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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

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ORIGINAL: Kana

"Who punishes the dominant?"

IDK about anyone else, but I have this pesky little thing called a conscience...

And subs don't??

This is a "logic-wreck"... there was -never- any implication that individuals who yield authority do not have a conscience. However, those who choose to participate in relationships where punishment is part of the dynamic DO yield the "right of correction" to the individual to whom they yield authority.... so whether or not they have a conscience, they will still be required to answer to that authority.

That being said, for most individuals who HOLD the authority, they are the sole "disciplinarian" for themselves, and THAT is the point Kana was making when he answered the OP by declaring that -his own conscience- was the "disciplinary factor" for his mistakes.

Implying that stating such (which is accurate) is somehow a slam against submissive individuals and that it implies that he believes that submissive individuals don't have a conscience is a straw man argument and has no place in reasonable debate on the subject.

Calla

What I am getting at is, if having a conscience is good enough for the Dom, why isnt it for the sub, why does the sub have to be subjected to punishment other than that?

It's my own thing, I know people like it, I just dont find it necessery.

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ORIGINAL: NymphetamineGirl

Often, he has already forgiven me, but I need a punishment to help me forgive myself, let go, move on.  He does not do this because he likes to, but to help me get past it.  This is never something I am told to subject to, rather it is consentual, and I am grateful for it.  This is because I have the character defect of beating myself up, not because of my position as a sub.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

Now, a few side thoughts.
I don't quite understand what the whole fucking focus is on punishment around here. If I have had a slave for an extended period of time and she's not behaving, it means either she is approaching things from a bad head space or attitude, which usually results in adios, or I am doing something wrong.
Consequences aren't fun, for me or for her. I don't like to have to give em, and she most certainly doesn't like to get em and in sooth, I rarely have to resort to such measures.
Why?
Because she's a terrific slave. Finding fault with her performance is like finding flaws in Michelangelo's Pieta. And that's saying something because I am a persnickety bitch.
In five years, I bet she's gotten less than fifty strokes as a consequence.
I'd like to puff my chest out and say I had a whole lot to do with that (and I did in that I chose well but that's about it) but that would be so much BS. She's a great slave, in many ways less because of what she does, in and out of shackles, but more because of the attitude she has and her mentality.
She likes to serve and frankly, most slaves I've met hate punishment. There is not a damn thing they like about it. It's awful, miserable and a horrendous experience. Not because of the physical consequences, but because of the emotive and internal costs and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

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ORIGINAL: whitekat

So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions?

I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone?

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

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ORIGINAL: whitekat

So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions?

I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone?

Well, I didn't read any responses yet, so forgive me if this is redundant, but first of all I wouldn't be with someone that was so frigging stupid that they made a lot of bad behavior decisions and I certainly am not the type of woman to be quiet if he did. My guy respects my opinion and if I tell him I think he is making a mistake, he takes that into consideration. I would not be with someone so arrogant that I could not voice my thoughts when I saw him being less than correct. Fortunately that is not often, and I say it with respect, but I would do that for a friend or anyone else as well.   

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why would I want to be with someone who kept fucking up?

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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why would I want to be with someone who kept fucking up?

<Snip>
Do you mean constantly having accident's or willful mistakes?

<Snip>
The two things I've learned and have tried to remember from my time working with him was you have to give people a real chance and just because I think something is easy doesn't mean it really is for others.

<Snip>

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ORIGINAL: Rogue886

Well as far as I am concerned if I make mistakes then I hope My girl would tell Me. As a lot of ppl on these boards have said before it comes down to communication & respect. I freely admit I am nowhere near perfect, & therefrore have & will make mistakes. And personally I`d rather know what My mistakes were so I can try to avoid making them again.

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I will sit down and work with any sub, one of the reasons I do not have a Punishment Dynamic is because I believe I have no right to be upset unless I know for certain that she just didn't care, If she cannot finish a task in the time I want it done I want to learn why... is it because she is having issues with the task, or is it because she is Procrastinating for the entire day and waiting till the last minute.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1
These punishment threads are interesting to me. My own dynamic is not about being punished for real.

It is for fun and its hot.

On the other hand, if someone in my life, on any level, including a Dominant screws up with me, I open my mouth and we discuss it, communicate and try to compromise a solution.

If someone in my life on any level, including a Dominant continues to screw up and refuses to discuss, communicate or compromise a solution, then I am likely to leave the situation.

1. The first person to punish an errant Dominant is him or herself (assuming he or she is aware of their misdeeds and other general screw-ups). My tag line states it rather emphatically I think..
2. The second person to punish the Dominant, albeit possibly indirectly, is his or her submissive or slave by the loss of trust and or respect and even in some cases the stated desire to leave the relationship. Of course if the Dominant is truly remorseful and wishes to make amends (possibly of something he or she has inadvertently done due to lack of knowledge or experience or through haste), this need not necessarily happen especially if she is in a position to help him learn and evolve. 
3. The third person/s to punish the Dominant is his peer group, provided that he recognises them and is willing to take to heart their admonitions and suggestions. 

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

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ORIGINAL: Kana

"Who punishes the dominant?"

IDK about anyone else, but I have this pesky little thing called a conscience...

And subs don't??

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ORIGINAL: lally2

if a Dominant gets something wrong they can appologise, make the necessary adjustment and put things back but a sub doesnt have that facility always, they cant reajust what they did wrong, its still there hanging in the air to them, they can apologise, but its still hanging in the air.

small example would be - dominant repeatedly tells sub that right now hes very busy, stretched to capacity and needs to focus on stuff other than her.  she continues to feel insecure and continues to ask him why he hasnt made contact.  he repeats the affirmation calmly and she sits back feeling bad that she'd harrassed him when he really wasnt able to deal with her needs right then.  the thing is she can apologise but her need to make it up to him somehow, just doesnt go away.  she cant take back what she did even when the Dominant has moved on and forgotten her wobble.

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ORIGINAL: Focus50

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ORIGINAL: whitekat

So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions?

I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves.

Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone?

What a strange question... lol

When the girl screws up, she has to deal with me. But when I screw up, I've got the toughest taskmaster of all to appease. There's no escape; he waits patiently for me in every mirror. It's not a physical reflection so much as a reflection of my conscience, personal standards and sense of justice.

There's no bullshitting that fella.... And getting rid of all mirrors won't work either, 'cause then he won't let me sleep. Pfffft, at worst the girl only gets half an hour in the corner...!

Focus.

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
I'm a little shell shocked by what you just said, because I know how two dominant friends of mine would react if a submissive did that to them. Two very different men with two very different approaches, but one result: the formerly frozen sub would be close to catatonic at the end of each treatment.