RE: Why do Doms...???? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/1/2010 11:47:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Pretty much no one gives a crap either way. Why should they?

People are convinced they hold truth and all others simply opinions. It's why the discussions rarely go anywhere beyond posturing.

Why the obvious point is repeated so often is a puzzle. Perhaps they simply need to convince themselves they really don't care.

I don't know. A puzzle.


I asked myself that question... and at first I did not like the answer, and then I accepted the answer...

I don't beat dead horses anymore, and when I accidentally do, I bury that fucker as soon as possible



NuevaVida -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 8:11:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

People are convinced they hold truth and all others simply opinions.


I can only hold truth for myself.  Outside of what I know about myself, I can only hold opinions, but they may not be based on a full awareness of facts because I do not know your truth (or anyone else's). 

Just as anyone else's opinions of me are just opinions and not my truth.  This has nothing to do with posturing; it's simply intimate knowledge of the subject.  Words on a message board can not provide anymore than a snapshot from which to base an opinion.  They certainly do not provide all facts to know a truth.

Therefore, ones opinion of me does not validate nor invalidate what I know to be true of myself.



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 9:10:33 AM)

That's a philosophical difficulty, though.

It makes truth only subjective, a relative phenomenon, absent of absolute value, meaningful only to one's self.

But if that's the case, then truth is malleable and not something to hold, as it isn't "true" (in the sense of unbending).

Consequently, to claim truth under those conditions has everything to do with posturing. It's a lie.

That's what I meant earlier by pointing out the assumptions made the causal argument irrelevant.

See the problem? It sounds pretty, but as with many clichés, it doesn't hold up.

That's not "my" truth--that's the elemental logic of the position. See the difference?




NuevaVida -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 9:20:08 AM)

Either you're missing my point or I'm missing yours.

I know myself.  Therefore I know truths about myself which others can only opine about.  There is no lie here; I am fully equipped with my history, my emotional make up, my thought processes, and the why's behind them.  No one other than me knows me as well as I do.  What I speak of myself is the truth of myself.  If you wish to call it posturing, you may do so.  From where I am coming, there is no need nor intention to posture.  I'm really not even telling you anything other than I know me, and you don't, therefore whatever conclusions you draw of me are simply opinions. 

And opinions based on a snapshot of ones life neither validate nor invalidate.  That was my point.



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 9:26:50 AM)

We can only hope you will use your powers for good.

Perhaps you're the only one who would walk up to the Delphic Oracle and not need to read the archway. I can't know that.

But it still makes truth nothing more than looking in a mirror, making anything one thinks correct, and truth a hollow mockery.

I'll stick to firmer ground, thanks, not only, but especially, when it contradicts my own perceptions.






porcelaine -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 10:07:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Either you're missing my point or I'm missing yours.

I know myself.  Therefore I know truths about myself which others can only opine about.  There is no lie here; I am fully equipped with my history, my emotional make up, my thought processes, and the why's behind them.  No one other than me knows me as well as I do.  What I speak of myself is the truth of myself.  If you wish to call it posturing, you may do so.  From where I am coming, there is no need nor intention to posture.  I'm really not even telling you anything other than I know me, and you don't, therefore whatever conclusions you draw of me are simply opinions. 

And opinions based on a snapshot of ones life neither validate nor invalidate.  That was my point.



This. [;)]

~porcelaine



NuevaVida -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 10:25:59 AM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We can only hope you will use your powers for good.


You can hope that, if you like.  I don't know who is this "we" you are referring to.  Those who know me well don't have to "only hope" because they know.

quote:


Perhaps you're the only one who would walk up to the Delphic Oracle and not need to read the archway. I can't know that.


I do not need to consult with the Oracle for answers.  I do, however, search within, meditate, and do my homework.  Ironically, Socrates' "Know Thyself" is inscribed in the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.  And that's precisely the point I am trying to make here - know thyself and you will know your own inner truths of yourself.  I'm unclear as to why you wish to challenge that, but that's your option, of course.

quote:


But it still makes truth nothing more than looking in a mirror, making anything one thinks correct, and truth a hollow mockery.


You're losing me here.  Looking in a mirror is a bad thing?  I've always viewed it as good and essential, assuming one can do so without blinders or biases.  I don't believe looking within to find your own self truths to be a mockery at all. In fact, I wish more people would do so.  Perhaps you think I am meaning something other than self truth (by self truth I mean knowing myself well enough to know what I need and why, what I think & feel and why, and knowing how I am personally affected by things and why).  I am not speaking truth for anything other than the way I tick.

quote:


I'll stick to firmer ground, thanks, not only, but especially, when it contradicts my own perceptions.
 

My ground is quite firm, actually.  However, I do find when my perceptions are challenged or contradicted, I explore within to learn why.  It is because my feet are on solid ground that I can do this.







Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 11:02:29 AM)

We are only going in circles here. There's a fundamental assumption you and porcelaine are convinced is self-evident. There's a problem with assuming one's own reflection is absolute truth (why wouldn't everyone else's be too?), as it makes all truth mere opinion, and all discussion of it pointless, a mere matter of taste and whimsy.

That's a shaky world. I'm glad I don't live there. You disagree, and I expected nothing else. So there we have it. All else is repetition.



NuevaVida -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 11:26:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We are only going in circles here. There's a fundamental assumption you and porcelaine are convinced is self-evident. There's a problem with assuming one's own reflection is absolute truth (why wouldn't everyone else's be too?), as it makes all truth mere opinion, and all discussion of it pointless, a mere matter of taste and whimsy.


I agree about the circles.  But you are making false assumptions - that I assume absolute truth in my self reflection.  Self reflection means looking past the image and to the naked truth of what's beneath - whether or not I like what I see.  And yes, what others see (like it or not) is the truth about them, too, if they're willing to see it.  I never said otherwise.  You are basing your opinion on incorrect assumptions.  But no matter - you are correct, this conversation is not going anywhere productive, so it will end after this post.

quote:


That's a shaky world. I'm glad I don't live there. You disagree, and I expected nothing else. So there we have it. All else is repetition.


It is not my style to communicate subtle insults when one does not agree with me, as you have done so above, so I will merely wish you a good day and close out this conversation.



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 12:24:52 PM)

If you think you were insulted, subtly or otherwise, then your inner world is indeed at odds with reality.

To disagree is not to disparage. Speaks to the connection with ego raised at the start of this carousel.




porcelaine -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 4:41:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We are only going in circles here. There's a fundamental assumption you and porcelaine are convinced is self-evident. There's a problem with assuming one's own reflection is absolute truth (why wouldn't everyone else's be too?), as it makes all truth mere opinion, and all discussion of it pointless, a mere matter of taste and whimsy.

That's a shaky world. I'm glad I don't live there. You disagree, and I expected nothing else. So there we have it. All else is repetition.


And it's really great that you don't live there and your supposed answer is truth as well. After all, that's what makes it right for you and that's no different from the approach we've taken. Whether you agree, disagree, believe it's posturing, or whatever descriptor you apply is not of consequence. The only reality we can speak of with any authority is the one we're living individually.

~porcelaine



texangael -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 4:45:26 PM)

quote:

The only reality we can speak of with any authority is the one we're living individually.
One problem: that is not reality.



NuevaVida -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:02:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

quote:

The only reality we can speak of with any authority is the one we're living individually.
One problem: that is not reality.


LOL ok I'm sorry but that just made me laugh.  So, one person implying I'm on shaky ground says if I see that as an insult I'm "at odds with reality" and now I'm reading that apparently the life I am currently living is not reality.

So, looking inward at ones own life and being prepared to face ones truth is shaky and unrealistic.  Allllrighty then.  [:D]





porcelaine -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:14:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

quote:

The only reality we can speak of with any authority is the one we're living individually.
One problem: that is not reality.


So riddle me this. If personal knowing is not a possibility because it isn't real. How on earth do you self described dominants know what's best for someone else? Or is the answer reality when it suits your purposes or preconceived notions? [:D]

~porcelaine



Musicmystery -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:22:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We are only going in circles here. There's a fundamental assumption you and porcelaine are convinced is self-evident. There's a problem with assuming one's own reflection is absolute truth (why wouldn't everyone else's be too?), as it makes all truth mere opinion, and all discussion of it pointless, a mere matter of taste and whimsy.

That's a shaky world. I'm glad I don't live there. You disagree, and I expected nothing else. So there we have it. All else is repetition.


And it's really great that you don't live there and your supposed answer is truth as well. After all, that's what makes it right for you and that's no different from the approach we've taken. Whether you agree, disagree, believe it's posturing, or whatever descriptor you apply is not of consequence. The only reality we can speak of with any authority is the one we're living individually.

~porcelaine


Now you're putting words into my mouth based on the assumptions behind yours. I said no such thing.

I said the assumptions on which such a view is based would make "truth" nothing but subjective, and if that were true, "truth" would be meaningless, mere personal whimsy.

quote:

Or is the answer reality when it suits your purposes or preconceived notions?

No. That's the consequence of your position.

Hence, the philosophical difficulty with it.

Instead of addressing that, you keep repeating the original position. Hence the circles.

I think this is well outlined all the way around. Go in peace.




texangael -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:25:05 PM)

quote:

So riddle me this. If personal knowing is not a possibility because it isn't real. How on earth do you self described dominants know what's best for someone else? Or is the answer reality when it suits your purposes or preconceived notions?
You are conflating concepts.

"Personal knowing" is best apprehended as an evolution of perception to coincide with "reality".  What we live individually is not "reality", but that evolving perception.

Reality is.  Perception may be.

As regards dominants knowing what is best for others, this dominant of a surety knows no such thing.  I make decisions on what I perceive to be best for everyone, and I own the consequences of those decisions just as much as I own the women for whom I decide.  Knowledge, while occasionally beneficial, is not a prerequisite to the process.



porcelaine -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:27:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now you're putting words into my mouth based on the assumptions behind yours. I said no such thing.

I said the assumptions on which such a view is based make "truth" nothing but subjective.


No more subjective than the ones you use when dealing with a submissive. Unless you're utilizing the Oracle or other services to 'divine' the truth since it's impossible for anyone to glean it through their own devices.

quote:

Or is the answer reality when it suits your purposes or preconceived notions?


Not at all. I thank my lucky stars I'm driving the ship instead. I know the route.

~porcelaine




texangael -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:31:28 PM)

quote:

So, looking inward at ones own life and being prepared to face ones truth is shaky and unrealistic.
Quite so.

For who can say with certainty that what he sees looking inward is truth and not a lie?

Against what metric can what is seen be gauged to know that it is "reality"?

Asserting personal truth as reality is, indeed, very shaky ground--and decidedly unrealistic.




porcelaine -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:31:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

As regards dominants knowing what is best for others, this dominant of a surety knows no such thing.  I make decisions on what I perceive to be best for everyone, and I own the consequences of those decisions just as much as I own the women for whom I decide.  Knowledge, while occasionally beneficial, is not a prerequisite to the process.


Well here's the skinny. I know what's best for porcelaine. Now you may take exception to that verbiage but since you're unable to substantiate that the knowledge is lacking nor can you validate your perspective in regard to my personal self we just won't see eye to eye on this.

~porcelaine



texangael -> RE: Why do Doms...???? (8/2/2010 5:33:53 PM)

quote:

Well here's the skinny. I know what's best for porcelaine.
So you say.



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