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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 12:34:40 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		I gave the definition according to the DSM-IV, which is the criteria any psychiatrist will use. 13 or younger, 5 years difference in age. Look it up yourself. Btw, did you ever see her pictures?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 6:34:45 AM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		You're an idiot.

Now you can be happy, by your standards you just won the argument....by anyone else whose read the thread, you aren't even understanding your own sources.

I can well understand why people get het up about such subjects, and I don't wanna get get stuck between you and julia....well, not in this context. Maybe it's best to just leave this subject alone, and go back to the thread topic...if there's anything left to discuss.

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 6:48:12 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		You lose an argument and reduce yourself to name calling.... lol... but im the idiot. Life is indeed sunny on your side of the street, Woody.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 8:32:56 AM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		FR

I'm afraid that this whole issue has an international political dimension to it that people don't mention.  Switzerland has had a reputation of kowtowing to pressure from big military powers since its neutrality in WW2 and because of the enduring use of its banking system by some of the world's greatest criminals.  It wants to shake off this reputation.  They Swiss would have been looking for a way of preventing the USA getting its way, and the USA gave it to them by refusing to surrender relevant documents.  French leaders know that it's political suicide to look as though they're falling in line with the USA - and that's been the case for decades.  Finally, the USA, thanks to Bush's regime and its anti-terrorist policies, now has a very marked reputation for bullying other countries into giving up their residents so that they can be taken back to the USA - or elsewhere - and treated in a way that other countries would deem unacceptable. 

This isn't solely about Polanski's past sins and present reputation.  It's about the past sins and present reputations of at least three different nations.


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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 9:03:36 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

- and treated in a way that other countries would deem unacceptable. 




I am with you until the above....what is the acceptable way in other countries to treat a convicted rapist?

Butch

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 9:16:51 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

- and treated in a way that other countries would deem unacceptable. 




I am with you until the above....what is the acceptable way in other countries to treat a convicted rapist?

Butch


Bear in mind I'm saying 'this is how it is' rather than 'this is how it should be'.

That said: the focus of your question is wrong.  I'm not talking about how a criminal is treated - I'm talking about who is doing the treating of the criminal.  As someone put it to me recently, re the US government and Polanski respectively, 'A bully, torturer and murderer claiming it wants justice for a child-rapist - what's to choose between them?'  - OK, an extreme view, and no doubt outdated . . . but you get the picture.

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 10:17:50 AM   
splorff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


I wonder if I went to Switzerland got a 13 year old girl drunk then raped her if I could walk away free?




It works the other way around too Butch.

About 10-20 years ago an American guy murdered an English woman here in England. He just crammed her body into the boot/trunk and left here there to rot. Then he flew back to the states. They knew who he was - it was the victims boyfriend. The USA would not extradite the creep. The reason being something to do with your constitution. I cant remember what it was exactly now. But he got off scott free with murder.

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 10:23:44 AM   
splorff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

but there are also plenty of 13 year olds who could pass for 18.


I had a D cup at 13


In the UK a few years ago a 16 year old boy and his 15 year old girlfriend had sex and it came to light. He ended up in court for a sexual felony. He had been 15 years old just a few weeks before.

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 11:25:39 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Two wrongs don't make a right...as they say

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 11:30:47 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		If you listen to others it is not worth sending him back because he would only receive 24 more days in jail...hardly a bully or torturous. May I ask where you are from what is the penalty for rape?

We are talking laws and agreements between countries…not the feelings of the local population.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 12:02:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you listen to others it is not worth sending him back because he would only receive 24 more days in jail...hardly a bully or torturous. May I ask where you are from what is the penalty for rape?

We are talking laws and agreements between countries…not the feelings of the local population.

Butch


The man I was talking to was referring to the US government under Bush as a bully, murderer and torturer.  He was talking in the context of its actions around the world against terrorism.  A lot of countries - the UK very much included - have come under the hammer for giving up suspected terrorists to the USA only to see them eventually go free without charge, but after protracted, harsh treatment.   The result, now, is that the governments of a lot of nations are that bit more reluctant to allow extradition requests from the USA - for any reason, any crime or accusation - to go forward.

Again, your focus is wrong when you ask about the penalty for rape where I live (which is the UK).  I was focusing on the US government's standing with the Swiss and French governments particularly.  

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 3:10:11 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		What a crock of crap...so Bush is an asshole...I agree... so rapist can go free because of his policies. You can tell your friend I'm sorry now will he please put criminals in jail. There I kissed his ass now he can take care of the fucked up world himself and stop expecting us to do it for him.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 4:56:05 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		You're not getting what I'm saying, kdsub.  That's just how it is with politics.  Whatever leverage the US might have had on the Swiss and the French regarding getting and holding Polanski has been weakened by what the Bush regime did.  It's the just the price that inevitably has to get paid.

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 6:48:14 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

You're not getting what I'm saying, kdsub.  That's just how it is with politics.  Whatever leverage the US might have had on the Swiss and the French regarding getting and holding Polanski has been weakened by what the Bush regime did.  It's the just the price that inevitably has to get paid.



No you don't understand me...Your very idea of why this slime ball is walking is why I said the Swiss were lousy and the French dumb assed. I knew all along the political bent...and that is what is wrong with this whole thing.

They are letting politics override justice and common sense.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/14/2010 9:38:10 PM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		What I forgot to ask earlier:

If the US wanted him extradited, and the Swiss need this transcript to do that, why did the US decide to not simply release it?

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/15/2010 7:22:25 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

They are letting politics override justice and common sense.



Politics always does override justice and common sense. It's a fundamental mistake to assume that politics can somehow be separated off anyway.  Governments have to be as moral as individual citizens, if not more so.  It's completely hopeless to ask for that to be otherwise.

What the French and Swiss are doing, kdsub, as I've tried to say, is seeing it in terms of Mr Polanski versus 'Mr US government' - as two equal entities.  As far as the French and Swiss are concerned the US government isn't automatically of a higher moral standing just because it's a government.  Mr Polanski's moral reputation isn't as tarnished as that of Mr USG.  In fact, he's highly celebrated in French-speaking Europe particularly, whereas Mr USG very much isn't.   Mr USG can rest on the automatic respect and regard he gets, most of the time, at home - but he can't rest on it in the context of world politics.  

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RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/15/2010 8:43:57 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Hi calamitysandra

I don't really know but I would guess this is not required in the agreements between the nations. Otherwise it should not be required that a decision be judged by another government entity. He was already tried and convicted under our laws and the Swiss laws mean nothing. But keep in mind this would only hold if there were a prior agreement.

If a Swiss were convicted of rape and a fugitive in the US the Swiss would not appreciate a retrial in US courts to see if the conviction was justified. There is also the matter of privacy of those involved on an international scale.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/15/2010 10:37:03 AM   
splorff


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Status: offline 		True. I think there is now a useful agreement as of 2003.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Two wrongs don't make a right...as they say

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/15/2010 10:44:14 AM   
splorff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

May I ask where you are from what is the penalty for rape?



Butch


That all depends who the judge is Butch. Here in the UK people go to jail for not paying the Council Tax [ a nasty tax everyone dislikes]. Meanwhile drunken drivers, vicious thugs etc seem to often get ridiculously small fines, and no jail time.

There is no consistency at all it often seems.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Lousy Swiss…dumb assed French - 7/15/2010 10:47:14 AM   
splorff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

What I forgot to ask earlier:

If the US wanted him extradited, and the Swiss need this transcript to do that, why did the US decide to not simply release it?


Presumably there is something in the document that the US authorities do not want to share with those of the Swiss

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 120
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