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Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:22:25 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		As a resident of beautiful Northern Virginia, I tend to watch news worthy issues in my area.
I have been listening to the news discussing Virginia challenging some of the immigration laws for a week or so.

Well, Virginia is front and center in the news right now.
This one could become even more interesting than the situation in Arizona.

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has issued a ruling on a Virginia state law that allows police officers to check the immigration status of individuals stopped or arrested.
Things are going to start getting real interesting in the state that is for lovers, real soon.

I guess I better make sure I always have some form of ID on me.
Thoughts on what is going down in old Virginny?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/03/politics/washingtonpost/main6738533.shtml

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/4/2010 12:30:51 PM >

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As always, To EACH their Own.
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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:29:52 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		How will they do this?

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:34:16 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Sidenote-

if something must be devissive-  I prefer this to the gay marriage hoopla.


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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:36:45 PM   
Marini


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

How will they do this?


How will they do this?
Very easily!

Police Officers in the state of VA, now have the right to check immigration status when they stop or arrest anyone.

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/4/2010 12:41:01 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Jeffff)
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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:38:55 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		-- it does seem tho- that they always were able to do this.   One would think.

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:41:18 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

-- it does seem tho- that they always were able to do this.   One would think.


Actually Pahunk is right, it is within the realm of any law enforcement officer's jurisdiction to take whatever steps he deems necessary and prudent to ascertain the citizenship and legal status of anyone he stops in the commission of a criminal act, including a traffic stop.

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 12:58:06 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

How will they do this?


How will they do this?
Very easily!

Police Officers in the state of VA, now have the right to check immigration status when they stop or arrest anyone.


HOW?... do they call it in?, is a drivers license good enough?

Are they going to check a pale white guy like me too?

HOW?

What if I am jay walking and I left my wallet at home?

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 8/4/2010 12:59:31 PM >

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:03:45 PM   
Marini


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Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

How will they do this?


How will they do this?
Very easily!

Police Officers in the state of VA, now have the right to check immigration status when they stop or arrest anyone.


HOW?... do they call it in?, is a drivers license good enough?

Are they going to check a pale white guy like me too?

HOW?

What if I am jay walking and I left my wallet at home?


Since I live in a largely Hispanic little corner of Northern VA, do like this Black lady is going to do.
Carry an ID card on you all the time.
I just went outside to take the garbage can off the curb, and damn it to hell, I didn't have an ID on me!
Egads!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Jeffff)
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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:08:25 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		LOL... that's my point. I don't mind police checking things like that. I do mind having to have my papers on me at all times.

Yeah, it is easier for a white guy I know. It is even easier for a black lady...:)

It might not be so easy for a brown guy with an accent.

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:13:59 PM   
Marini


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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

LOL... that's my point. I don't mind police checking things like that. I do mind having to have my papers on me at all times.

Yeah, it is easier for a white guy I know. It is even easier for a black lady...:)

It might not be so easy for a brown guy with an accent.


Jefff, that could be the reason this is national news right now.


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:20:35 PM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

How will they do this?


How will they do this?
Very easily!

Police Officers in the state of VA, now have the right to check immigration status when they stop or arrest anyone.


HOW?... do they call it in?, is a drivers license good enough?

Are they going to check a pale white guy like me too?

HOW?

What if I am jay walking and I left my wallet at home?


The simple answer to all of the profiling nonsense is to check citizenship on everyone. Since so many pale white guys are rushing up from south of the border, it is obvious we need to do so.

So haul your ass in if you have no id until citizenship is established.

I'm a database guy so I'm fairly sure a centralized database could be created that would house enough information to be accurate most of the time. Hell, there's probably such a beast already in service. The issue would be how fast it could be done.

Fuck it. Check everyone. They're already running a check on everyone anyway.


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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:24:45 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't see the problem with carrying your ID on you at all times. A person should have their DL and other identifying information on them when driving anyways. If a person uses plastic to pay for anything, they should have their ID on them anyways. If you're not doing anything illegal on your front yard, then a cop has no reason to stop you.

I just don't understand the problem with these laws.

boi


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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:26:16 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I suggest that we all have rfid chips inserted in our arms, bar codes tattooed onto our necks and biometric id cards that have to be carried at all times, regardless if you are dressed or not.

All of this established at birth. It would be no problem to inject the baby with the rfid chip, do the tattooing in the delivery room and establish a biometric id card before the baby can leave the hospital.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:26:22 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, the first time that happens and it makes it's way up to the USSC because a US citizen was seized for not having an ID on them when not violating any crimes, the law will have some issues, but that's not what the law does. According to the story, this law allows law enforcement to question immigration status of people that are ALREADY stopped or being arrested. It seems to basically just allow local law enforcement more discretion to question federal law violations as interpreted by the quoted sources.

In his opinion, Cuccinelli also wrote that local law enforcement officers can arrest those they suspect of committing criminal violations of immigration laws -- crossing the border -- but not those they think have violated civil immigration statutes -- overstaying visas. But he says that checking immigration status is different than arresting for a violation, and that law enforcement can inquire.

"Virginia law enforcement officers have the authority to make the same inquiries as those contemplated by the new Arizona law. So long as the officers have the requisite level of suspicion to believe that a violation of the law has occurred, the officers may detain and briefly question a person they suspect has committed a federal crime," he writes.


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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:26:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		We do have to be careful- with the "your papers please".

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:30:15 PM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline 		The presupposition here is that you are violating some law given that it reads "when they stop or arrest".

Seems like a no brainer to me. Check them all. Detain those who cannot be verified until verification is determined.

Truth is though, having the law on the books is probably enough to ease off much of what's considered the problem. Witness the exodus from Arizona.


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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:35:47 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

The presupposition here is that you are violating some law given that it reads "when they stop or arrest".

Seems like a no brainer to me. Check them all. Detain those who cannot be verified until verification is determined.

Truth is though, having the law on the books is probably enough to ease off much of what's considered the problem. Witness the exodus from Arizona.



What get's me, is the fact that such a big deal is being made of this, nationally.
To actually be checking legal status, apparently must be something new, or not routinely done.

Also, Laurell, they can ask for ID if they stop or detain you, they don't have to be in the process of arresting you.
{loitering, traffic stops, etc.}

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/4/2010 1:36:46 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:37:13 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

The presupposition here is that you are violating some law given that it reads "when they stop or arrest".

Seems like a no brainer to me. Check them all. Detain those who cannot be verified until verification is determined.

Truth is though, having the law on the books is probably enough to ease off much of what's considered the problem. Witness the exodus from Arizona.



Right. It's not much different than the way things are now, except that here at least local law enforcement doesn't really have much authority to deal with illegal status. They ignore it because getting the feds to do anything is a hassle and a half.

IF the law is interpretred or implemented as allowing law enforcement to stop US citizens that are not violating any laws, then it would be unconstitutional. I do not see that as being the focus of the law at all. The USSC has already held that we are NOT required to present ID to law enforcement when we are NOT violating the law or subject to arrest. This law cannot change that premise. Therefore, extending a stop or seizure where an arrest is not imminent based on this law would be equally unconsitutional.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:43:56 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


What get's me, is the fact that such a big deal is being made of this, nationally.
To actually be checking legal status, apparently must be something new, or not routinely done.

Also, Laurell, they can ask for ID if they stop or detain you, they don't have to be in the process of arresting you.
{loitering, traffic stops, etc.}


Are you saying that you can be asked to show ID while just walking down the street?

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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 8/4/2010 1:44:52 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

The presupposition here is that you are violating some law given that it reads "when they stop or arrest".

Seems like a no brainer to me. Check them all. Detain those who cannot be verified until verification is determined.

Truth is though, having the law on the books is probably enough to ease off much of what's considered the problem. Witness the exodus from Arizona.



What get's me, is the fact that such a big deal is being made of this, nationally.
To actually be checking legal status, apparently must be something new, or not routinely done.

Also, Laurell, they can ask for ID if they stop or detain you, they don't have to be in the process of arresting you.
{loitering, traffic stops, etc.}


*laughs*

Yes that' would be why I said STOP OR ARREST. The point you are missing is that stop without an arrest is very limited for US citizens.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 20
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