joether
Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
In most states everyone is required to present ID to law enforcement personnel when they ask for it, regardless of race. Period.
Incorrect, under the 4th Amendment. A police or law enforcement offical (i.e. ICE, FBI, NSA, etc), can ask for ID, if they believe you 'are about to', 'are in the process of', or 'have', commited a crime under their jurisdiction. The FBI guy couldn't areest you for jay walking, but could, refer the matter to the local police. If a police officer stops you on the road, and demands your license, you are equally entitled to demand, the reason for the stop. They have to then, define the exact reason(s) for impeding your travel to your destination. Generally, its either due to some traffic issue you may not be aware of, or, you broke the law.
quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
What I'm watching is the whole migration out of Arizona due to their law. All of these states that are so dead set against the AZ law just might be singing a different tune when their states are bankrupted by the illegals who moved out of Arizona. Colorado and Pennsylvania seem to be the ones mentioned by illegals leaving AZ the most. They come to this country, and somehow manage to get all the benefits and money that US citizens can't.
Really, they get all the benefits and money US citizens dont, eh? So, I guess if some illegal guy walks in to a convience store, puts down a few packs of cigaretts, bread, milk, and asks for $15 on his heap of a truck outside. Do you honestly think, the guy will say "oh yeah, dude, can you give me the illegal immigrant discount, so I dont pay your taxes?" Do you REALLY, think that happens? In study after study (like the one from New Mexico 2007), it has pointed out, that illegal immigrants give more money to the US system then they take out. They don't get social security....but they have to pay for it. If they get money 'under the table' through the employer, then the Fed, can fine the employer (like it has been doing for the last year).
Heck, the IRS has a system in place, to voluntarily pay federal taxes. Surprisingly, a large percentage of the supposive illegal immigrant population pays the taxes. How do you think, people know that 10-15 million illegal immigrants are in the USA right now? Where do you think they got that figure from? A better question to ask yourself: Why does an illegal immigrant, pay, VOLUNTARILY, the federal tax? That is a pretty fair question to any conservatives on here.
quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
what is taxing the police department is the increase of crime that comes with illegals moving in, and the extra tools and things that the departments have to purchase in order to handle these people.
Is crime increased by an illegal immigrant, escaping the drug cartels of Mexico, to raise his family in peace? Do a hard day's labor, teach his kids a better work ethic, and not to get in to drugs? And pays taxes (voluntarily) to the Fed, and those everyone else pays for? Does that sound like someone you want out of the country? Or be a US Citizen?
Police departments are not being taxed (labor, not financial) due to illegal immigrants. They are taxed, when people's fears and bigotry rise, during a time of hardship and recession, to place all the world's problems on a scape goat. Hopefully, I dont have to force someone to yell 'Goodwin's Law', for another group that did so in history?
quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
If you come to my country, learn the language!
Incorrect! They dont have to learn the language (i.e., English). Its called the 1st Amendment's 'freedom of speech'. Yes, illigal immigrants get this right too. Sorry, but the US Consititution was designed to cover ALL PERSONS, found under the goverment's control, and treat them EQUALLY under the law. Now, I will say, that learning English, would help the person in many ways in the USA: getting a better paying job, dealing with money or community issues, voting, and other activities. But, it is not against the law, for them to speak their native language. And yes, there are many companies, and individuals, who speak different languages that can be hired to serve the needs of a police department. Many such police deptments in towns, might pool their money to hire one company to be on call, 24/7 for translations.
quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
And since when do I have to learn another language in order to live in this country?
Under the 1st Amendment, you dont have to learn another language. But, learning another language does bring opporunity to learn about things from another perspective. Maybe see people, culture, and history in another way. Builds wisdom and knowledge. But, you dont have to do any of that, if you dont want to.
quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
And the company line about Hispanics being afraid to help the police out is total BS...they won't approach the police now!
Yes, re-read your whole arguement about illegal immigrants. You state some of the reasona, WHY, they would not want to help police. Would you help law enforcement, if they were tempted to stripe you of all your worldly posessions, family, friends, and throw you out? Of course not! The law in AZ, basically put the hispanic community at odds with the police. Illegal immigrants will now, be more likely, not, help the police, deal with drug dealers that moved in down the street. Since the person would be afraid, they too, would be deported.
quote:
ORIGINAL: soul2share
Personally, I'd like to see our military brought home, and put on the border every 50 feet with orders to shoot to kill......that'll dry up the exodus real fast!
Yeah, there are only a 'few' problems with that.
A) Shooting of citizens of another country, would be a HUGE international issue. If Jordans were shooting Americans, in the country of Jorden, would you want the US Military to go in, and get our citizens out? Including, firing on the Jordan military if it came to that? Commerce would grind to a halt, on the USA/Mexico border, while things 'cooled off' over a few months. Companies would start laying off US Citizens on our side of the border, because, they cant afford to keep them on the pay role. Those people, get added to our current unemployment rate (which isnt that great). Think thats a good idea still?
B) Posse Comitatus Act
Now, the National Guard can be used, without violating 'B', but, those guardsmen are strictly in a supporting role. They carry arms, but have no law enforcement powers at either the state or federal level. They can defend themselves, if fired upon, but are not allowed to give chase, if the attackers flee due to superior forces/arms. They are on the border right now, per President Obama's order.
C) we create new expenses for the country: body removal, and firearm operation/replenishment. Do either of those two, sound like a good use of taxpayer money?
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RE: Virginia is cracking down on illegal immigrants - 
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