RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post

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AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 4:24:26 PM)
Quick Reply The difference between a Drunk and a sub needing aftercare is that the drunk gets called a Dumbass, is given a Bucket and a Blanket and then left to their own abuse. This issue is about someone wanting to be coddled. This is what I have an issue with. The OP has yet to take responsibility for what is basically her own Misery, and instead of doing so is acting like a child stomping her feet wanting to know why she isn't getting everything she expects to get. There are so many Analogies that could work but lets put it just as the Op did. She asked to play with other people and do as she pleased. She was told that would be fine. She never discussed how she would be received when she returned. She never asked if he would be okay receiving her after someone else Topped her. She went out and played, had an experience that affected her heavily enough that she was incoherent. She had her friends take her back to someone she knew would be asleep and unaware of what happened. She expected him to see to her needs. She expected him to coddle her inability to clearly state what she wanted. She expected that just because they were in a relationship that he would accept coddeling she though she needed She got angry at him when he explained how he felt She decided that she didn't have any love for him anymore. She has, because of this one event, decided that he isn't someone she can rely on. She has expected him to take all the responsibility for her actions as well as his own and yet there is no Power Dynamic in place. She is contemplating changing the relatioship all because he won't do what she wants him to do when she wants him to do it no matter how he feels about the subject and if he doesn't then he isn't worth her time. Sorry if anyone thinks this is a horrible guy, in reality I most likely would have done something very similar to it. If she is a big enough girl to make all her own decision on who, how, when, and where she plays (Even with Permission) then she is a big enough girl to make sure her needs are taken care of BEFORE they become a downward spiral. QSM

Aileen1968 -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 4:35:26 PM)
fast reply Are people still going on and on about this? She didn't get cuddled. I think she'll live. In fact, she's doing well enough to be posting here for 8 pages, so I don't think she's all that bad off.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 4:42:16 PM)
Cheryl, and believe me past mistakes and histories DO get in the way here, there's some people around here who just absolutely love to point and cackle at you because they don't like you or think your posts are stupid, and heaven forbid if you said something 6 months to a year ago, and now your situations changed Some around here love to be like well 6 months ago you said................ quote: ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana Sometimes people need anonymous help from strangers, that’s why agony aunts were invented, I don’t remember any agony aunt saying that because anonymous didn’t put down their real name that they considered them wrong for doing so. Not giving your name gives you the chance to ask for advice without prior knowledge of your past getting in the way. It gives you the chance to look at advice and see if you want to follow it or not without the obligation of having friends say later, well serves you right for ignoring what I said, or I told you so. Cheryl

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 5:03:48 PM)
Oh come on she didn't "tittle tattle" to the other partner, the other partner ASKED on her OWN how are you doing? The OP then said she was ok. If I ask you how you're doing, you're not "tittle tattling" to me, because I came to you, YOU did not come to me. And this whole idea that it's equal to getting drunk at night an then coming home 3 sheets to the wind, isn't even close, because presumably you know what will make you 3 sheets to the wind, and you know not to do that. Bad reactions after a brand new UNPLANNED FOR occurance, can't be planned for, she didn't know she was going to come home "3 sheets to the wind" and she didn't know that having a scene with friends was going to " make her drunk." And if you knowingly did get drunk and come home 3 sheets to the wind and then suddenly feel to ill to get a glass of water or a blanket, then, he should of been helpful enough to do that, and yes, then be cross at her tomorrow. It's basic curtesy. And He should of told the friends when they brought her back YOU do after care I want no part of it, He was awake enough to talk to her and her friends and assure them things were ok, He's at fault if he told them go on home things are fine here, when they were not. quote: ORIGINAL: subsfaith This post really pushes my buttons. The obvious answer to me, having read all the subsequent posts, appears to be he was pissy because of your poor behaviour. There may be other contributing factors, but your behaviour would appear to be the major one. He was right in his analogy, well almost. Let me put it another way, you go out, you get pissed, you come home and puke on the bed, he will clean it up, but he is going to be cross with you for your poor behaviour. And on top of that, you argue that he is wrong... more reason to be pissy with you. You tittle-tattle to his other partner... looking for support? Ultimately this will cause pissyness! I think what pushes my buttons the most is that he did care for you, he got you water, her cleared up the bed when you made a mess, he cuddled and talked to you, but you can't even acknowledge that. I wonder did you say thank you? No, you questioned if he would be there for you... you used the word ignorant when talking about him, the same could be used for yourself. He may not have done these things in a manner in which you expected, but why should he, he is your boyfriend, not your lackey and he was cross with you! OP, grow up and take some responsibility rather than concentrating on woe is me.

sirsholly -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 6:43:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent No. He doesn't have any 'responsibility to deal with things'. You wanted to go - your choice. You wanted to enjoy yourself - your choice. So why on earth do you think he has an obligation to 'cuddle you' or get you a drink of water? I think you got off lightly....because I wouldn't have given you a drink of water...I'd have fuckin' drowned you on the basis of your ill-conceived expectations. Nothing worse than a horrible spoilt bitch who wants the freedom to trapse round the place and then expects comfort and security when it suits. Did you happen to miss the part about the reason why he did not want to go with her: He wanted to spend alone time with his other lover? edit: clarity Then i must have missed it too. As per the opening post: quote: Two days ago on Saturday night, my boyfriend and I were at a kink event in a city other than our own. We were sharing a hotel room with his other partner, and quite a few of our friends were also at the event. After asking him if he wanted to play, either in the room or in the dungeon at the hotel - or just come down and be with me while I tried out the fire cupping or some other tasty new experience - he declined. One of our female friends had expressed interest (bouncing enthusiasm) at the prospect of topping me (we've played before), and I asked if that would be alright with him. He agreed that would be alright. Our mutual friend that will be topping me arrived at the hotel room door, and I once again clarify what he is comfortable with me doing for the evening. Can I play with anyone? What is acceptable? I'm asking this again because there are professional riggers downstairs and lots of other people that can do awesome cool things. If I get the opportunity I want to take advantage of it. This does not sound like a selfless act on the part of the OP. She did not leave so her boyfriend could have some private time with his other lady. She wanted to play. Now...I am an adult. I am an adult who is married to my Dominant. There are ties that bind me both emotionally and legally to my husband. That said, there is still no freaking way in hell i would ever...EVER...expect him to accept responsibility for me. EVER. I accept responsibility for myself. Always and to the best of my ability. If my ability will be compromised by a situation i have put myself in, i do not put myself in that situation. The OP willingly put herself in a situation where her ability to accept responsibility for herself was compromised. She then refused the care offered by those she attended the play party with, stating instead she wanted her boyfriend to care for her. She knew her ability to function normally was negated, yet she refused the help of those offering, choosing instead to dump herself onto her sleeping boyfriend. Now, it would certainly have been the humane thing to do on his part to give her the care she required. I would have. Most others would have cared for her as well. His behavior sounds like anger, and frankly i do not blame him for feeling that way. The fault as i see it lies with the OP for assuming and expecting him to accept responsibility for her. She was NOT his responsibility in any way. If responsibility lies anywhere other than with the OP, it lies with those she played with and who were a party to her level of sub-space. They willing accepted that responsibility but were refused. Allow me to use a different scenario, as i fear i am not making sense. Many here know i had a pretty bad accident a few months ago. I was mostly unable to care for myself while in the hospital, depending on the hospital staff to meet my needs. What if i refused the care of the doctors and nurses, called a cab and suddenly showed up at home, expecting my husband to care for me? Certainly he would have done whatever he could, but he would have been justifiably furious at me for leaving the setting where there were others who had the experience to meet my needs and instead dumping myself and the responsibility for my care squarely on his one set of shoulders. I would have forced him to be responsible for my care, and i have no right to do that to him or anyone else.

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 6:55:27 PM)
She may not be his responsibility. Holly, but she has the right to walk away from someone who has such an inhumane attitude too. The thread seemed to be about her mental processes in figuring out whether to stay or go. It is not about responsibility or even right and wrong. It is about whether or not she will continue in a relationship. She has as much responsibility to remain in an unfulfilling relationship as he had to care for her.... As you stated, her first responsibility is to herself, she should exercise that by finding a compatible partner.

sirsholly -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 7:52:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania She may not be his responsibility. Holly, but she has the right to walk away from someone who has such an inhumane attitude too. The thread seemed to be about her mental processes in figuring out whether to stay or go. It is not about responsibility or even right and wrong. It is about whether or not she will continue in a relationship. She has as much responsibility to remain in an unfulfilling relationship as he had to care for her.... As you stated, her first responsibility is to herself, she should exercise that by finding a compatible partner. Thank you, Julia, but please allow me to assure you i am highly confident in my ability to comprehend the topic at hand.

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 7:53:44 PM)
I did not know I questioned your comprehension skills, but if you want to read my response this way, this is a free forum and you can do whatever it is that turns you on.

angelikaJ -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 8:30:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent No. He doesn't have any 'responsibility to deal with things'. You wanted to go - your choice. You wanted to enjoy yourself - your choice. So why on earth do you think he has an obligation to 'cuddle you' or get you a drink of water? I think you got off lightly....because I wouldn't have given you a drink of water...I'd have fuckin' drowned you on the basis of your ill-conceived expectations. Nothing worse than a horrible spoilt bitch who wants the freedom to trapse round the place and then expects comfort and security when it suits. Did you happen to miss the part about the reason why he did not want to go with her: He wanted to spend alone time with his other lover? edit: clarity Then i must have missed it too. As per the opening post: quote: Two days ago on Saturday night, my boyfriend and I were at a kink event in a city other than our own. We were sharing a hotel room with his other partner, and quite a few of our friends were also at the event. After asking him if he wanted to play, either in the room or in the dungeon at the hotel - or just come down and be with me while I tried out the fire cupping or some other tasty new experience - he declined. One of our female friends had expressed interest (bouncing enthusiasm) at the prospect of topping me (we've played before), and I asked if that would be alright with him. He agreed that would be alright. Our mutual friend that will be topping me arrived at the hotel room door, and I once again clarify what he is comfortable with me doing for the evening. Can I play with anyone? What is acceptable? I'm asking this again because there are professional riggers downstairs and lots of other people that can do awesome cool things. If I get the opportunity I want to take advantage of it. This does not sound like a selfless act on the part of the OP. She did not leave so her boyfriend could have some private time with his other lady. She wanted to play. Now...I am an adult. I am an adult who is married to my Dominant. There are ties that bind me both emotionally and legally to my husband. That said, there is still no freaking way in hell i would ever...EVER...expect him to accept responsibility for me. EVER. I accept responsibility for myself. Always and to the best of my ability. If my ability will be compromised by a situation i have put myself in, i do not put myself in that situation. The OP willingly put herself in a situation where her ability to accept responsibility for herself was compromised. She then refused the care offered by those she attended the play party with, stating instead she wanted her boyfriend to care for her. She knew her ability to function normally was negated, yet she refused the help of those offering, choosing instead to dump herself onto her sleeping boyfriend. Now, it would certainly have been the humane thing to do on his part to give her the care she required. I would have. Most others would have cared for her as well. His behavior sounds like anger, and frankly i do not blame him for feeling that way. The fault as i see it lies with the OP for assuming and expecting him to accept responsibility for her. She was NOT his responsibility in any way. If responsibility lies anywhere other than with the OP, it lies with those she played with and who were a party to her level of sub-space. They willing accepted that responsibility but were refused. From another post: quote: His not going was an opportunity for him to have some private, intimate time with his other partner. He was happy to have me occupied and out of the room. I certainly did not ignore him all evening, I was gone for about 90 minutes. I even made sure to ask what the minimum time was that he wanted to be left alone with her, as to not interrupt their intimacy. It seemed to be a good plan for everyone involved. No one would be left out or lonely and everyone would be happy. He knew it was midnight when I left, and knew when (approximately) I would be getting back. My friends, our friends, would have happily helped me if they had known he would not. [quote/]

Fluke -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 8:34:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly The OP willingly put herself in a situation where her ability to accept responsibility for herself was compromised. She then refused the care offered by those she attended the play party with, stating instead she wanted her boyfriend to care for her. She knew her ability to function normally was negated, yet she refused the help of those offering, choosing instead to dump herself onto her sleeping boyfriend. Umm... While I usually think your posts are spot on, I can't really get my head around this paragraph... Her ability to accept responsibility for herself was compromised.. In this state she refused the care offered by those she attended the play party with, stating instead she wanted her boyfriend to care for her.. Her ability to function normally was negated, thus she refused the help of those offering, choosing instead to dump herself onto her sleeping boyfriend... I have seen truly horrific responses to this thread, this is not one of them, but for some reason I felt these statements sort of explained themselves....

sirsholly -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 8:38:59 PM)
Angelika...the way i see it, she decided to attend a play party without him and thus he was presented with the opportunity for private time with his other partner.

WyldHrt -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 8:49:29 PM)
quote: Angelika...the way i see it, she decided to attend a play party without him and thus he was presented with the opportunity for private time with his other partner. It's kind of chicken and egg, IMO. That said, they were at a BDSM event. It's not like they were at home and she went off to a play party (not that it would make much difference to me). I think it's pretty normal to want to play at an event, but maybe it's just me. ETA- Per her posts, she did not decide to attend the event without him in the sense that she excluded him in favor of thier friends. She asked if he wanted to go and play with her, or even just go to be with her, and he declined. Per a later post, the reason was that he wanted to be alone with his other partner. She also stated that had he said that he didn't want her to go, she would have been fine staying with him and watching a movie or whatever. As someone said about him earlier, she isn't a mind reader. If he was bothered by her playing with friends, he should have said so.

WyldHrt -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 9:23:28 PM)
quote: Allow me to use a different scenario, as i fear i am not making sense. Many here know i had a pretty bad accident a few months ago. I was mostly unable to care for myself while in the hospital, depending on the hospital staff to meet my needs. What if i refused the care of the doctors and nurses, called a cab and suddenly showed up at home, expecting my husband to care for me? Certainly he would have done whatever he could, but he would have been justifiably furious at me for leaving the setting where there were others who had the experience to meet my needs and instead dumping myself and the responsibility for my care squarely on his one set of shoulders. I would have forced him to be responsible for my care, and i have no right to do that to him or anyone else. You know Holly, I usually agree with you, but not this time. In your above scenario, it appears that you would be in control of your mental faculties. Would he be just as angry if it turned out that you were completely incoherent at the time from injury/ medication and didn't really understand what you were doing? If the only thought that you were capable of at the time was wanting to be close to him? Somehow, I doubt it. OTOH, were you to trip and fall (not that that ever happens [:D]) then drag yourself into the house with a sprained ankle only to have him say, "You did it to yourself. Get your own ice and bandage", I don't think that would go over too well. Of course I could be wrong.

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 9:41:19 PM)
I think if we replaced "public play" with a sport such as baseball, etc, we would see dramatically different responses if she woke him up and said, "Hey, I got nailed in the head with a ball and I am dizzy and sick to my stomach" . I wonder if it is the public play with others not her boyfriend that is upsetting to people, perhaps it shows how poly relationships can be very complicated as to the responsibilities that people feel towards one another?

sirsholly -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 10:31:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt quote: Allow me to use a different scenario, as i fear i am not making sense. Many here know i had a pretty bad accident a few months ago. I was mostly unable to care for myself while in the hospital, depending on the hospital staff to meet my needs. What if i refused the care of the doctors and nurses, called a cab and suddenly showed up at home, expecting my husband to care for me? Certainly he would have done whatever he could, but he would have been justifiably furious at me for leaving the setting where there were others who had the experience to meet my needs and instead dumping myself and the responsibility for my care squarely on his one set of shoulders. I would have forced him to be responsible for my care, and i have no right to do that to him or anyone else. You know Holly, I usually agree with you, but not this time. In your above scenario, it appears that you would be in control of your mental faculties. Would he be just as angry if it turned out that you were completely incoherent at the time from injury/ medication and didn't really understand what you were doing? If the only thought that you were capable of at the time was wanting to be close to him? Somehow, I doubt it. Your point is well taken, Wyld. To answer your question...no, Jim would not be angry if i were completely incoherent. But was the OP in that state? Certainly her level of consciousness was altered, but she was able to walk to her room, verbalize what she wanted and needed (wanted to be with her boyfriend, needed water and food, was cold) was able to recognize and verbalize what was wrong ("endorphin reaction") and seems to have excellent recall of the events that occurred. This simply does not add up to someone who is completely incoherent, nor does it add up to someone who is not responsible, at least in part, for their own behavior. quote: OTOH, were you to trip and fall (not that that ever happens [:D]) wise ass!! quote: then drag yourself into the house with a sprained ankle only to have him say, "You did it to yourself. Get your own ice and bandage", I don't think that would go over too well. Of course I could be wrong. That would float like a box of rocks. If i had tripped and stumbled (shaddup!!) Jim would be right there with the ice pack. However...if there were others around that could/would help, but i refused their help and put the responsibility solely on him, i could understand it if he was a bit miffed.

WyldHrt -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 11:22:25 PM)
quote: I think if we replaced "public play" with a sport such as baseball, etc, we would see dramatically different responses if she woke him up and said, "Hey, I got nailed in the head with a ball and I am dizzy and sick to my stomach" . I brought up the food poisoning scenario with the same thought, Julia. I think you are right. quote: I wonder if it is the public play with others not her boyfriend that is upsetting to people, perhaps it shows how poly relationships can be very complicated as to the responsibilities that people feel towards one another? I really don't know, as I'm not poly, but that may be it. I have to say, this whole thread really bothers me. Some of the people who have outright attacked the OP came as a surprise, and not a welcome one. I can understand those that have never been in subspace not understanding what it is like, but still don't get some of the over-the-top reactions equating the OP's behaviour with knowingly going out and getting smashed. Had she known that she would be in deep space or even that it was even a possibility, I could understand this reaction, but the fact is that it had never happened to her before and she didn't even suspect that it would happen that night. She had played multiple times before with the same top, and only got a 'runner's high' type space from it. Per her words, the scene wasn't even any rougher than normal, and didn't even leave bruises. That's a pretty far cry from downing tequila shooters at a bar and saying later that you didn't know you were gonna get smashed, unless you never had a drink before. The first time I went into subspace, I wasn't expecting it. I had played reasonably hard before and was bouncing around, all good afterward, no care needed. On this occasion though- I got up from the bench, thinking I was fine, and tried to put my robe on. It was taken from me by the Top I was playing with and she put it on me, which is just as well, because the sleeves kept moving, lol. I was put in a chair, and given water. I remember her looking into my eyes and I'm pretty sure she said something about me being 'gone', which was true. I got a cigarette out, and it was taken from me, because apparently I had just finished one that I didn't remember smoking. I was fortunate in that I was with a Top who knew what was happening, and cared enough about me to make sure I was taken care of. smooches, you know who you are I'm certainly not putting everything on the bf here. There was an obvious lack of communication and disparity in expectations from the get go, along with something that simply wasn't forseen by anyone. That said, the friends called him before bringing her up, he let them in, they chatted with him for a few minutes, and left her with his arm around her. I would think, under those circumstances, he would be awake enough to realize that something was wrong and at least give her a blanket and some water when she asked. Meh, maybe it's just me. ~ edited to fix the wall-o-text, lol

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 11:23:17 PM)
That and few people consentually trip and fall, and when you are in a sport it is a possibility that you may get hurt. But the basic care is done by a doctor. Not the man at home. The analogy of refusing the care of a Doctor and then going home to the boyfriend to care for the situation is what is happening here. Why jump the boyfriend who had no part in how she got the way she got and ignore the fact that there were people who agreed to play with her that really did nothing. Still as it stands for me I would still be looking at this as a great learning piece. She would never again do something like this without making sure her bases were covered. QSM

WyldHrt -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 11:42:35 PM)
quote: Your point is well taken, Wyld. To answer your question...no, Jim would not be angry if i were completely incoherent. But was the OP in that state? Certainly her level of consciousness was altered, but she was able to walk to her room, verbalize what she wanted and needed (wanted to be with her boyfriend, needed water and food, was cold) was able to recognize and verbalize what was wrong ("endorphin reaction") and seems to have excellent recall of the events that occurred. This simply does not add up to someone who is completely incoherent, nor does it add up to someone who is not responsible, at least in part, for their own behavior. Actually, she wasn't able to walk to her room without 2 people assisting. As for the rest, all I can say is that, when I am in that state, I may be able to verbalize certain base things (cold, hungry, thirsty, need you) but not much more. Per the OP, she couldn't even verbalize that her hands weren't working when she dropped the water. Tell me that the towels are in the bathroom when I'm spacing, and I will likely look at you like you have 2 heads. The next day, I usually remember what happened, but that's me. While many have made the comparison, it's really quite different than being drunk, and the reactions really aren't the same. quote: OTOH, were you to trip and fall (not that that ever happens [:D]) quote: wise ass!! Moi?? borrows CD's halo quote: That would float like a box of rocks. If i had tripped and stumbled (shaddup!!) Jim would be right there with the ice pack. However...if there were others around that could/would help, but i refused their help and put the responsibility solely on him, i could understand it if he was a bit miffed. Even if you hit your head on the way down (not that that ever happens [:D]) and were a bit confused?

WyldHrt -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/12/2010 11:49:58 PM)
quote: Still as it stands for me I would still be looking at this as a great learning piece. She would never again do something like this without making sure her bases were covered I can at least agree with this... and it is certainly something I will keep in mind as well when playing with and going to clubs with friends. Hopefully, my learning will not come after a night like the OP had.

ranja -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/13/2010 1:19:20 AM)
~FR~ You had a brilliant orgasm because of a pain in your shoulder... i really do not see what you are complaining about ...some people always have to look at the negative things, blech...

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