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0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 3:40:43 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I personally would add "it's not a tax", but William A Jacobson (my second fave law prof, behind J Turley) summarizes them thusly:

Promise #1: If you are satisfied with your existing health care arrangement, you can keep it.
Promise #2: Reform will lower America’s health care spending.
Promise #3: Reform will lower Americans’ health care premiums.
Promise #4: Obamacare will not lead to a doctor shortage, or escalate the primary-care physician shortfall.
Promise #5: There will be no government rationing of medical care.
Promise #6: “The firm pledge” – Ninety-five percent of Americans will not see any form of tax increase because of Obamacare (or anything else).
Promise #7: Health care reform won’t add “a single dime” to the deficit—and will actually cut it.
Promise #8: Health care reform will help businesses—employers and employees, alike.
Promise #9: Obamacare will not allow for funding of abortions with taxpayer money.
Promise #10: Obamacare will not only satisfy each of the promises above, but satisfy all of them at the same time with virtually no downsides.

The article detailing and exposing the lies can be found here. of the co-authors, I am more familiar with Mary Katherine Ham, and consider her to be excellent- insightful and articulate.

I am becoming more and more hopeful that this abomination is killable.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 8/5/2010 3:41:15 PM >
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 3:50:35 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hotair.com about sums this up.

(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 3:55:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

As a result of the new law, the Associated Press advises Americans to “beat the crowd and find a doctor” because the “landmark health care overhaul…promises extra strain” on the already-dwindling ranks of primary care physicians. Inauspiciously, the Association of American Medical Colleges’ Center for Workforce Studies estimates a shortage of 160,000 doctors within 15 years. America’s medical schools “can’t keep up,” the Wall Street Journal reports. “A nurse may soon be your doctor” because of the shortage, explains USA Today.


Your source.

And what is wrong with a Nurse Practioner? I would rather see them than a Physician. They are highly trained to diagnose and treat.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:06:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

quote:

As a result of the new law, the Associated Press advises Americans to “beat the crowd and find a doctor” because the “landmark health care overhaul…promises extra strain” on the already-dwindling ranks of primary care physicians. Inauspiciously, the Association of American Medical Colleges’ Center for Workforce Studies estimates a shortage of 160,000 doctors within 15 years. America’s medical schools “can’t keep up,” the Wall Street Journal reports. “A nurse may soon be your doctor” because of the shortage, explains USA Today.


Your source.

And what is wrong with a Nurse Practioner? I would rather see them than a Physician. They are highly trained to diagnose and treat.


Are they as highly trained as a doctor? How much of a fee reduction is a fair trade off for when the Nurse misses something the doctor wouldnt?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:12:16 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		My source? Kneejerk much? How about: Prof Billy Jacobson and the linked article.
On the NP thing. Keep the change; I'd rather see a doctor. Btw, my wife is a cert. NP who now teaches nursing. She sees doctors too. Just sayin....
Why would you rather see an NP? Do you also prefer law clerks?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:13:45 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, 'hotair.com' about sums it all up.

No point explaining how truckinslave is wrong, on every issue. I doubt he has the capacity to understand it. Since any sane individual could understand the health care bill that was passed a few months ago. Guess what, truckinslave....

....I like my doctor, and I STILL, have him! I even like his too nurses! =)

Maybe you should learn how to tell the difference between 'actual journalism' and 'bias blogging'.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:16:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ever been to a NP? Do you even know what they are?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:19:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

My source? Kneejerk much? How about: Prof Billy Jacobson and the linked article.
On the NP thing. Keep the change; I'd rather see a doctor. Btw, my wife is a cert. NP who now teaches nursing. She sees doctors too. Just sayin....
Why would you rather see an NP? Do you also prefer law clerks?



Been to a Drs office lately? Its rush rush. No time to diagnose properly. Thinking that a nurse will miss something simply because she is a nurse... lol... Like Drs dont misdiagnose all the time. Hell, most dont have the time to diagnose properly.

And, please, dont put an NP on the same level as a law clerk.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:20:33 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Yes youre source, the one that only shows a 14 second clip of Senator Durbin, thereby distorting what he says. Hardly impartial is it ?


(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:28:36 PM   
THELADY


Posts: 116
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		ok, all who did not know these facts BEFORE the vote to approve the H.C. bill, raise ur hand....

(in reply to truckinslave)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:33:37 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ever been to a NP? Do you even know what they are?


Yes I do. Mine is on a state-wide level, and not open for profit. The process can be some what weird and unusual, but in the end, it does explain itself. And if I get really annoyed, I can go have a chat with my representative or senator. Can you talk to the CEO of your health insurance.....that easily? And if he did, would he give a bull-droppings about you, after you left? If the senator/respresentative doesnt, I vote for the other guy running. In fact, thanks to technology, I find others, who feel the same way, and we give the person an two options: 1) do as we ask 2) find the unemployment line.

I'm fortunate, in that my representative, actually is a good person. Not a good public speaker, but damn good, making the system operate for those in her area.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:41:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Umm... huh? I was referring to Nurse Practioners.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 4:43:52 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

ok, all who did not know these facts BEFORE the vote to approve the H.C. bill, raise ur hand....


How about, instead of complaining about the issue, you READ THE BILL. Every section, every line, every word, every character! You'd be surprised, just how many Americans, didnt bother to read the bill. Instead, they allowed others to spoon feed them, an agenda. Whether that agenda was based on facts or fiction, depends on the one telling the information.

If your a US Citizen, it is YOU JOB, to know what YOUR Senators and Representatives are doing! Its YOUR responsibility, to know what the bill contains and what it doesnt contain. Its YOU fault, if you fail to understand, because your lazy or ignorant.

How many conservatives were convinced, there would be 'death panels' to remove grandma? How many conservatives were told, that once this bill went through, they would only be allowed 'state' or 'federally' approved doctors? Actually that last one is only half correct. Since M.D.s and Nurse Practioners have to pass state and federal standard and tests, to be allowed to practice. But the information source, was saying it, in a manner, like out of George Orwell's '1984'.

Quite alot of them. They didnt read the bill, and allowed others to 'think for them'. They have no one to blame, but themselves. And this guy, truckinslave, is just a fine example of just that.

(in reply to THELADY)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 6:56:34 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ever been to a NP? Do you even know what they are?


Yes.  I have had no problems.

What they are?

The simplest explanation that I can give is that they are between an MD and a nurse.  A nurse has a bachelors degree (or associates), a doctor has a doctorate, and a nurse practitioner has a master's degree. 

In a lot of ways they are similar to a D.O., as they can diagnose, treat, and prescribe, but they have an MD over them. 

_____________________________

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I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 6:58:35 PM   
THELADY


Posts: 116
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		several representatives said they didn't have time (or 3 lawyers) to read it and peloski said we would have to pass it to find out what's in it...

I don't know about some consertives, but when palin said death pannels I knew there were no pannels called death pannels, that what she was refering to was pannels that will regulate what services or meds would be allowed... and the guy our presbO choose to oversee the health care said last week that it was not a question of if we would have to ration care, we will have to do so, the question was if we would ration with our eyes open....

nope, no death pannels, but if u r too old (no reason to spend 10 thous. on an old geezer who may only have a few yrs left)....or as the presbO said his grandma should not have had knee surgery 2 yr before she died, or some times, you just have to tell them to take the blue pill or have if u have something rare and expensive ....

ahhh call it what ya want, but don't call it death pannels!

and if it dosen't work, if it upsets people, they can always blame it on bush.

(in reply to joether)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 7:35:02 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

nope, no death pannels, but if u r too old (no reason to spend 10 thous. on an old geezer who may only have a few yrs left)....or as the presbO said his grandma should not have had knee surgery 2 yr before she died, or some times, you just have to tell them to take the blue pill or have if u have something rare and expensive ....

ahhh call it what ya want, but don't call it death pannels!


What I call it is a fucking lie. Unless, of course, it's simply that you have no idea what you're talking about. Care to offer a cite for this assertion?


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 7:44:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ever been to a NP? Do you even know what they are?


Yes.  I have had no problems.

What they are?

The simplest explanation that I can give is that they are between an MD and a nurse.  A nurse has a bachelors degree (or associates), a doctor has a doctorate, and a nurse practitioner has a master's degree. 

In a lot of ways they are similar to a D.O., as they can diagnose, treat, and prescribe, but they have an MD over them. 


Correct, except they can possess a Doctorate as well.

Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP)
The Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) is an advanced-level practice degree that focuses on the clinical aspects of nursing rather than academic research. The curriculum for the DNP degree generally includes advanced practice, leadership, and application of clinical research. The DNP is intended primarily to prepare registered nurses to become advanced practice nurses. Advanced practice roles in nursing include the nurse practitioner (NP), certified registered nurse anesthetist (CRNA), certified nurse midwife (CNM), and the clinical nurse specialist (CNS). Nurse anesthetist programs may use the title Doctor of Nurse Anesthesia Practice (DNAP) for their terminal degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate_in_Nursing

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 7:46:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

nope, no death pannels, but if u r too old (no reason to spend 10 thous. on an old geezer who may only have a few yrs left)....or as the presbO said his grandma should not have had knee surgery 2 yr before she died, or some times, you just have to tell them to take the blue pill or have if u have something rare and expensive ....

ahhh call it what ya want, but don't call it death pannels!


What I call it is a fucking lie. Unless, of course, it's simply that you have no idea what you're talking about. Care to offer a cite for this assertion?



Try the NHS.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
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RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 8:25:46 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Whatever the hell that's supposed to mean...

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: 0bama0s top 10 healthcare lies - 8/5/2010 8:27:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Whatever the hell that's supposed to mean...


Think about it, especially in light of the statements made by our new Health Care Czar.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
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