joether
Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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Point 1:
I have a few conservative minded friends. They would like an Amendment, that would modify the 14th, to a conservative (read: racist) view point. I counter it with the following:
"Ok, you can have your reinterpetation of the 14th, but, agree, liberals can reinterpet the 2nd Amendment the way they want."
I have found, not a single conservative wants to change the 14th after that. Or just substitue, '2nd' for '10th'.
Point 2:
I once put a stone on the table, that we were all gathered around, and said:
"If you have commited a crime, that you have not been fully prosecuted and paid in jail or fine, then, by all means; pick up the stone and cast it at an illegal immigrant".
Everyday, I see people speeding down the roads of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (liberal state), and New Hampshire (mostly conservative state). If the arguement, that we should (according to conservatives, again), deport, every illegal. Then shouldn't we also be stopping EVERY speeder, and charging them to the full extent of the law, regardless of the situation? And that penalty should be the maximine jail/fine? And when I say, speeding, I mean, 0.1 mph OVER, the speed limit (because conservatives seem to have embraced, draconiam politics). If the posted speed limit is 55 mph, and your traveling, 56 mph, your breaking the law. And since you were only traveiling, 56 mph, your given the same punishment as someone doing 130 mps. Does that sound sane to any of you conservatives?
That literally is the viewpoint (metaphorically), that conservatives hold towards 'illegal immigration'.
Point 3:
quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Its difficult politically to argue that the child of an illegal immigrant should have the right to run for President whilst someone like Schwarzenegger who has made a significant contribution to the US should not have that right.
It is not difficult politically. The only difficulty, is (at the moment), conservatives in the USA, trying to tie the actions of the kid's parents, to the kid. If someone is born in the United States of America, as defined under the US Constitution, they can run for the Office of the President. So the kid's parents were illegal immigrants, so what. If that kid does a good job, as president, I believe most people (except the racists), will easily over look the history.
Point 4:
quote:
ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am thinking out loud with no statistics but I wonder if the real idea in having a baby in the US is not for citizenship but welfare benefits?
Study after study, ranging from independant non-profits, to even the University of New Mexico, have found that the suspected population of illegal immigrants, contribute more to the US economy, then they take out. In New Mexico alone (the study for UNM was published, 2007), the state gained $200 million over, what the illegal immigrants took from it. At a federal level, according to the Congressinal Budget Office (cbo.gov), the estimate amount of revenue from illegal immigrants paying taxes to the USA (or the states themselves), is to be $36 billion/year. Not bad for a the grand majority making LESS then the federal minimal wage of $7.25/hour. Oh, an yes, they to pay alot of the taxes, Americans do. Just consider the following idea:
A illegal immigrant from Peru (who hopped the border from Mexico to Texas), walks in to a convience store. He puts down a loaf of bread, six pack of beer, a sugary treat for his two kids, two packs of cigarettes, and $15 dollars for the heap of a truck he has outside. He looks at the clerk as the person is ringing up the order, "I'd like to get the illegal immigrant tax discount. I dont want to pay your taxes, cus I'm not here legally". Do you REALLY think the clerk will do so, and remove the state/federal taxes?
For example, the Commonwealth of Massachusett's budget is based on tax and fee revenue. The amount it receives from personal income taxes of individuals and corporations is about $8 Billion of the $27.4 Billion. The majority, comes from the Sales Tax at about $17 Billion. So, those illegal immigrants in MA, do not pay state taxes, but pay the sales taxe, plus other fees and taxes. In addition, the IRS has a volunatary federal income tax program. The illegal immigrants, have been paying this tax, and in large numbers each year. Why do they do this? Would conservatives in the USA, pay taxes if they didn't have to?
(disclaimer: the actual amount of the MA budget may have changed recently for 2011, but the figures are still more or less correct)
Point 5:
quote:
ORIGINAL: kdsub
after you posted I ran a search on children of illegal aliens and welfare benefits... you should do the same. I would list links but there are so many I think you can look for yourself.
After you posted, I ran a search on people who think President Obama isn't an American. You should do the same. I would list the links, but there are so many, I think you can look for yourself.
Yes, If I were to look, for 'children of illegal aliens and welfare benefits', I'm sure 99% of them, would be from individuals with a serious, racists bias on the subject. The small percentage (less then 1%), would be from legitimate sources, and would tell a much different picture, then the other 99%. Just like the amount of 'information' that the Mr. Obama, isn't a citizen of the USA, but of another country.
Point 6:
quote:
ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am talking about the children not the parents...search again... it cost California $64,000,000 in 2009 for children born in the US of illegal aliens. That is a pretty good amount on a state that is bankrupt.
How much did it cost California in 2009, to pay for children born in the US of U.S. citizens? I'm sure its a pretty good amount...MORE...then the illegal immigrants. That would have, according to logic, a much BIGGER impact on a state with regards to bankruptcy.
And could you itemize this $64,000 break down, of the child in Calinfornia, or give an legimate and trustworthy source? Like a state or federal website?
< Message edited by joether -- 8/7/2010 11:38:30 AM >
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RE: 14th amendment debate - 
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