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RE: held in a fist or not - 8/2/2010 10:02:30 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I have to echo was Kyra said.  My job is not to make his life easier, it is to obey and to completely be myself.  That is what he enjoys.  He lets me know what he wants of me.  Sometimes it enhances his mood more to do things for me, rather than the other way around.  And there are some things he prefers to do himself.

In my last relationship it was all about making his world better, but that relationship was more Owner/property in nature.  This relationship is about both of us.  It gives him pleasure to see me live a happy, healthy, well balanced life. 

That said, we don't depend on each other for our happinessWe find that within ourselvesWe certainly add to and enhance each others happiness, but we're not the actual source of it.


All of this.

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: held in a fist or not - 8/2/2010 12:12:40 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

is submission ALL about handing everything over, even our ability to assimilate right and wrong or do we totally rely on our Dominants to remind us of our submission. is it the physical more than the mental that holds our attention and if the Dominant should fail momentarily to respond to petulance or pushing do we really need to be reminded that we are just as culpable and capable of bringing ourselves back to that place they expect us to be.


~Direct reply~

I haven't read the responses to this, so I hope I'm not completely off base with my response.

I can only speak to my own preferences. For me, I prefer having submissive individuals in my life who are, in general, self-governing in regards to their submission. I prefer the ones who don't have to be 'reminded' that they chose to yield... I prefer submissive individuals for whom submission is their inherent 'default' state. To me, these servants are pro-active about their submission... they will examine situations critically, and be able to figure out how to show their nature as a submissive individual as an active principle, rather than requiring me to lead them to their submission.

For me, this isn't about who does what in terms of practical things like bill paying and such things. I tend to delegate according to situations, skills, and need, so my servants, over the years, have managed just about everything, at one point or another, with very little intervention from me once it was delegated -- rather, I am talking about the actual day-in-day-out decision to yield authority... I prefer those who yield authority as a state-of-being, rather than those who either must be -compelled- constantly to yield, or who must be reminded constantly that they -agreed- to yield.

I'm one of the folk who has spent time on both sides of the kneel, and I give a great deal of kudos to the Keepers who were my trainers while I was earning my crop, for patience that I don't think I could manage to exhibit. Quite frankly, I would be unlikely to ever enjoy having a servant like -I- was as a servant... constantly compelled to push the boundaries, in constant need of reminders about what I'd already agreed to, and constantly straining to find out whether the Keepers could actually maintain authority over me. I was a POOR submissive, who struggled to yield through the entirety of my years in service, and who required the constant "carrot" of eventually being -free- of submission and holding the crop myself.. *chuckles*

I hope this answered the question. *LOL* I think my brain is fried from these past couple of weeks!
Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/2/2010 12:13:43 PM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: held in a fist or not - 8/2/2010 1:09:18 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
is submission ALL about handing everything over, even our ability to assimilate right and wrong or do we totally rely on our Dominants to remind us of our submission.
Carol's submission isn't about anything. She is not driven to hand over anything. She follows my lead because that's the natural positions for the two of us. Within limits, she has turned over her ability to assimilate right and wrong. She's done so because that pleases me and fits comfortably with her. When the "within limits" part of that statement is no longer true, then I guess it won't fit comfortably with her anymore.

quote:

is it the physical more than the mental that holds our attention and if the Dominant should fail momentarily to respond to petulance or pushing do we really need to be reminded that we are just as culpable and capable of bringing ourselves back to that place they expect us to be.

Carol and I don't do "places". We love each other. we do our best to do what seems "the most loving" at any given instant. What holds Carol's attention is ME, not my dominant personality.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: held in a fist or not - 8/3/2010 3:55:41 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I can only speak to my own preferences. For me, I prefer having submissive individuals in my life who are, in general, self-governing in regards to their submission. I prefer the ones who don't have to be 'reminded' that they chose to yield... I prefer submissive individuals for whom submission is their inherent 'default' state. To me, these servants are pro-active about their submission... they will examine situations critically, and be able to figure out how to show their nature as a submissive individual as an active principle, rather than requiring me to lead them to their submission.

For me, this isn't about who does what in terms of practical things like bill paying and such things. I tend to delegate according to situations, skills, and need, so my servants, over the years, have managed just about everything, at one point or another, with very little intervention from me once it was delegated -- rather, I am talking about the actual day-in-day-out decision to yield authority... I prefer those who yield authority as a state-of-being, rather than those who either must be -compelled- constantly to yield, or who must be reminded constantly that they -agreed- to yield.

I'm one of the folk who has spent time on both sides of the kneel, and I give a great deal of kudos to the Keepers who were my trainers while I was earning my crop, for patience that I don't think I could manage to exhibit. Quite frankly, I would be unlikely to ever enjoy having a servant like -I- was as a servant... constantly compelled to push the boundaries, in constant need of reminders about what I'd already agreed to, and constantly straining to find out whether the Keepers could actually maintain authority over me. I was a POOR submissive, who struggled to yield through the entirety of my years in service, and who required the constant "carrot" of eventually being -free- of submission and holding the crop myself.. *chuckles*

I hope this answered the question. *LOL* I think my brain is fried from these past couple of weeks!
Calla



ive loved reading this thread - its kinda pottered along and each time ive come on, something else interesting has been written down -

ive picked out the bits in blue because all of the above is part of what i was looking to explore a bit.

the first bit of blue is what im now exploring for myself.  not being goverened by rules or protocol or anything else much, just a requirement from Him, that i fully understand.  its been hard at times and ive been amazed at how conditioned i have become to needing rules, paramters and tacit control   - and not just a little, but alot.  i wondered if it was me, that i was a personality that needed that sort of control to feel that i was in a Ds or Ms relationship but then i stepped back from the labels and looked at myself and realised that for me, no i dont.  so why did i think i did and why have i missed that element and found it difficult to hold the reins myself a bit when im more than capable at any other time.  to govern myself and work nn the one simple and understandable request he has made of me so far. 

i prefer those who yield authority as a state of being - i actually love this statement!   its all in the yielding - and i love to yield and i love to hand over, i absolutely love to trust and feel vulnerable - and i thought, wrongly, that in order to do so i had to hand over all of me as a sort of 'care package' lol - like a child into a parents hands - 'take care of all of me and then i can stop thinking for myself and just let go' - from there i slipped into some sort of oblivion to be honest.  that was then far more sensitive to a bad call because my mental and emotional self was far more at stake.

the last bit of blue was how i used to be a hundred years ago (if feels like anyway) - looking back it was more about me not yielding at all, everything had a price tag and a responsibiilty to it and i was forever testing to see if the guy was up to the responsibility of me, should i yield - though in retrospect i never did - or at least i did, but entirely on my terms.

the switch from yielding to not yielding has been so insidious over the years i cant honestly say what it was that clicked in my head.  and now im enjoying yielding to Him, rather than to rules and protocol. from here i can work out for myself, through reading Him and knowing what i know of Him so far, how to be and how to respond - it feels more realistic, to me.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: held in a fist or not - 8/3/2010 8:55:45 PM   
lenorexx


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: offline
This whole post was wonderful, CaringandReal. Thank you for it. I bet it was a post that many gave "the nod" to. So good it's hard to respond without resorting to "This." and "That." and "Yes!". Don't know that this is much better but I wanted you to know your time and effort were sincerely appreciated by this reader. I nodded vigorously throughout.

Thanks to lally2 for starting the thread. Lots of thoughty stuff.

lenore


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

how much self governing do subs do and how much self governing do Dominants expect from their sub/slave.

...i mean how much do we as subs self govern within the context of our relationships.

are we passive or active in our submission.



You're getting some interesting responses to this--good thread! I like your choice of an ethical issue...


(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 65
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