RE: Feminism and submission

RE: Feminism and submission (Full Version)

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crazyml -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:24:46 PM)
Ok, I think I'm in lust with you too... poppet <smirks-then-runs>

Aynne88 -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:32:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB Maybe you're right about my choice of people to pursue this with, but my Dom insists that he's a feminist. It seems that a lot of Doms do around here [:)] That's because unlike me, they don't have the balls to state what they really think of women. I know where women belong and I have no problem putting them into that place. I'm going to fire a guy tomorrow morning Michael and when I do, I am going to be thinking of this as I "put him in his place." It's fucking good to be the boss. Thanks for reminding me why. Oh and I am going to make him get me a cup of coffee first. Yep you know your place alright, Aynne smooch Any chance of video? Smooch back! I'd love to send you a video, a couple of different ones actually.....[;)].

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:39:42 PM)
quote: Smooch back! I'd love to send you a video, a couple of different ones actually...... Why do I get the feeling this has nothing to do with this thread?

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:41:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Ok, I think I'm in lust with you too... poppet <smirks-then-runs> Ohohoh flirting! I'm pretty sure there is something about that in the Dom's Handbook advising against this

Aynne88 -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:41:50 PM)
Because you know me? [;)].

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:44:59 PM)
THAT'S IT!!! Hmmmm looks like Michael has nothing to say, wonder why?

crazyml -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:50:05 PM)
fair cop. I shall take two "flirt-be-gone" pills at once. To the op - Beware the pseudo-feminist male who seeks to convince you that the work of feminists like Greer and De Beauvoir "misunderstands the true nature of femininity". It's not for me to tell you how your femininity or your feminism should be defined - I'm disqualified on account of my having a cock. I can say whether I think you're wrong... but to me the whole bloomin point of the feminist movement is to allow YOU to define yourself, not listen to some dude pontificating about how those nasty (and surely "mostly lesbian") bra-burning feminists are denying the essential softness/perfumy/mushy essence of the female sex. The key to me is that my grandmother didn't have the option to define her role, my mum fought for it (and got arrested a few times on the way) and my contemporary female cousins are benefitting from it. The biggest threat I see to feminism is the sneaky attempt that patriarchy (allied with some ultra-con female goons) is making to regain control of the definition of femininity - and therefore set aside the work of people like my mom (who was perfectly able to square her feminism with being a stay-at-home mother as it happens). [Ed for typos]

Aynne88 -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth THAT'S IT!!! Hmmmm looks like Michael has nothing to say, wonder why? Zephyr he is busy putting women in their place. Pay attention! lol.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 2:59:36 PM)
[sm=doh.gif] of course.....though he never did say where that place is

SimplyMichael -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 3:24:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth THAT'S IT!!! Hmmmm looks like Michael has nothing to say, wonder why? Zephyr he is busy putting women in their place. Pay attention! lol. I figured that bait was too tempting for people to pass up but my views on women are too well known for it to work. I think it still showed why we don't get many men putting women down, too many of the women here are rather fierce.

crazyml -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 3:28:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I figured that bait was too tempting for people to pass up but my views on women are too well known for it to work. I think it still showed why we don't get many men putting women down, too many of the women here are rather fierce. Well, fair play - at least - to you for being willing to be stand up and counted for your views. But, I really would take it as a favour if you wouldn't suggest that my support for equality is down to a lack of courage on my part.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 3:29:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth THAT'S IT!!! Hmmmm looks like Michael has nothing to say, wonder why? Zephyr he is busy putting women in their place. Pay attention! lol. I figured that bait was too tempting for people to pass up but my views on women are too well known for it to work. I think it still showed why we don't get many men putting women down, too many of the women here are rather fierce. Apparently not all THAT well known or we wouldn't have "fallen for it"

Jeffff -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 3:52:00 PM)
Micheal likes women. That was sarcasm ML His sig line kinda says it all.

crazyml -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 3:59:50 PM)
Ouch! If my sarcasm detector is faulty, then my very sincere apologies!

Plasticine -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 4:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Beware the pseudo-feminist male who seeks to convince you that the work of feminists like Greer and De Beauvoir "misunderstands the true nature of femininity". It's not for me to tell you how your femininity or your feminism should be defined - I'm disqualified on account of my having a cock. I can say whether I think you're wrong... but to me the whole bloomin point of the feminist movement is to allow YOU to define yourself, not listen to some dude pontificating about how those nasty (and surely "mostly lesbian") bra-burning feminists are denying the essential softness/perfumy/mushy essence of the female sex. The key to me is that my grandmother didn't have the option to define her role, my mum fought for it (and got arrested a few times on the way) and my contemporary female cousins are benefitting from it. The biggest threat I see to feminism is the sneaky attempt that patriarchy (allied with some ultra-con female goons) is making to regain control of the definition of femininity - and therefore set aside the work of people like my mom (who was perfectly able to square her feminism with being a stay-at-home mother as it happens). This is a great critique. I have to honestly say I had not considered this outside view of my stance. Although you clearly are not in support of my thoughts in this case, this is very useful. It certainly explains the specific flavor of reaction that puzzled me. This is really exactly not what I am doing, but I can see why people would rush to defend that embankment in response. Thanks for being thoughtful. My interests lie in improving balance in the culture for everyone. If all that stuff I posted seemed like a man serving agenda, well I'm honestly taken aback; But that's very good to know. I did say that I think men are in the same yet opposite predicament, so... I really don't know what to make of any of this. All I was really saying is that we have a lot of oppressive cultural ideas in play that prevent both men and women from realizing and expressing their full selves. It's the source of so much angst that is served up in popular culture and its making everyone less happy than they could be. I absolutely have a confirmation bias here but I view the extreme reactions as further proof not as contradiction. I am not interested in suppressing any part of anyone, I'm interested in getting people to stop suppressing themselves and to relax into easy self control.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 4:07:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Ouch! If my sarcasm detector is faulty, then my very sincere apologies! winces it appears mine is broken too, I apologise too

crazyml -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 4:25:53 PM)
I wouldn't say it was "great" as a critique, and I was over-characterising for effect. Now if you'd said this at the very start: quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine All I was really saying is that we have a lot of oppressive cultural ideas in play that prevent both men and women from realizing and expressing their full selves. It's the source of so much angst that is served up in popular culture and its making everyone less happy than they could be. Then I'd have been much less snarky ;-) I am, however, very sensitive to the whole "redefinition" thing - because I get a sense that the younger generation is too decadent to realise that many of the rights their parents fought for are at risk.

marie2 -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 4:34:28 PM)
I don't know if I would consider myself a feminist in the way that the word is often thrown around. I believe in equal rights for both genders, and that's about the extent of it for me. As far as feeling some conflict with your submission, well, I think it all comes down to the angle you choose to view it from. You're a female, you feel you have the "right" to live in whatever way you choose, make your own decisions, live your life on your own terms, right? Ok, so you like/want/need/enjoy giving someone (a male) authority over you, on whatever various levels that it works for you, so you're doing that. You've made a choice, you've pursued what you wanted, and you've gotten it. Where is the weakness or inferiority in having what you want? Who cares if your ds conflicts with society's idea of "feminism". If you're going to allow that to influence and headfuck your happiness, then who's really the "master" of your life? It's not you, and you're no longer the strong female who is living her life on her own terms. Just be what you want to be and don't worry about conforming to some collective "ideal" that you imagine is out there; it's not.

Plasticine -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 4:36:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml I am, however, very sensitive to the whole "redefinition" thing - because I get a sense that the younger generation is too decadent to realise that many of the rights their parents fought for are at risk. I just don't see as a threat. Society is growing increasingly liberal and human rights are now front page news. I don't think anyone is going to get put "back in the box", nor would I ever want that.

crazyml -> RE: Feminism and submission (7/4/2010 4:39:03 PM)
Yeah, but that's because you're a "glass is half full" kind of guy, whereas I'm a "the glass is DOOOOOMED, DOOOMED I TELL YOU!" kinda guy.

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