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RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 7/30/2010 9:45:19 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: E3
and the cistern issue, doesnt even change that people are elsewhere, still under threat of arbitrarily being denied the right to farm their own land, even for self use.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If you had watched the video in the link you would know that none of the positions you take are valid. The video is quite clear that the state considers rainwater to belong to the state and the collection of rainwater by an individual is stealing from the state.
This begs the question: If you are a farmer and it rains on your crop how much do you owe the state?

Nah, you guys are both reading something into this that's just not supported. The video from the news station was pretty sloppy and unprofessional "reporting," so I can see how you could reach that conclusion, but in actuality it's quite a leap from what the law really is. This isn't a step toward the state deciding who can and can not use the rainwater that falls onto their farm to irrigate their crops.

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Panda, panda, burning bright
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(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 21

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 11:03:05 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: E3
and the cistern issue, doesnt even change that people are elsewhere, still under threat of arbitrarily being denied the right to farm their own land, even for self use.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If you had watched the video in the link you would know that none of the positions you take are valid. The video is quite clear that the state considers rainwater to belong to the state and the collection of rainwater by an individual is stealing from the state.
This begs the question: If you are a farmer and it rains on your crop how much do you owe the state?

Nah, you guys are both reading something into this that's just not supported. The video from the news station was pretty sloppy and unprofessional "reporting," so I can see how you could reach that conclusion, but in actuality it's quite a leap from what the law really is. This isn't a step toward the state deciding who can and can not use the rainwater that falls onto their farm to irrigate their crops.

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.
We had a similar case here in san bernardino county california with the mojave water agency which is a quasi governmental body. They claim jurisdiction of all water in the county. They have been busilly putting meters on peoples wells...when a neighbor of mine offered to shoot one of them they went and got the sheriff. The sheriff explained the laws of trespass to the stooge. The mwa subsequently sent my neighbor a bill for the water that they claimed was theirs. He sent them a registered letter telling them that they had 30 days to remove their water from his land and that after 30 days he was going to charge them storage.
He is an old retired phoque who can both read and write so he has educated himself about the law and has cleaned their clock in both state and federal court. He is still pumping enough water to irrigate 60 acres of alfalfa and there is still no meter on his well.
The moral of this story is just because some county stooge says something does not make it true

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 22

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 11:30:24 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.

No he doesn't. I just watched that video again twice, and neither public official says one single, solitary word about the water belonging to the state or the county. Not a word. What video are you watching?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
We had a similar case here in san bernardino county california with the mojave water agency which is a quasi governmental body. They claim jurisdiction of all water in the county. They have been busilly putting meters on peoples wells...when a neighbor of mine offered to shoot one of them they went and got the sheriff. The sheriff explained the laws of trespass to the stooge. The mwa subsequently sent my neighbor a bill for the water that they claimed was theirs. He sent them a registered letter telling them that they had 30 days to remove their water from his land and that after 30 days he was going to charge them storage.
He is an old retired phoque who can both read and write so he has educated himself about the law and has cleaned their clock in both state and federal court. He is still pumping enough water to irrigate 60 acres of alfalfa and there is still no meter on his well.
The moral of this story is just because some county stooge says something does not make it true

And that may very well be, but it doesn't have anything to do with the case we're discussing here - the story in the OP.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 8/1/2010 11:31:54 AM >

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Panda, panda, burning bright
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Post #: 23

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 12:47:03 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.

No he doesn't. I just watched that video again twice, and neither public official says one single, solitary word about the water belonging to the state or the county. Not a word. What video are you watching?

I am watching the video where the second stooge says that the car wash would be using a "salt lake city water right" and diverting it.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 24

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 3:57:04 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.

No he doesn't. I just watched that video again twice, and neither public official says one single, solitary word about the water belonging to the state or the county. Not a word. What video are you watching?

I am watching the video where the second stooge says that the car wash would be using a "salt lake city water right" and diverting it.

Maybe you should learn what a water right is in this case.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 25

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 3:59:47 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

They can have my water when they pry my cold dead dick from my hands.

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Post #: 26

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 6:36:15 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.

No he doesn't. I just watched that video again twice, and neither public official says one single, solitary word about the water belonging to the state or the county. Not a word. What video are you watching?

I am watching the video where the second stooge says that the car wash would be using a "salt lake city water right" and diverting it.

Maybe you should learn what a water right is in this case.

A water right is that water which one has a right to. In this case slc says the rainwater is their water right.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 27

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 6:47:38 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

Considering the states mentioned, the parallel would be the charge I recieve from the city on my sewage bill for the water that comes off my roof and property when it rains. Yep. I have to pay for that.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 28

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 9:18:36 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.

No he doesn't. I just watched that video again twice, and neither public official says one single, solitary word about the water belonging to the state or the county. Not a word. What video are you watching?

I am watching the video where the second stooge says that the car wash would be using a "salt lake city water right" and diverting it.

Maybe you should learn what a water right is in this case.

A water right is that water which one has a right to. In this case slc says the rainwater is their water right.

You need to do more research.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 29

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/1/2010 9:20:45 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~Fast Reply~

Considering the states mentioned, the parallel would be the charge I recieve from the city on my sewage bill for the water that comes off my roof and property when it rains. Yep. I have to pay for that.

Sounds like you guys have a storm sewer system separate from the poo sewer (which is a good way to go).

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 30

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/2/2010 6:32:30 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I wish it would rain and storm like crazy here. I also am ready for indian summer.

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 31

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/2/2010 6:37:27 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

100% humidity here today, had about 6 inches of rain last night.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 32

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/2/2010 6:48:51 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

keep the humidity.

send the rain over.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 33

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/2/2010 9:17:05 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~Fast Reply~

Considering the states mentioned, the parallel would be the charge I recieve from the city on my sewage bill for the water that comes off my roof and property when it rains. Yep. I have to pay for that.

Sounds like you guys have a storm sewer system separate from the poo sewer (which is a good way to go).

Yep. And it is a flat charge a month. Considering what the streets and yards and such would be like without this, I do not really have a problem with it.

The first time I heard of this, I thought it was strange. But once you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to thornhappy)

Post #: 34

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/2/2010 10:01:40 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

FR

Y'all stay off Hunky's ass on this one. For one I happen to know for a fact that there are so many laws on the books that they could put just about everyone in jail tomorrow. The laws are selectively enforced, giving the government an upper hand when it comes to manipulating society for their own benefit. Just ask findlaw.com just how much disk space it requires to maintain their database.

We have laws against selling raw milk. Why, because the rain helped produce it ? It is a dangerous drug. Why then ?

The assholes have no business telling you what to do with the rain that falls on what is supposedly your property, however we can't keep them totally out of the issue for a couple of reasons. This is where they get their foot in the door so to speak. Because someone has to make some rules for example, about if you own property with a stream on it. In the old days if you had an enemy with a ranch/farm, you could buy property upstream and dam the stream up, which would pretty much shut them down. ALL of the water in that stream was rain at one time. You certainly didn't fill it.

A buddy of mine just showed me his collection system, just the gutters on his garage. The tank is full and though he dopesn't drink the water, he uses it. So if the government would seem to contend that we must lwet the gutters dump into the public sewer system, why do they charge for it rather than pay for it ? In this town water and sewer show up separately on the bill and sewer is about 3X the water usage. They also have an option if you have a big yard, you can get a second meter which does not count in for the calculation of the (larger) sewer portion of the bill.

So if getting rid of this water is such a problem for society, what the hell can be wrong with people just using it ? Well this is the 21st century as someone mentioned so there is only one answer. Money.

You have to understand true greed. It is an insatiable adiction and really, when you were five and the tooth fairy came and left you a quarter under your pillow, they want a dime. I am no kidding and people had better wake up soon and find out how to get these assholes out of office. Otherwise as we pick up the pieces of the total mess they created, they will tax our hands.

Beatles - Taxman.

Hunky, if there ever was a song for you, that is it. In fact everyone should be well familiar with the lyrics, because that is the way it is.

I have no problem with some regulation concerning what people can do with natural rivers and streams. Remember I live in a city that had a river that burned. Y'all forgot about that dintya, but not me. That was industry that caused that, not Women washing their hair, unless there are some really unknown chemicals in shampoo :-)

This has to stop. There has to be some regulation, but there must be limits. That is what it is all about. Limited government power. Industry got away with polluting the Cuyahoga river to the point where it actually did cacth fire. This was not the actions of a private Citizen, they were operating in commerce.

Enough for now, I have to start a thread because if I go on long it will be a hijack.

T

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 35

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/2/2010 11:38:37 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
We have laws against selling raw milk. Why, because the rain helped produce it ? It is a dangerous drug. Why then ?

Something to do with the fact that it hasn't been pasteurised, I'd imagine. The FDA is a bad joke in most cases, but I'd hope that even in your country there's legislation to prevent milk that's been squirted out of cows with tb being sold.

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(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 36

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/3/2010 6:26:34 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

In the interview with the county stooge the stooge makes it clear who he believes the water belongs to.

No he doesn't. I just watched that video again twice, and neither public official says one single, solitary word about the water belonging to the state or the county. Not a word. What video are you watching?

I am watching the video where the second stooge says that the car wash would be using a "salt lake city water right" and diverting it.

Maybe you should learn what a water right is in this case.

A water right is that water which one has a right to. In this case slc says the rainwater is their water right.

You need to do more research.

If you have a point why don't you make it instead of posting puerile snarks. If you think "water right" means something other than the right to some quantity of water by an individual or entity, post it with validation.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 37

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/3/2010 9:52:48 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If you have a point why don't you make it instead of posting puerile snarks. If you think "water right" means something other than the right to some quantity of water by an individual or entity, post it with validation.

Out west water rights is not tied to property but instead to historic usage. In this case SLC has rights to rainfall runoff in its boundaries up to some set amount but downstream entities have rights to the rest. So when the car wash diverted large quantities out of that flow they opened SLC up to all sorts of legal trouble. SLC is using up part of their yearly allocation for the car wash's cistern now.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 38

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/3/2010 11:05:53 AM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If you have a point why don't you make it instead of posting puerile snarks. If you think "water right" means something other than the right to some quantity of water by an individual or entity, post it with validation.

Out west water rights is not tied to property but instead to historic usage.

This is not true.
The title to my land (which is patented) explicitly defines the water under the surface as mine and is validated by the signature of the president of the u.s.

In this case SLC has rights to rainfall runoff in its boundaries up to some set amount but downstream entities have rights to the rest.

Aside from the great salt lake what is down stream from slc which would be entitled to water.

So when the car wash diverted large quantities out of that flow they opened SLC up to all sorts of legal trouble.

Large quantities????? we are talking about the rain water catch of the top of a building. In this case 2500 gallons. Water is normally calculated in acre feet(that is the amount of water in one acre,43,560 square feet one foot deep or about 325,000 gallons). The city of slc is about 110 sq. miles with a rainfall of about 15 inches a year, so not counting the snow fall roughly 24 trillion gallons.

SLC is using up part of their yearly allocation for the car wash's cistern now.
Perhaps you might want to calculate the exact percentage for us.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 39

RE: Government Outlaws Rainwater Collection - 8/3/2010 11:11:01 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
If you have a point why don't you make it instead of posting puerile snarks. If you think "water right" means something other than the right to some quantity of water by an individual or entity, post it with validation.

Out west water rights is not tied to property but instead to historic usage.

This is not true.
The title to my land (which is patented) explicitly defines the water under the surface as mine and is validated by the signature of the president of the u.s.

In this case SLC has rights to rainfall runoff in its boundaries up to some set amount but downstream entities have rights to the rest.

Aside from the great salt lake what is down stream from slc which would be entitled to water.

So when the car wash diverted large quantities out of that flow they opened SLC up to all sorts of legal trouble.

Large quantities????? we are talking about the rain water catch of the top of a building. In this case 2500 gallons. Water is normally calculated in acre feet(that is the amount of water in one acre,43,560 square feet one foot deep or about 325,000 gallons). The city of slc is about 110 sq. miles with a rainfall of about 15 inches a year, so not counting the snow fall roughly 24 trillion gallons.

SLC is using up part of their yearly allocation for the car wash's cistern now.
Perhaps you might want to calculate the exact percentage for us.

Actually it is true, it's called prior appropriation and is based on Wyoming v Colorado and various laws passed to codify it.

Just because the cistern holds 2500 gallons doesn't mean that's all that will be diverted. and it is irrelevant, the people downstream own those 2500 gallons.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 40

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