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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 2:58:45 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
I also think that saying we change our limits doesn't really have much to do with idiots and/or people that don't listen or give ultimatums. I don't do idiots.


So would you agree that threatening to end the relationship when someone won't change a limit that you have always been aware of is an ultimatum?

*edited to say what I meant to say instead of what my hands apparently wanted to say




I'm not sure that it matters what you call a threat to end a relationship or why you do it, the day that happens, for me, it's over.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:03:43 PM   
Jeffff


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Slaves have no rights!

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:08:04 PM   
mnottertail


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new jersey is all right hand turns, even manhattan during the day you can't make a left

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:08:58 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Slaves have no rights!


*blows him a kiss*

The day you start calling me that is the day I send you for a full psychological evaluation.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:12:28 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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You two are so fucking cute. Now I know how sickening Shore and I must seem.

Hahahahaha. Spelling edit.

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 7/12/2010 3:13:11 PM >


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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:19:42 PM   
laurell3


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We are not cute and DEFINITELY not as bad as you and Shore!

You have mail.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 7/12/2010 3:20:21 PM >


_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:20:59 PM   
mnottertail


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDkENS4saAY

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 3:22:04 PM   
laurell3


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LOL! Ron have you been drinking today?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 6:00:19 PM   
Andalusite


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AQSM, I think I get where you and Jujubee are running into conflict.  If I understand correctly, you try to date people only if their non-negotiable limits aren't areas you aren't interested in.  If it's a negotiable limit that they are open to exploring with you, but not right away, then that's fine, and some things you're ok with doing with other people rather than her, but won't refrain from completely.  She didn't say you're doing anything wrong, just that she wouldn't be compatible with anyone who had your approach to limits.  If I knew upfront that someone liked pushing limits, and he wanted something, I wouldn't date him unless I was darned sure going into it that I could do that with him.  Most likely, I just would turn him down, just as he'd have the right to turn me down for not wanting it.  Realistically, though, going into a relationship, a lot of things are subject to change, or don't happen to come up in conversation.  I try to discuss things and get as much of a sense of their needs and desires as possible, but I don't want to feel like, "Oh, gotta add that one to my limits list" all the time.  If someone seems like they're going to nag or guilt me or uses ultimatums to get their way, I don't want to date him, even our limits, chemistry, an everything else is a good match.  It's not a "fair" way of fighting/conflict resolution.

Jujubee, I think you're saying that your limits are pretty set in stone, for medical or other serious reasons.  If someone has incompatibilities with your limits, you won't date him unless he agrees not to bring it up.  You might change your mind later, but if you tell him that something is a hard limit, you don't want any further discussion on it.

I've dated a couple of people before who nagged about a boundary I had (not necessarily set in stone, but at least a "not right now"), and it really destroys trust.  The first couple of times I ran into it, I assumed there was a miscommunication, but it became clear that they just didn't respect my boundaries.  So, I had to dump them.

There's nothing wrong with refusing to date someone for any reason, including incompatible limits.  If someone says, "Ok, you don't have to do x, but we might check back in at some point," then nags, guilt trips, or threatens to dump the person for not doing x, then they are a dishonorable person.  If x is that important to them, they shouldn't have gotten involved with someone who had any qualms whatsoever about doing x.  Unfortunately, some people get so blinded by "hey, I want him/her" that they don't really focus on compatibility, or don't realize how important x is to them until they have to do without.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 7/12/2010 6:33:33 PM >

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 6:12:34 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Slaves have no rights!


*blows him a kiss*

The day you start calling me that is the day I send you for a full psychological evaluation.


Let me tell a story about a man named Jeffff,
a poor slave keeper barely kept his charges fed.
Then one day he was naked at the pool,
Out of the yard came a-domi that fool.

Gold that is, black gold, Chicago style ;)

STOMP :)

Don't call laurell a slave, you bitch.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 6:13:51 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

LOL! Ann have you been drinking today?


I fixed your post laurell. .

Oui.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 6:37:14 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

AQSM, I think I get where you and Jujubee are running into conflict.  If I understand correctly, you try to date people only if their non-negotiable limits aren't areas you aren't interested in.  If it's a negotiable limit that they are open to exploring with you, but not right away, then that's fine, and some things you're ok with doing with other people rather than her, but won't refrain from completely.


That is really accurate..... would you mind writing all my opinion posts.... you said it better.

About the only thing I would add is that nothing is hidden, I am very clear about how I will address the negotiable things that they just aren't ready for just yet. I also make it clear which ones I am not going to NOT do, meaning they know if they cannot do something, it does not mean I will leave them, but I reserve the opinion to have that desire filled elsewhere and by someone else even if that means engaging in a complete relationship style connection with said person who is willing to meet that need. I also tell them flat out that if they cannot agree to that then they should not accept my collar as having made my position clear on the subject changing your mind would result in friction which could require the termination of our relationship. This is all explained BEFORE we are ever even a "WE"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I've dated a couple of people before who nagged about a boundary I had (not necessarily set in stone, but at least a "not right now"), and it really destroys trust.  The first couple of times I ran into it, I assumed there was a miscommunication, but it became clear that they just didn't respect my boundaries.  So, I had to dump them.

There's nothing wrong with refusing to date someone for any reason, including incompatible limits.  If someone says, "Ok, you don't have to do x, but we might check back in at some point," then nags, guilt trips, or threatens to dump the person for not doing x, then they are a dishonorable person.  If x is that important to them, they shouldn't have gotten involved with someone who had any qualms whatsoever about doing x.  Unfortunately, some people get so blinded by "hey, I want him/her" that they don't really focus on compatibility, or don't realize how important x is to them until they have to do without.


I read the last paragraph and I could easily see where someone would assume that what "X" does to you is what I do to my partner. This is not true. I present education, example, and discussion and then I ask how they feel on the subject and what their issues remain to be with said activity. If it is still an issue of panic, anxiety, or fear, then we again agree to either shelve the discussion till a later date or make a decision that it is ust something that they aren't willing to address anymore.

I see this as a BUILDING of trust, one that says I understand you have an issue with this, and this is really not an issue for me and I know I can personally do it safely, I have also seen the enjoyment that can be had from such an activity..... However I respect that it is an issue for you and am not wanting to make your fears a reality, however at the same time, I believe that if you attempted this with me on a minor scale that perhaps we could find common ground on this.

Some things you can only trust another with when you do it with them and they don't let you down.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/12/2010 6:55:40 PM   
Andalusite


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Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant "x" as the activity, not the person.   I agree there are lots of things I was scared by at first, though I didn't call them limits.  I focused on "how can I play with 'x' in a way that feels safe and comfortable to me" instead of "No 'x' ever!1!!!!"   I mostly had really positive introductions to them, when I felt ready, but my first experience with needleplay went really badly, and I nearly passed out.  It put me off of them for years, but I tried bottoming to them again a few months back, and really enjoyed them.  I usually try to keep an open mind that a single bad experience doesn't necessarily mean I should never try it again.  Here's the thread I wrote about it.  When my Master and I started dating, there were several things he wanted that I was nervous about, but I didn't consider to be limits.  We discussed it, brainstormed baby steps, and he was very supportive and encouraging.  If I couldn't manage it at the level he wanted, or got scared, he never made me feel like a failure, and instead praised me for trying.  I never felt that I was fighting against him, only against my own fears, my own limitations.  In gymnastics and yoga, there were lots of moves I was physically incapable of doing at all (not even just a mediocre effort) at first, but over time, I became more strong, flexible, balanced, an comfortable with my body.  All of a sudden, wow, I could do it after all! 

I think that the same thing applies to a lot of other areas, and so trying with a different person, or in different circumstances, or even just in a different position can make a huge difference  I think one aspect that really matters is that a lot of newbies aren't educated about those scary things, and how to do them as safely and enjoyably as possible.  Someone posted about 2 dozen cane strikes being a severe punishment, and I pointed out that I've had sensual canings that lasted for an hour or more, for hundreds of strikes, that left welts and bruises for a month afterward, but I loved.  You just don't do all of them full-power, make sure the person is warmed up enough, stuff like that.  Some Dominants seem to really get off on terrifying newbies with new tools, starting out with way more than he or she can handle.  I think that can be hot under the right circumstances, but not for introducing a new toy or activity.

Generally speaking, I assume someone can make me love or hate almost any toy or activity, depending on how they use it on me.  I try to date people long enough before making a commitment to build trust, and I've rarely had to defend myself from someone pushing or nagging.  I've had a couple of bad experiences before I learned better how to judge, but I was mostly able to head things off before it got too bad.  Some guys are really jerks about doing that sort of thing, so it's not surprising that some people misunderstood and thought you were saying, "If she won't do 'x,' I'll keep bugging her until she gives in."

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 7/12/2010 7:04:29 PM >

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/17/2010 10:34:45 AM   
txurinal


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Once again, it all boils down to trust. You must trust the person (s) you are with before any thought of pushing limits. Although i listed just a few "hard" limits, some things discussed here would frankly, terrify me. Things like knife play or fire play.

Now does that mean these are hard limits never to be breached. Again, it would depend on the trust and comfort i had in the DOMINANT. When you submit to someone and "allow" them to tie you up, gag, and blindfold you, you are really putting your life into their hands.

At a first meeting with a DOMINANT once, we were talking about the session and i really just got a bad feeling. Somehow i feared HE might not be as "respectful" of limits as HE promised. i left which i guess is the ultimate last word, one can leave

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/17/2010 2:22:18 PM   
gungadin09


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My limits aren't pushable. In fact, they push back. If You try to bully up on my limits, they will bitch slap You, sucker. Watch out. First they get You in a headgrip. Then they pull down Your pants and give You a wedgie. Then, they start slapping You like a little girl. Finally, they take Your lunch money, and leave You crying in the hall. Don't try to push around my limits. You've been warned.

pam

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/17/2010 3:32:29 PM   
jujubeeMB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
My limits aren't pushable. In fact, they push back. If You try to bully up on my limits, they will bitch slap You, sucker. Watch out. First they get You in a headgrip. Then they pull down Your pants and give You a wedgie. Then, they start slapping You like a little girl. Finally, they take Your lunch money, and leave You crying in the hall. Don't try to push around my limits. You've been warned.


I like you

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/17/2010 3:44:06 PM   
gungadin09


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Thanks! Hugs jujubeeMB.

pam

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/18/2010 12:13:29 AM   
reynardfox


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A limit is a limit, that's why it's called a  limit.
If you want to push someone's limits, try the speed limit.
That might turn the cop on.

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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/18/2010 9:43:52 AM   
ErrynRed


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I don't have a lot of hard limits, mostly things like anything with fecal or piss, having my upper arms restrained(it causes panic attacks), and anything with needles(again, can cause panic attacks), and I refuse rape plays, or anything simulated wth rape.

My reasons are usually either hygenic, or because I've had a bad experience and it's not something I can ever put with sex. My soft limits are more, but they can slide depending on how much I trust the person I'm subbing for, or how much I care for the person I'm domming.


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RE: How "Pushable" are your Limits. - 7/18/2010 12:24:21 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Generally speaking, I assume someone can make me love or hate almost any toy or activity, depending on how they use it on me.  I try to date people long enough before making a commitment to build trust, and I've rarely had to defend myself from someone pushing or nagging.  I've had a couple of bad experiences before I learned better how to judge, but I was mostly able to head things off before it got too bad.  Some guys are really jerks about doing that sort of thing, so it's not surprising that some people misunderstood and thought you were saying, "If she won't do 'x,' I'll keep bugging her until she gives in."


Andalusite,

In my opinion it always goes back to the decision made at the onset. I'm not about to posit that I'll enter a dynamic as a slave or property and tell the other person that these things are off limits. If I want the authority to do so I should give my position some serious rethinking. My areas of discomfort are merely that and I know they're movable. I don't entertain the amputation limb hacking arguments because that's pretty obvious.

However, I'm realistic about what I want and the level of enslavement I seek. It cannot be predicated on my will. And if I cannot allow myself to give fully to his he's clearly not the right choice in my opinion. For me, it isn't about all the things I won't do when I'm considering a prospect, but having the opportunity to experience full captivity instead. I don't and will never like everything he asks or says, but in the end that's precisely what it boils down to. His word, not mine.

I believe many people that look upon this road do so with rose colored lenses and very unrealistic expectations. Typing the words and living them is another thing altogether. I always caution submissives to consider all the things he doesn't say, recognize nothing is static and change is always on the menu, and to give great consideration to what being owned means to him rather than the notion they've contrived in their mind.

~porcelaine


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His will; my fate.

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