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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont agree with birthright citizenship... but thats not for this thread.

I do believe we have far bigger and better things to discuss than where to build the next mosque. My personal opinion? Ask those directly affected by the event. I have no issue with it being built there. But its not my issue. I can see the benefits of such a place, i can also see the pain some may experience knowing how close its being built.

Its time to let the healing begin.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh, without a doubt its an emotional issue being exploited for potential votes. Perhaps they have yet to realize the public isnt that easily fooled this time around?

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ORIGINAL: taniatv

Am I high here or is this the worst case of putting words in one's mouth that I have read?

Where did I say that muslims are not people or don't have feelings? Where did I say that juliaoceania's feelings are worthless and where have I come across that I think my feelings are somehow special and superior?

I have acknowledged their right to practice their religion and for them to build a place of worship. I just questioned the location they chose. These people are not ignorant, they will know the decision to build the house in that place would upset a lot of people. Why there? Why there Elisabella? Yes I know they alreacy have a facility there but why expand it with all the bells and whistles.

It appears also that the muslims in question might agree with my sentiment now anyway....... now, that they are lacking the funds to build, this sounds like shyster opportunism at it's worst if true. Why decide to build there in the first place?

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And this is not the first time you side step the fucking issue. Read your own list of intolerant assholes, which is notably missing the intolerant assholes who send authors and painters into hiding, the intolerant assholes who riot across the globe slinging threats of violence and war when someone doesn't treat their book the way they want it treated, the intolerant assholes who last week murdered everyone but a muslim in an attack on health care givers.

If you can't read your own lists, and understand this issue is bigger than you, goes beyond you, and believe that one religion is not attacked to support another, you're worse than an idiot. Hell, just go to the end of the thread and read vincents treatise. He;s all about cross burning now. Imagine the fucking eye roll.

I'm quite alright with him burning a cross on his lawn and willing to bet it is the police who show up rather than a village full of baptists with pitchforks.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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And this is not the first time you side step the fucking issue. Read your own list of intolerant assholes, which is notably missing the intolerant assholes who send authors and painters into hiding, the intolerant assholes who riot across the globe slinging threats of violence and war when someone doesn't treat their book the way they want it treated, the intolerant assholes who last week murdered everyone but a muslim in an attack on health care givers.

If you can't read your own lists, and understand this issue is bigger than you, goes beyond you, and believe that one religion is not attacked to support another, you're worse than an idiot. Hell, just go to the end of the thread and read vincents treatise. He;s all about cross burning now. Imagine the fucking eye roll.

I'm quite alright with him burning a cross on his lawn and willing to bet it is the police who show up rather than a village full of baptists with pitchforks.

I have not side stepped an issue.... those "intolerant assholes" have nothing to do with the rights of American Muslims to build a cultural center on private property several blocks away from Ground Zero. The intolerant assholes I listed do not want them to build Mosques...

What do nonAmericans have to do with Americans respecting each other's freedom?

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They have the right. The question is, do they have the idiocy to do so. Because if they do, and one, just one fanatical type emerges from even a tiny association with the place, it will raise a political firestorm from hell. This isn't a rights issue. It is an emotional one for the country.

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And Democrats are running from it. Talk about political decisions, Mr. Reid's break with Obama is pretty damned telling.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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They have the right. The question is, do they have the idiocy to do so. Because if they do, and one, just one fanatical type emerges from even a tiny association with the place, it will raise a political firestorm from hell. This isn't a rights issue. It is an emotional one for the country.

Too bad non Muslim Americans do not have the same standard for the violent intolerant people that come from their own backyard...

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And Democrats are running from it. Talk about political decisions, Mr. Reid's break with Obama is pretty damned telling.

I don't care how pussified politicians are, tell me something I don't know..You say these things like Republican cheerleader, like Republicans never run away from a stance... puhlease, 99.9% of politicians are narcissistic bastards.

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ORIGINAL: Elisabella

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ORIGINAL: taniatv

Am I high here or is this the worst case of putting words in one's mouth that I have read?

Where did I say that muslims are not people or don't have feelings? Where did I say that juliaoceania's feelings are worthless and where have I come across that I think my feelings are somehow special and superior?

I have acknowledged their right to practice their religion and for them to build a place of worship. I just questioned the location they chose. These people are not ignorant, they will know the decision to build the house in that place would upset a lot of people. Why there? Why there Elisabella? Yes I know they alreacy have a facility there but why expand it with all the bells and whistles.

It appears also that the muslims in question might agree with my sentiment now anyway....... now, that they are lacking the funds to build, this sounds like shyster opportunism at it's worst if true. Why decide to build there in the first place?

I wasn't referring to Julia with my post, I was talking about your complete and utter insensitivity to the feelings of Muslims who want to build this community center.

American Muslims were hurt in so many ways by 9/11 - not only were there Muslims who died in the actual terrorist attack, but ever since that day nearly 10 years ago, they have had to live under a cloud of suspicion from "normal Americans" as they consider themselves - their religion is foreign, their food is foreign, their wanting to build a community center close to the site of the tragedy is met with outrage.

You ask "why there" I ask "why not there?" Why is it only Christians who can look to their religion for solace in scary times? So many people are seeing this as an insult, as if the reason the people chose that site was just because they're insensitive. So I say to you - you're being insensitive to their feelings and needs. That community needs to be able to heal and move past 9/11, they really do, and you getting angry at their needs and their feelings, then turning around and saying THEY are the insensitive ones, is the height of arrogance.

Try living as a Muslim in NYC for the past 10 years before questioning their motivations.

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ORIGINAL: StrangerThan
Why are you so adamant this mosque/cultural center be constructed in that spot?

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Why are you so adamant this mosque/cultural center be constructed in that spot?

Why do you so adamantly insist everyone is intolerant when the flagship you're riding on is supported by a flotilla of intolerance?

I don't have to be a republican cheerleader to know that if their strategists don't use this for all its worth, then the need new strategists. They have solid poll numbers, across political beliefs and parties. Thinking they won't is silly.

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It is truly a shame that many American muslims were hurt after 9-11 I have nothing but sympathy for those people.

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I also truly believe that the majority of these peaceful, law abiding muslims would not want the mosque built in the shadow of the WTC.

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If the people behind the expansion of cordoba house were truly all about the 'healing' and 'moving past 9-11' they would surely and without hesitation scrap the plans and consider another project at a later date when time itself had done the healing.

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These people must see the hurt that this proposed building is causing in the NYC community, if they honestly want to conciliate relations then why is this house still an issue?

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Also let me disclaim that before you throw further derogatory accusations - I am not talking about the peaceful law abiding muslim community in the US I am talking about the people behind the project, the former obviously have no say in the matter.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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Why are you so adamant this mosque/cultural center be constructed in that spot?

Why do you so adamantly insist everyone is intolerant when the flagship you're riding on is supported by a flotilla of intolerance?

I don't have to be a republican cheerleader to know that if their strategists don't use this for all its worth, then the need new strategists. They have solid poll numbers, across political beliefs and parties. Thinking they won't is silly.

Like I said, politicians are narcissistic assholes who think nothing of ginning up hate for political ends... wtf is new about that?

I adamantly support religious freedom, and I adamantly support people getting to know each other instead of hating each other... a hard concept for some to understand

It isn't a mosque, and your refusal to keep from calling it one shows you are not discussing in an honest manner... also it is several blocks from ground zero, so on this account you are also being a part of ginning up fear...

Now, you consistently bring up non sequiturs in your posts to me that have nothing to do with my positions... such as this little gem

Why do you so adamantly insist everyone is intolerant when the flagship you're riding on is supported by a flotilla of intolerance?

I am not on a flagship. And there are plenty of people here arguing from a place of intolerance

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The flagship you are on is tolerance of Islam. In one of your posts, you state, we need to embrace it.

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This debate is not about Constitutional rights. It is not about race. It is about a nation attacked and about the emotions that still linger. It is about the wisdom of building this structure close to ground zero at this point in history.

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The flagship of embracing islam is one that has a flotilla of religious intolerance behind it. I'm not talking centuries ago, or even decades ago. I'm talking yesterday, last year, the year before. Hell, start looking at the armed conflicts in the world and you will find islam behind a good many of them. You will find atrocities, church bombings, hatred of anyone who isn't muslim, outrages that lead to threats of violence, riots, death squads, the same homophobic stances so decried in other religions, and in even the most tolerant of islamic states, you will find radicals willing and able to pursue a violent agenda.

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Yeah, go ahead, tell me about the violent agendas of the religious types in America. I'll match you one for one of actual atrocities committed until you run dry and then you can sit like a good little schoolgirl while I keep going. This bullshit of defending one wrong by shooting up another is, in this area, outgunned.

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Embrace it my ass. Let them worship in peace? yes. Respect them as people? yes. Afford respect to their religious beliefs? Yes, to a degree. That degree ends when any religion takes outrage to violence.

But as far as their rights? Yeah they have the right to build it. I also believe, they have the intelligence to know it is a supremely bad idea at this point in time.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

This is not a first amendment issue, no one is saying they can't build their Mosque/Cultural Center, they're asking the Imam to please respect the tragedy of the attack, and show a little compassion for the people who lost loved ones on 11 September.

Is that really too much to ask for a bit of compassion from Muslims?

The really funny thing is, the people defending the Mosque, are the same ones who attacked Ann Coulter for her 911 Widows comments way back when. 

How funny is it that there are many Muslim families among "the people who lost loved ones on 11 September?"

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Honestly, what the fuck does this strawman have to do with anything? Do you see those families petitioning to allow the building to be built? I don't.

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"We do not need to fear Islam, we need to embrace it, and take the arrows that extremists use to convince moderate Muslims to fear us"

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

This is not a first amendment issue, no one is saying they can't build their Mosque/Cultural Center, they're asking the Imam to please respect the tragedy of the attack, and show a little compassion for the people who lost loved ones on 11 September.

Is that really too much to ask for a bit of compassion from Muslims?

The really funny thing is, the people defending the Mosque, are the same ones who attacked Ann Coulter for her 911 Widows comments way back when. 

How funny is it that there are many Muslim families among "the people who lost loved ones on 11 September?"

Honestly, what the fuck does this strawman have to do with anything? Do you see those families petitioning to allow the building to be built? I don't.