RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:03:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

No...but...I do have a picture of Clinton shaking hands with an alien....and don't think he was the last President to do that!



Could I get a copy?

Did this take place at Area 51?

Too bad the X-Files never got hold of that.





truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:10:24 PM)

quote:

Embrace it my ass. Let them worship in peace? yes. Respect them as people? yes. Afford respect to their religious beliefs?


No.
I think Islam deserves the same respect as the KKK, the NBPP, Aryan Nations, and all other groups that hold homophobia, sexism, anti-Semitism, and intolerance as cornerstones.



stef -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:18:49 PM)

Such as the Catholic church?

~stef



rulemylife -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:19:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

FDD it isn't that it is Islam in those nations, it is because they are fucking THEOCRACIES.


Islam IS a theocracy.


This might be a good read if you are concerned about theocracy:


American Theocracy,' by Kevin Phillips


Phillips has remained a prolific and important political commentator in the decades since, but he long ago abandoned his enthusiasm for the Republican coalition he helped to build.

His latest book (his 13th) looks broadly and historically at the political world the conservative coalition has painstakingly constructed over the last several decades. No longer does he see Republican government as a source of stability and order.

Instead, he presents a nightmarish vision of ideological extremism, catastrophic fiscal irresponsibility, rampant greed and dangerous shortsightedness. (His final chapter is entitled "The Erring Republican Majority.") In an era of best-selling jeremiads on both sides of the political divide, "American Theocracy" may be the most alarming analysis of where we are and where we may be going to have appeared in many years.



juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:20:47 PM)

quote:

American Theocracy,' by Kevin Phillips


Read it....lol... it had some good points



Kirata -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:22:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

No, I think if you extend this statement:
quote:

ALL RELIGION IS BULLSHIT.

Into:
quote:

ALL RELIGION IS BULLSHIT and religious people are ignorant, not as intelligent as atheists, and illogical

Then you crossed the line....

Seems more or less implicit, though, that someone who seriously believes in bullshit must of necessity be either ignorant or illogical or both. Of course, it could also be said that someone who cranks off about "all religion" when they lack knowledge of all there is to know about all of the world's religions is also implicitly either ignorant or illogical or both.

But hey, I don't mean to appear intolerant of intolerance. [:D]

K.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:23:06 PM)

quote:

all I can say is those of us that want the world to be a more tolerant place are often attacked the most..


Blessed be the peacemakers.
It will surprise you, I think, to learn that while I think it takes you to some strange places, I really do admire your obvious desire for peace, your gentle demeanor.
It's just that there are those who will not allow it. Evil wins if not violently resisted.
I simply identify as one of Churchills/Orwells rough men.

"He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them"



Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:25:42 PM)

shakes head in wonderment



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:30:14 PM)

I should add you to my prayers.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:42:30 PM)

quote:

This is not a "hallmark of Islam",


I could cite any number of Islamic practices, find quotes from the Koran, link to current events; but what's the use? If you do not see that intolerance is a leg of any verbal stool built to describe Islam, then your denial runs so deep that we're in alternate realities.

"religious fundamentalism and violence have their roots in socio economics"

Sure. Like, say, Saudi Arabia. Like Iranian support for terrorism. The most religiously violent nations are:

1. Rich
2. Islamic

Not all anything are equal; especially religions.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:46:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Such as the Catholic church?

~stef

Liberals so often make childish comparisons, and are unable to see that moral equivalence is the hobgoblin of little minds (a very foolish consistency indeed).

yeah, Catholics kill gays, stone women, and want to destroy Israel.



Politesub53 -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 3:55:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Liberals so often make childish comparisons, and are unable to see that moral equivalence is the hobgoblin of little minds (a very foolish consistency indeed).



Nearly as bad as comparing a cultural centre with a victory Mosque huh. [8|]



Elisabella -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 4:18:07 PM)

-FR-

Okay I'm not responding to anyone in particular, but a lot of people are saying that this is a "slap in the face" to WTC victims.

How, exactly? What exactly is so offensive about the presence of American Muslims at Ground Zero? I'd wager most of them identify as Americans first, Muslims second. Pushing them away, isolating them from a larger community, marginalizing them by identifying them with the terrorists rather than with the victims, even though they clearly are among the victims, is wrong.

And for those of you who do believe Islam is a "bad" religion, who are unable to see that most Muslims are as intolerant of Osama bin Laden as most Christians are intolerant of Fred Phelps, please try to consider that if these people were intending to do anything bad, the last thing they'd do is build a big community center in the light of day. These are just normal people, normal Americans, they follow a different God but America isn't exactly a Christian nation. Sure, lots of people pay lip service to Christianity, but the fact that Ground Zero can be referred to as "holy ground" or "hallowed ground" or anything like that is proof that this is not a religious country by any stretch of the imagination.

Really I've never considered "I'm offended" to hold much weight, no matter who says it, and I think anyone who gets offended that easily would be better served spending their time growing a thicker skin rather than trying to stop people from offending them.



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 4:21:35 PM)

quote:

Someone has learned a new catch word in his first psych class..."self loathing" Perhaps now that you have used it in a sentence you might actually look up what it means so you might use it properly.


I would have thought everyone here understood the role of self-loathing in much bdsm.

For an understanding of its importance to liberalism you might read The Liberal Mind The Psychological Causes of Political Madness by one Dr. Rossiter.

" So extravagant are the patterns of thinking, emoting, behaving and relating that characterize the liberal mind that its relentless protests and demands become understandable only as disorders of the psyche"



juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 4:32:41 PM)

quote:

Sure. Like, say, Saudi Arabia. Like Iranian support for terrorism. The most religiously violent nations are:

1. Rich
2. Islamic

Not all anything are equal; especially religions.


Are the people they recruit "rich"?



pogo4pres -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 5:01:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

FDD it isn't that it is Islam in those nations, it is because they are fucking THEOCRACIES.


Islam IS a theocracy.



Explain Turkey, a DEMOCRATIC, nation that has Islam as the major religion.  Did you even bother to read the definition of a theocracy, or were you just too lazy to be bothered.


Atheistically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ



dcnovice -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 5:03:26 PM)

FR

In today's Washington Post, Dana Millbank has an interesting column in which he interweaves comments about the Park51 project with excerpts from Washington's famous letter to the Hebrew congregation at Newport.

quote:

The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship.

-- Washington

"President Obama's support of building the mosque at Ground Zero is a slap in the face to the American people. . . . In fact, the majority of the country is strongly opposed to building a mosque at the site of the most tragic terrorist attack on America. I will continue to demmand [sic] President Obama to reverse his support on this."

-- Sen. David Vitter (R-La).



pogo4pres -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 5:05:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Seems more or less implicit, though, that someone who seriously believes in bullshit must of necessity be either ignorant or illogical or both. Of course, it could also be said that someone who cranks off about "all religion" when they lack knowledge of all there is to know about all of the world's religions is also implicitly either ignorant or illogical or both.

But hey, I don't mean to appear intolerant of intolerance. [:D]

K.



1 In the beginning Man created God;
and in the image of Man
created he him.

2 And Man gave unto God a multitude of
names,that he might be Lord of all
the earth when it was suited to Man

3 And on the seven millionth
day Man rested and did lean
heavily on his God and saw that
it was good.

4 And Man formed Aqualung of
the dust of the ground, and a
host of others likened unto his kind.

5 And these lesser men were cast into the
void; And some were burned, and some were
put apart from their kind.

6 And Man became the God that he had
created and with his miracles did
rule over all the earth.

7 But as all these things
came to pass, the Spirit that did
cause man to create his God
lived on within all men: even
within Aqualung.

8 And man saw it not.

9 But for Christ's sake he'd
better start looking.



Musically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ



truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 5:47:38 PM)

quote:

I'd wager most of them identify as Americans first, Muslims second.


I have had a personal gestalt in that exact regard.

I have a daughter who weighed some 1#9oz at birth. There are few more strongly anti-abortion than I. When 0bama0- a man who twice voted to require doctors and hospitals to starve to death certain newborn infants, some of whom were born in better shape than my own daughter, I went into a period of reflection that was well-nigh a daze. I literally roamed the country in shock for a couple days; and I finally realized my key mistake. (Note: the subject here is not abortion; in this context it is important only as the cause of my visceral disgust (as opposed to mere disappointment) at the election of 0bama0 and the impetus of my introspection)

I had allowed what many philosophers would choose as the three great loyalties in life- God, family, country- to become intertwined almost to the point of synonymousness (word? should be). But they should be distinct, and hierarchical as listed above.

I cut myself some small amount of slack, ultimately, for my confusion. I decided it was relatively easy for a Christian to intertwine God and country.

I do not imagine for a second that such an error is as easy for Muslims to make, or that many of them make it. I'd wager Muslims in Saudia Arabia identify as Muslims first, much less those that happen to be here... Islam is, after all, designed as the purest of theocracies.

In the end, my deliberations were quite liberating. I had always felt that I owed the country. That burden is lifted.

Selah.



kdsub -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 5:50:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

I just remind them I BELIEVE all religion is bullshit. 



You do realize there are many good religious people in this world...and the vast vast vast vast majority have no desire to convert you or preach to you...sooo why do you insist on insulting them by telling them their religion is bullshit?

Does it make you feel big?... Make you think you have power over them? Do you just like to insult people out of hand for kicks? Maybe you think you’re cool. Nope....You are like a little kid at the front of a movie theater spouting cuss words and giggling...Hopefully as you get older you will gain some manners.

Butch



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