as to where they stand with me, and if there is it gets dealt with in the days, weeks, and months following a scene, not just a few minutes of an hour right after, moments of doubt are more dangerous in my opinion than a complete loss of faith. That is why I work on the bond at all times, aftercare is almost an every day at all times kinda thing for me. QSM

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 7:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I'll just consider this a temporary lapse of memory. No Lapse of Memory, What I am finding is that when I have what is considered an Unpopular point of view on things, I am just WRONG, as if my belief system Threatens their so much that I just have to be wrong, as if their beliefsystem and mine cannot exist in the same place at the same time. In the Aftercare thread as well as a few others I have been called, Arrogant, uncaring, dangerous, egotistical, abusive, violent, Fake, uneducatied, immature and so on ad-nauseam all because I have a different point of view on something than someone else. I find it strange that some people can be so threatened by the idea that their way is really not the only way. Again to point out that being these things in ACTUAL LIFE is never half as controvercial as when I states these beliefs in an open forum such as this, Hell sitting and talking about these things in person face to face in a MAsT setting or at a Class Workshop isn't as controvercial as it is in On-Line forums where it would seem there has to be some idea of a ONE TRUE WAY, acuse without it people get threatened. It's like SSC and RACK, I choose neither because I disagree with both, some people see this and are threatened by it, I become Dangerous because I don't agree with it, They seem to ignore that I never said I wanted to damage someone, it becomes assumed that if I don't believe in SSC or RACK that I am going out and rapeing puppies or something like that. So it's not a memory lapse, it's wondering why there is such an issue with accepting someone elses point of view as being valid, even if only valid for them when it differs from your own? QSM

RCdc -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 7:52:45 AM)
quote: No Lapse of Memory, What I am finding is that when I have what is considered an Unpopular point of view on things, I am just WRONG, as if my belief system Threatens their so much that I just have to be wrong, as if their beliefsystem and mine cannot exist in the same place at the same time. Have you never done the same to someone else? It's life. It happens. quote: In the Aftercare thread as well as a few others I have been called, Arrogant, uncaring, dangerous, egotistical, abusive, violent, Fake, uneducatied, immature and so on ad-nauseam all because I have a different point of view on something than someone else. Then my suggestion is that you are taking it too much to heart. Don't worry what other people think or say about you if you are sure of your own convictions. You and the people who are around you that you care about are who matter, that's all. the.dark.

Jeffff -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 8:40:47 AM)
I am the light and the way. WWJD

juliaoceania -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:01:02 AM)
quote: Julia seems to think I was calling the OP's need in another Thread Irrational, I never once said the Op was being irrational, I simply said I do not feel the need to coddle an irrational reaction. S Even when you say this it comes off as saying a submissive is "wrong" for needing aftercare because she is "irrational" ... it doesn't make it any better... just saying... quote: What I find funny is that the Op that Julia is referring to in her post on page one asked specifically what I thought about Aftercare in General In general I think you are saying that women who need aftercare have "irrational" needs so you do not want to be with them...it is perfectly okay you feel that way, just be prepared for others to say "Tops who do not want to provide aftercare are creepy"... I never would say that. They might be lousy for me, but they might fill someone else's needs... you did not phrase it that way... quote: Both views can be right and that who is right doesn't matter because personal responsibility dictates we determine what is right and wrong for ourselves and then find other who share out view to interact with. I do not agree, calling someone else "irrational" when they in fact do have a rational reason for wanting aftercare is just silly. Maybe you do not like their needs, maybe they do not fit you, but it is not "irrational". That is like me saying children who like to be held after a nightmare are "irrational", or someone who wants to be taken care of when they are ill is "irrational"... these are very normal and human emotions... Howabout phrasing it in a way that is all about you, and not about them? I mean howabout "Submissives who need lots of aftercare do not work for me because I tend to get in an entirely standoffish headspace and I feel they are clingy. So those types of subs are better off with another dominant"... that puts it all about you, and it isn't insulting to those who need aftercare I don't want to redebate that thread.... what I want to point out is that when I say something doesn't work for me, I make it all about me, and not the other person.... I am not a slave, it does not make those with that dynamic "crazy" or "stupid" I am not poly, that does not make poly people "irrational" because they have different needs than mine... See what I mean?

LadyPact -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:05:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan No Lapse of Memory, What I am finding is that when I have what is considered an Unpopular point of view on things, I am just WRONG, as if my belief system Threatens their so much that I just have to be wrong, as if their beliefsystem and mine cannot exist in the same place at the same time. In the Aftercare thread as well as a few others I have been called, Arrogant, uncaring, dangerous, egotistical, abusive, violent, Fake, uneducatied, immature and so on ad-nauseam all because I have a different point of view on something than someone else. I find it strange that some people can be so threatened by the idea that their way is really not the only way. Again to point out that being these things in ACTUAL LIFE is never half as controvercial as when I states these beliefs in an open forum such as this, Hell sitting and talking about these things in person face to face in a MAsT setting or at a Class Workshop isn't as controvercial as it is in On-Line forums where it would seem there has to be some idea of a ONE TRUE WAY, acuse without it people get threatened. It's like SSC and RACK, I choose neither because I disagree with both, some people see this and are threatened by it, I become Dangerous because I don't agree with it, They seem to ignore that I never said I wanted to damage someone, it becomes assumed that if I don't believe in SSC or RACK that I am going out and rapeing puppies or something like that. So it's not a memory lapse, it's wondering why there is such an issue with accepting someone elses point of view as being valid, even if only valid for them when it differs from your own? QSM Dude, you're losing sight of something. It's the net. Do you realize how many of these folks are keyboard commando's? Have you really stepped back and thought about how many of these people are just a Master or slave on Second Life? Snap out of it! You know Me. Sure, we'd sit down and talk about our differences about RACK or some such thing. Then, in 20 minutes time, we'd be having fun and who cares? It's not in the debate. It's in the doing. You have to remember what's really important.

juliaoceania -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:12:51 AM)
I agree LP, it is just the net... I also think that sometimes people aren't aware of how they project their opinions of what does not work for them personally in a way that reads as insulting to other people, because it is written. I have done it myself, written my opinion in a poorly worded format so that it looked like I was saying that people who do things differently than me were somehow flawed. And when I first started posting I was way more stubborn about my words and wanting to stand by them, instead of retracting mistaken phrasing. I have found it is really just better to change my wording than to stand by it no matter what flame war erupted around me[:D]... and then there is this other side me of me that wouldn't really ever want to hurt someone's feelings or truly offend another person, and I feel guilt when I do (silly, since this is just the interwebs, but it is true)

CalifChick -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:37:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Please understand that this has the potential to be a HEATED Thread, but if we are all adults and discuss rather than attack this can be a very CIVIL Thread. Here is hoping that we can all be adults. (snip) Why do we find it so difficult to see the validity of someone else’s opinion unless it mimics or at least isn’t threatening to our own? It's not your opinion that causes the problem. It's the delivery. Look at how you started here... in communication-speak, it's referred to as a "harsh startup". It sets a negative tone, a defensive tone in both you and the readers. The aftercare thread post started the same way, here: quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan <Sighs> And just when people were starting to like me. Aftercare in most cases is crock of shit. No not the giving of it, but the idea that it is one sided. The opening sentiments cause people to get defensive... unless I missed something, this was the first time that the notion of one-sided aftercare came up, it wasn't in the OP and it wasn't in any of the responses before yours. Combine a harsh startup with a large bold font and the perception is that you are angry and defensive. Some people also might get the perception that you are going down the "one true way" route. So people react to that - to their perception, to the way you present yourself. It's like you were having an argument with someone off the boards and you're all worked up and passionate about the topic, and then you post. It sets the tone. It's all about delivery. Cali

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:37:25 AM)
Julia, No I still don't see what you mean. Personally I think you are arguing semantics and this image you have of me that you created all by yourself. If you find... quote: "Submissives who need lots of aftercare do not work for me because I tend to get in an entirely standoffish headspace and I feel they are clingy. So those types of subs are better off with another dominant" Something you would be okay with then you just don't like the words I chose to use, because the above is Pretty close to how I feel, In reality it isn't about being standoffish, it's about in the headspace I am in I'm not wanting to cuddle, I'm not wanting to smile, I'm not wanting to pet. I'm still stuck in the head space that I am administering pain, not positive reinforcement. Give me 10 minutes let me remove myself to come to terms with myself and then I will be back. The idea that walking away to take care of yourself is abandonment IS Irrational. There is no rational basis for belief. Nothing about my matter or actions should lead someone to believe that I am leaving and not coming back. Or that I do not care about them or that I think they are a worthless piece of shit. Thinking those things because I stepped away for 10 minutes most certainly is the DEFINITION of IRRATIONAL. quote: Original: LadyPact Dude, you're losing sight of something. It's the net. Do you realize how many of these folks are keyboard commando's? LP, You and I have talked and you and I have different beliefs, we adamantly stand behind those different beliefs, we are not budging on those different beliefs, but never once have you and I ever resorted to the highschool like bullshit that gets thrown on these threads. My Point on this post is to addredd the fact that things seem much more controvercial in an On-Line forum than would ever be found in face to face communication. Almost as if some people hold onto the SecondLife Idea that any belief system that challanges their will tear their house of cards down. What I am trying to discuss in part is the difference between how you and I interact around a pool and have very different beliefs and you never once think that I am Arrogant, uncaring, dangerous, egotistical, abusive, violent, Fake, uneducatied, immature, or wat have you we discuss and talk and respect each view as being that of the other persons. You saw how I treat my girl and you saw how happy she is and how in love we really are and in the end you don't make up crazy ass beliefs and lable me as being akin to a sociopath because you don't like how I phrased something. Just because what I say is wrong for you, does not mean to me that what you do is wrong, it just isn't right for me. QSM

juliaoceania -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:43:01 AM)
quote: The idea that walking away to take care of yourself is abandonment IS Irrational. There is no rational basis for belief. Nothing about my matter or actions should lead someone to believe that I am leaving and not coming back. Or that I do not care about them or that I think they are a worthless piece of shit. Thinking those things because I stepped away for 10 minutes most certainly is the DEFINITION of IRRATIONAL. You have managed to make this all about you and then managed to extrapolate that to everyone else... the desire of all submissives to have aftercare is not a crock of shit, it is not irrational, and it has nothing to do with your personal experiences....

juliaoceania -> RE: You may not be right... That doesn't make you wrong. (7/2/2010 9:44:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Please understand that this has the potential to be a HEATED Thread, but if we are all adults and discuss rather than attack this can be a very CIVIL Thread. Here is hoping that we can all be adults. (snip) Why do we find it so difficult to see the validity of someone else’s opinion unless it mimics or at least isn’t threatening to our own? It's not your opinion that causes the problem. It's the delivery. Look at how you started here... in communication-speak, it's referred to as a "harsh startup". It sets a negative tone, a defensive tone in both you and the readers. The aftercare thread post started the same way, here: quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan <Sighs> And just when people were starting to like me. Aftercare in most cases is crock of shit. No not the giving of it, but the idea that it is one sided. The opening sentiments cause people to get defensive... unless I missed something, this was the first time that the notion of one-sided aftercare came up, it wasn't in the OP and it wasn't in any of the responses before yours. Combine a harsh startup with a large bold font and the perception is that you are angry and defensive. Some people also might get the perception that you are going down the "one true way" route. So people react to that - to their perception, to the way you present yourself. It's like you were having an argument with someone off the boards and you're all worked up and passionate about the topic, and then you post. It sets the tone. It's all about delivery. Cali QSM, You would be well served to read the above and take it heart

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