RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (Full Version)

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pogo4pres -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 9:21:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I am very content to believe when my ass shuffles off this mortal coil that, that is the end, there is no afterlife for me, in my view, no heaven, no hell. And others are content to believe they will go to heaven, preferably, or to hell. Until one belief or the other is validated with fact, who has the right to tell the other what to believe or not to believe? Where have I said YOU have to believe as I do, I never have. Now that we're into this though I ask all the religious people to RATIONALLY explain this to me: Why on 21 December 1961 did "GOD" allow my then 9 year old sister to die?? According to all I have ever read on the subject, a 9 year old is still pretty much an innocent. "God" is supposed to "loving and kind" right? Is allowing a 9 year old to die sound very loving and kind to you? Did god as I was taught in my teen aged "born again phase" protect the innocent in this case?? Atheistically, Some Knucklehead in NJ

Marini -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 9:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I often don't agree with you, but you hit the nail on the head. You have the RIGHT to have your opinion, and if I feel the need to rant on and on, and literally attempt to berate or beat you over the head trying to make you accept MY opinion, I am not being "tolerant" at all! But of course, I am RIGHT!! I tell you I am right!!!! People have a RIGHT to disagree, period. Most of the most intolerant people in the world, would never see that they are often far from "BEING TOLERANT" when people don't see things their way. IRONY?? I am SO glad you rarely agree with me, in fact if you ever do, please don't be tempted to post in support of my ideas...deal? If nothing else, the voices of "Tolerance" are amusing and sad at the same time. I am not as judgemental as many of the TOLERANT people around here. IF I agree with you, I will certainly say so julia, I might even ^5 you and blow kisses. Get real, I am tolerant like that! One Love and spread the TOLERANCE! PEACE OUT!

kdsub -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 9:27:59 PM)
You're not the only person to loose a love one and have that thought...I have as well...I do feel for you but death validates nothing. I choose to believe her soul and those of my love ones still exist...but I certainly understand the doubt and anger. Ps… not preaching Butch

tazzygirl -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 9:35:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pogo4pres quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I am very content to believe when my ass shuffles off this mortal coil that, that is the end, there is no afterlife for me, in my view, no heaven, no hell. And others are content to believe they will go to heaven, preferably, or to hell. Until one belief or the other is validated with fact, who has the right to tell the other what to believe or not to believe? Where have I said YOU have to believe as I do, I never have. Now that we're into this though I ask all the religious people to RATIONALLY explain this to me: Why on 21 December 1961 did "GOD" allow my then 9 year old sister to die?? According to all I have ever read on the subject, a 9 year old is still pretty much an innocent. "God" is supposed to "loving and kind" right? Is allowing a 9 year old to die sound very loving and kind to you? Did god as I was taught in my teen aged "born again phase" protect the innocent in this case?? Atheistically, Some Knucklehead in NJ Ah so you believe god should step in and take away all the horrors of this world. In the same aspect, why does god allow those suffering in severe pain continue to suffer? Why doesnt he take away the pain? Why does he allow the births of children with severe birth defects? Surely these children have done nothing wrong. Why does child abuse and neglect continue? My neice died at age of 5. Such a pretty thing. So loving. Born with Bejorn's syndrome. Both parents have other children by previous marriages. No problems. Its when their genes mingled that this trait became dominant, both are carriers, but its recessive by itself. Are you suggesting god caused this problem? We loved her while we had the time. We mourned her when we lost her. and we were thankful for every day we had her in our lives. And miss her every day we dont now. Life and death are a daily reality. Without knowing why your sister died, i have no definite answer for you.

Kirata -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 10:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pogo4pres I ask all the religious people to RATIONALLY explain this to me.... What precisely is rational about demanding that someone tell you what was in the mind of another, divine or otherwise? K.

truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 10:04:56 PM)
I'm well aware that you know there is no rational explanation. The existence of pain and evil in a world created by a benevolent God is too great a contradiction to explain rationally. All I can share with you is my belief that your sister is well, and happy, and loved. If you cannot believe that yourself, I hope you can find some measure of wry solace in the fact that some others- certainly not just me- in fact do believe it. If there is one thing in the world that I fear it is the loss of one of my children. I suspect your grief is the manifestation of that fear. I made a semi-smartass crack about saying a prayer for you in anearlier post. I deeply apologize for the tone of that. I hope it doesn't offend you for me to say from the heart that I will say a prayer for your sister.

juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 11:20:33 PM)
quote: Get real, I am tolerant like that! Um.. no your not, but we are all allowed opinions and some of us substitute these for facts

juliaoceania -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/17/2010 11:22:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: pogo4pres I ask all the religious people to RATIONALLY explain this to me.... What precisely is rational about demanding that someone tell you what was in the mind of another, divine or otherwise? K. As if human beings have ever been "rational" in the first place

truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 12:06:49 AM)
You. SERIOUSLY.CANNOT. make this shit up. I'm pretty sure I heard a poll that said Nancy Pelosis approval rating was 2%. Which is, basically, family memebers; and now she's going to peel off a goodly number of those. She's just not quite right. Seriously. She wants to investigate my funding. "I join those who have called for looking into how is this opposition to the mosque being funded,” Meanwhile, the Cook Political Report, one of the most respected political research and analysis outfits in the country, shows on the free portion of its site its five most recent "moves"; the last five races to move from likely R to leans R or whatever. Today for the first time that I have ever seen all five of those moves were to the right.

rulemylife -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 12:27:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella -FR- Okay I'm not responding to anyone in particular, but a lot of people are saying that this is a "slap in the face" to WTC victims. How, exactly? What exactly is so offensive about the presence of American Muslims at Ground Zero? I'd wager most of them identify as Americans first, Muslims second. Pushing them away, isolating them from a larger community, marginalizing them by identifying them with the terrorists rather than with the victims, even though they clearly are among the victims, is wrong. And for those of you who do believe Islam is a "bad" religion, who are unable to see that most Muslims are as intolerant of Osama bin Laden as most Christians are intolerant of Fred Phelps, please try to consider that if these people were intending to do anything bad, the last thing they'd do is build a big community center in the light of day. These are just normal people, normal Americans, they follow a different God but America isn't exactly a Christian nation. Sure, lots of people pay lip service to Christianity, but the fact that Ground Zero can be referred to as "holy ground" or "hallowed ground" or anything like that is proof that this is not a religious country by any stretch of the imagination. Really I've never considered "I'm offended" to hold much weight, no matter who says it, and I think anyone who gets offended that easily would be better served spending their time growing a thicker skin rather than trying to stop people from offending them. You said it very well, but this is just the conservative outrage of the week. This will all be forgotten when O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck and the rest of the conservative talking heads find a new topic to enrage their viewers and boost their ratings.

rulemylife -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 12:35:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Ah so you believe god should step in and take away all the horrors of this world. Yes. If I were God I certainly would do just that. Wouldn't you?

Marini -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 3:21:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Get real, I am tolerant like that! Um.. no your not, but we are all allowed opinions and some of us substitute these for facts And many of us are obvious "hypocrites" and quick to label others, but gosh forbid someone label us. Anyone can find "facts" to back up just about anything they want to say. pot, kettle, black Once you label me, you negate me.

subrob1967 -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 4:06:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella -FR- Okay I'm not responding to anyone in particular, but a lot of people are saying that this is a "slap in the face" to WTC victims. How, exactly? What exactly is so offensive about the presence of American Muslims at Ground Zero? I'd wager most of them identify as Americans first, Muslims second. Pushing them away, isolating them from a larger community, marginalizing them by identifying them with the terrorists rather than with the victims, even though they clearly are among the victims, is wrong. And for those of you who do believe Islam is a "bad" religion, who are unable to see that most Muslims are as intolerant of Osama bin Laden as most Christians are intolerant of Fred Phelps, please try to consider that if these people were intending to do anything bad, the last thing they'd do is build a big community center in the light of day. These are just normal people, normal Americans, they follow a different God but America isn't exactly a Christian nation. Sure, lots of people pay lip service to Christianity, but the fact that Ground Zero can be referred to as "holy ground" or "hallowed ground" or anything like that is proof that this is not a religious country by any stretch of the imagination. Really I've never considered "I'm offended" to hold much weight, no matter who says it, and I think anyone who gets offended that easily would be better served spending their time growing a thicker skin rather than trying to stop people from offending them. Maybe the words of the Imam himself?

GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 5:14:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I wonder at people who need to belittle others beliefs in comparison to their own. It says to me that they are not firm enough in their own ideas so they have to negate the way other people think... Just an opinion Or maybe they just fed up with having the beliefs of those other people shoved in their face all the time.

Moonhead -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 5:38:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave I do not imagine for a second that such an error is as easy for Muslims to make, or that many of them make it. I'd wager Muslims in Saudia Arabia identify as Muslims first, much less those that happen to be here... Islam is, after all, designed as the purest of theocracies. Islam was barely designed in the first place. That's why there's all of that sectarian rowing going on. Here's a posit for you: what happens once Israel gets wiped off the map? One big theocracy or genocidal war between the various factions? Israel is the only reason that Qatar and Dubai still exist at this point.

GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 5:48:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pogo4pres In the long run in 100,000 years when the sun has gone nova and fried off all the life, and earth is just an empty frozen ice ball hurtling through space, will anyone's including my belief have mattered???? Not that this is anything but completely off topic but the accuracy of facts is important to me. Your idea of how long the sun will last is significantly off, you're painting an unreasonably grim picture.

GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 6:06:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl who has the right to tell the other what to believe or not to believe? Everyone, that's what the Constitution guarantees.

Sanity -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 6:12:22 AM)
You must run with a rough crowd. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania As if human beings have ever been "rational" in the first place

GambitLeBeau -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 6:15:13 AM)
Obama has said what he had to say. Of course this has been an excuse for right wingers to rabble up more ill feeling towards him from idiots and paranoid fundamentalist Christians. As for whether it's appropriate, that's a matter for debate, but there's no way or reason that anyone should step in to stop the private building of a religious building. The God debate, on the other hand is a tough one. The problem a lot of atheists have is that a reasonable amount of those who follow Abrahamic religions are very quick to thank and blame God for everything good that happens in their lives, but utterly absolve him and blame free will when something bad happens. Some people see that double standard and they will think less of you. If God exists, he obviously couldn't give a damn about any individual person- OR he's an inhumane bastard to the point of not caring for humanity. Yes, maybe he does sit back and judge and wait. If so, there's nothing to thank him for. Or any reason to 'love' him. Agnostically, Luke.

Elisabella -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 7:21:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Maybe the words of the Imam himself? That blog gave a lot of quotes, which in particular did you find to be offensive to families of WTC victims?

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