Safewords- what are they to you? (Full Version)

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slaveofdarkhold -> Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:24:21 AM)

I'm not asking for a general explanation of what a safeword is for here, rather a discussion on the different roles they have for different people. In the last few days I've spoken to a number of people about this, and some of the things they have said have interested me, while others have disturbed me, so I thought it would be good to open the floor and see what people think of the concept of safewords.

I'll give some background information to make myself clearer.
I'm in a 24/7 Master/slave relationship and so the way I view safewords will most likely be different from a person who is only into short 'play' scenes. In my relationship, a safeword is not used to say 'I don't like this' or 'I don't want to do that'- as a slave I am expected to submit to my Master's will even if I don't like what he is asking. If I ask respectfully I will always get the chance to voice my concerns but ultimately the decision is not mine to make. Instead the safeword means 'I am in danger, stop'. For example, I may use it if my bonds had become twisted and were cutting off my circulation, or if my breathing was becoming restricted. Occassionally, in extreme circumstances I may use the safeword for something I think would damage me psychologically, though I never have. I think this would be more relevant if I had a history of sexual abuse or similar, in which case something in  a scene could accidentally trigger an unexpected emotional response. This doesn't apply to me, so the only situation where I may have to use a safeword for reasons other than physical danger would probably be if he did something which violated the whole basis of our relationship and it's limits (eg. if he tried to involve a child in a scene, to use an extreme example).
If a safeword is used, everything stops immediately and my Master does whatever is necessary to get me out of danger. We would then talk this through and find out what went wrong. A safeword is never taken lightly as it generally means something serious has happened to cause a problem. Equally there is no shame on me for using a safeword- there is no expectation for me not to use it to prove how submissive I am and in fact it is very important that I do not hesitate to use it when needed. In the same way I would never use the safeword lightly or when I didn't feel it totally necessary.

I have heard many people say that they do not allow their submissive a safeword during a punishment. I can understand the reasoning behind this- a punishment is designed to punish, the sub should not be in control and it should be unpleasant. Also the punishment is 'earned' by the submissive's behavior and as such they have forfeited their right to use a safeword. This however alarms me slightly, as what would happen if the circumstances suddenly changed? What if the sub were to have a panic attack/heart attack/allergic reaction or any number of other things requiring immediate help, and the dom wouldnt allow them to stop and explain that they needed help? It can be argued of course that it is the job of the dominant partner to be aware of dangers and make a judgement call but it seems to be a simple mistake could result in all sorts of damage being done. My safeword is still valid during any punishment for this reason, although it has always been made clear that it isn't a get out clause. If I needed to safeword, the punishment would be stopped and any problem would be solved. I would then be expected to resume my punishment, though he may change the nature of it if it seemed necessary.

Understandably, different relationships have their own dynamic and so their own interpretation of a safeword. If I was playing more casually with a partner then it might be  acceptable to use a safeword if I simply did not like something I was being asked. Also if the participants have not played together many times before they may be less aware of each other's emotions and less able to judge the scene.

So with all that in mind, these are the general points I'd like people to consider
- What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?
- Is it ever ok to not have a safeword? Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?
- Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?
-Is the safeword effective? Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it?
- (To the subs) Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword? Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did?

Sorry for an extremely long post. Just looking to open up an intelligent discussion on a concept which is often thrown around and taken for granted in places like this. Thoughts from anyone are very welcome, and don't feel you have to answer all of my many questions!

jen



unquenchable -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:37:05 AM)

So with all that in mind, these are the general points I'd like people to consider
- What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?
 
A safeword is used when something has gone wrong, not when something is just not liked.

- Is it ever ok to not have a safeword? Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?
 
i believe the need for a safeword diminishes in a LTR.  i have never been physically punished so i cannot answer in regards to that.

- Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?
 
yes, in my experience it stops the scene, a discussion commerces, and it was the end of the night! 
i have had a single safeword, and a safe gesture in case i was gagged.

-Is the safeword effective? Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it?
 
yes, it has always been effective, yet only used twice. 

- (To the subs) Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword? Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did?
 
No, i have never been to embarassed to use my safeword.  If a Dom ever pressured me not to use it, it would be my last scene with that Dom. 

And i hate that term "REAL" so will leave that be.

unquenchable





Tikkiee -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:37:32 AM)

quote:

- What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?

Not only a hard and fast rule, but also one that is enforced with anyone that I play with, including Chris.
quote:

  - Is it ever ok to not have a safeword? Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?

Personally, I don't think it's ever ok to not have a safeword; but that is just my own personal opinion. As to the punishment part; since I am not a submissive/slave, Chris and I do not participate in punishment ( as defined by those who are in a D/s, M/s relationship ). If one of us does something that upsets the other; we talk about it.
quote:

  - Does a safeword automatically stop a scene?

ABSOLUTLY
quote:

  Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction?

No. If I safeword during a scene, Chris knows that something is wrong. It stops right there. More often than not though, if I safeword during a scene, it's because something is crowding my mind and I just can not get into the proper mind space.
There are other times that Chris will stop a scene on his own simply because he picked up on some body reaction that I made.
quote:

  Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?

Only one. And it has only one meaning. STOP.
quote:

  - (To the subs) Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword?

Never. A safeword is used for a reason; it generally means that something is wrong ( in my own use that is ).
quote:

  Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did?

Never has Chris, or any other play partner that I have been with, ever done that to me. If they did, they would not be playing with me again. If Chris did, he would be on the receiving end of one major temper storm. [:)]



heartfeltsub -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:49:09 AM)

Hello jen,

Even though i am not currently collared, and i play with a number of different Tops and Doms, to me a safe word is for emotional or physical safety. i have used one once when first playing with a particular Dom who was a sadist when i couldn't take any more on a particular body part. W/we have since been working to increase my pain tolerance. That being said, i have a submissive friend of mine who is in a collar relationship that when her Master is trying a new technique or something, gives her a safe word for those scenes. It invariably makes her think it is going to be too hard and it scares her. So she has asked to not have one during those times. i know many long-time M/s couples who do not use a safe word at all, and many slaves who feel to have one is a sign of taking control back from their Masters, so they do not want one. Most people i have talked with about safewords say that it depends on the partner the length of time playing together etc. And to answer your last question, i have met some "players" who say using a safe word makes me a not real sub, and once they have waved that huge flapping red flag, i wouldn't want to play with them anyway. i have not however met any one real in the lifestyle who has made such a comment.



slaveofdarkhold -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 6:03:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

i know many long-time M/s couples who do not use a safe word at all, and many slaves who feel to have one is a sign of taking control back from their Masters, so they do not want one.


This is definately one of the points of view that I am curious about. While I can totally understand not wanting to take control away from the Master, it worries me in this situation that an unexpected emergency could take place and the Master may not pick up on it in time. I sympathise with this point of view because I certainly don't want to feel like I am taking away any of His control,but I think it is important for the peace of mind for both of us to know we have something in place just in case the worst happens.



Rayne58 -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 6:04:52 AM)

I have two safewords - "yellow" for "I am almost at my limit" and "red" for "STOP NOW". In the beginning I was reluctant to use them, purely for the reason that I didn't want to disappoint Him. A talk between us soon stopped that and even over two years later the words are still in place if needed.

I have used them to stop a scene when my mind and body have been overwhelmed with sensation/pain and I became scared, not of Him but of my own feelings. I came out of an extremely vanilla marriage not knowing very much about "good" sex let alone BDSM. Everything was all so new and exciting yet frightening too[&o] Things are much better now and through a lot of discussion with Master I am now much more comfortable with giving up the control of my body and mind to Him - I can't remember when I last safeworded. He is as concerned with my emotional safety as much as the physical[:)]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 6:17:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofdarkhold
- What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?

I think safewords can be useful in severe role play scenes (like forced rape and such) otherwise, not really.  If I'm playing with a partner who wants one AND I believe they will be responsible for using it, then I'll be ok with that.  But I don't use that as my sole "stop/go" measure.

quote:

- Is it ever ok to not have a safeword?

Sure, I've never had one or asked for one. 
quote:


Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?

Depends on why you use a safeword.  For me a simple "somethings wrong" works just fine, no need for a safeword there.

It depends on whether a person uses a safeword to mean "This is getting too intense and I REALLY want it to stop" or to mean "Somethings really wrong and we need to fix it NOW."  It gets used in both ways in the scene so you need to figure out which way it's being used and go from there.

quote:

Does a safeword automatically stop a scene?

It automatically stops the scene at least for a moment until the problem is addressed.

quote:

Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction?

Yes.

quote:

 Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?

LOL I do with my local partner but they aren't "safewords" so much as "an inside joke about safewords."  We have 6 different color codes which we're always forgetting and half the time using wrong.  But since we KNOW that, we don't take it seriously.  Whatever happen to just saying "Good" or "OK"?

quote:

-Is the safeword effective?

IF everyone involved:
a) agrees to its meaning
b) agrees to its usage
c) claims self responsibility for agreeing to its usage
d) uses it appropriately
e) follows up with it appropriately

If any of those are missing, then your safeword becomes a hazard more than anything.

quote:

Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it?

Sure it's happened to me.  I could have cared less that my circulation was cut off in my leg. 

quote:

- (To the subs) Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword?

Sadly many do, thus rendering the safeword concept completely useless and putting those in the scene into an unnecessarily risky situation, not to mention the sub now failing in the responsibilty they agreed to.

quote:

Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did?

Sadly many will do this. 

As a final addition- a safeword should NOT be some bastion or grand symbol either.  It's not a stripe of honor of how much you REALLY TRUST someone, it's not a medal of how DEEP your relationship has become.  It's just a word that communicates an idea.  If you take your safeword and turn it into something other than that, then you are misusing it.

I don't use them, I use normal communication.  I'm not cooler because of it. 



babyblues -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 6:47:24 AM)

we do not use a safeword....after 20 years together, he knows me better than i know myself



tangldupinblue -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 7:07:13 AM)

i have more of a warning word, it's "pain" and i know that may sound weird to alot of people, but in my mind there is a big difference between being hurting and pain. it can mean a variety of different things, my binds are to tight and about to cause damage, or if i'm about to drop. but the use of it does not ever mean that things will stop, he will see what my objection is and if he see fit he will either fix it or leave me just the way i am.its a matter of trust, of allowing him to decide if its really a big deal or if i'm more senstive to it because of my current state.

i have been in the life for more then 20 years with many different partners but have only used it once.

blue



ladydianna63 -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 7:19:12 AM)

I am a dom and safe words to me mean that the type of object i am using at the time is too much or i am using it too hard... my slave only uses the safe word when i have put too much pain in an area so i change my method of pain-giving and move to a different area to give that a chance to relax then i commence to deliver pain somewhere else... my slave and i have been together for over 6 years and he is used to my methods and he is confident i will use them carefully and sensibly... he sometimes does things to get punished and sometimes i dont listen to his safe word if hes been too bad....
and he knows this... i just ease up but i continue...
so i think a safe word is just a method of the slave/sub 's way of telling "thats a little much there at that spot... move somewhere else"  unless it is mutually agreed before hand... with new subs, i am more carefull if i dont know their limits but i learn quick...[;)]
Lady Di



thetammyjo -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 7:28:31 AM)

Safewords to me are information.

I have my partners use them in a variety of ways -- things are good, things are pushing me, and things are dangerous stop.

I am not my partner and therefore I cannot possibly know what is happening in his head or his body at all times. As my slave he must give me information but sometimes that can be difficult because it conflicts with his idea of what a good slave does. I have found having a stopword gives him the ability to give me information and not trigger his "bad slave" ideas.

Of course my current slave hasn't seriously used his stopword in years because we know each other pretty well and rarely push things too hard.

He mostly uses it when we are watching tv or a movie and we see some interaction -- its his shorthand way of saying "ick" to what he sees. I've also heard him use it in conversations with strangers where they are pushing his buttons and he's trying to tell them to be back off without being what he preceives as rude. (Personally I'd probably say something unladylike myself)



Proprietrix -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 7:44:07 AM)

For me, safe words are flexible depending on the situation.
Overall, I think plain communication is better than any safe word "The restraints are cutting off circulation" informs me a hell of a lot more about what's going on than "red".
But there are also situations in which that's not possible. First and foremost, when a sub is gagged and needs to use a safe signal instead.

quote:

 What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword?

Although it really depends, in general, for me, a safeword is serves to say "This scene has to stop right now". And that doesn't necessarily mean "I'm in danger." It could mean "The school bus just pulled up and the kids are home."

quote:

Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?

             It depends on the partner and the situation. Needing to "red" has a hell of a different meaning to a non-masochist, newbie, this is my 3rd scene ever, submissive, than it does to a 20+ year long standing M/s relationship, edgeplaying slave. A new sub might need to red simply because they don't understand what their body is telling them. They might be feeling really confused.  To me, it's perfectly fine to stop and talk about those feelings of confusion, and take the opportunity to learn. What's going on inside a newbie's head during a scene is much more important to me than the actual scene itself.
              On the other end of the spectrum, many longstanding edgeplayers neither use, nor want, a safeword. The danger and risk might be an inherent part of the game.

quote:

- Is it ever ok to not have a safeword?

Sure. There are lots of different situations. But I will always stand by that there has to be some kind of communication open. Especially if the sub is gagged. I think it would be irresponsible of any Dom/Top to totally cut off every line of ommunication and stand there flogging someone who might be having a heart attack.

quote:

Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?

I don't generally allow it, but like I keep saying, there has to be some kind of communication. If I am punishing a sub and say no safe words, they know that they aren't getting out of this. It's going to happen, and it's not going to be fun. That doesn't mean though that I'm going to ignore them if they say "I'm having precursors to a seizure." If I am punishing someone without a safeword, I generally don't gag them.
But... since I tend to play more with masochists, I rarely use corporal punishment anyway. It's usually more task oriented.

quote:

- Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?

I use both yellow and red. yellow means "Stop a minute. I need to recoup, catch my breath, internalize, etc..." Red automatically stops a scene dead in its tracks.

quote:

-Is the safeword effective? Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it?

I think this is why (as others have stated) it's important to know your partner. IMO, once a sub hits subspace, there's very little reason to continue inducing pain on them. Even a Sadist gets no joy out of whipping a wet mop.

Good questions jen, and you did a wonderful job of starting an actual discussion.



Jasmyn -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 9:11:44 AM)

So with all that in mind, these are the general points I'd like people to consider

quote:

- What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?


In my opinion the safeword has very little to do with power or control, but is merely a tool of communication and should be seen as nothing more and nothing less.   Am glad to read that this philosophy is indeed held by others.

One of the things I believe people need to understand when considering safewords, especially newbie uba doms & subs, is the origin for having one was based in S&M, B&D, Bedroom Bondage and Roleplay, not D/s or TPE or M/s.  The safeword and subsequent honouring of a safeword uttered is what enabled every scene to be 'consensual' and this image/philosophy did much to advance bondage, sm, discipline and roleplay as a legitimate adult alternative to 'vanilla' relationships/love.  

There was a suggestion the 'word' should be unrelated to the 'scene' itself ... hence people used words like "tadpole" or "blueberry" to indicate enough or danger danger will robinson.  Some were happy to just use 'safeword' as their word.  Words like 'no' or 'stop' were deemed unsuitable especially as they would more than likely crop up in a scene's dialogue, ie "no Mistress, please no don't" or "oh god please stop I'm going to cum!".  The green, orange, red system was popular too.  I quite like using a number system, in terms of pain &/or endurance, on a scale of 1 - 10 where does the person think they are at?  

But the attributing of 'safewords' with 'control' and 'controlling of scenes' the old 'who really has control' debate couldn't help but be applied to the use of them when discussing dominance and submission.  If I'm wanting a sub to safeword and that is the goal, then they're hardly 'in control' if they utter one.

Taking into account the degree of SM and the psychological nature of any given scene I personally prefer the use of a 'safeword' (in the context of letting me know how the sub is faring) to be scene related ie: if I was caning someone or administering cock & ball torture, nipple torture, etc, and it was getting all a bit to much, 'mercy Mistress' is all I need to hear to make me take it back a notch.   If the sub wishes to be taken to a point where he wants me to disregard his pleas, been able to say 'mercy Mistress mercy' allows him to stay 'in scene space' but also communicate where he is at.  I will then gauge how much further I can safely push him beyond this point that gives him not only a sense of release and struggle, but a sense of endurance and accomplishment.

All other discomfort/concerns need to be communicated directly so I can act directly.  Telling all those I play with if I am caning you or doing whatever 'in scene' and you are struggling say mercy, for everything else just tell me.  If you are feeling faint or feel like throwing up, a cuff is pinching, or the candle behind me has just set the curtain on fire, I need to know instantly.

quote:

- Is it ever ok to not have a safeword?
 

If people are employing the philosophy above that anything non scene related is easy enough to say 'hey the candle's just set the curtain on fire' or 'stop, I've had enough' ... then yes it is entirely ok to not have a safeword.  

quote:

Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?


Back to my 'mercy' philosophy, then can utter it, but there are no gaurrantees it will be a blanket get out of jail free card.  However all other discomforts/concerns should be communicated freely.  

To clarify, I don't see punishment as been about causing 'pain' or 'discomfort', ie that will be 100 lashes of the cat o nine tails ...but about the infraction and focusing on that, the 'punishment' itself secondary, or a tool to help them attone and a simple six of the best is all that is required. 

quote:

- Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?

-Is the safeword effective? Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it?


Is the safeword effective?  It can be if the safeword is given a context to be used in, ie I've reached my limit/endurance and I need to let you know...or SM flesh hook suspension, 'word' means take me down now!  

But as a blanket notion it's a scene ender, I think it is a dangerous for a dom/top to rely only on this as method of judging whether or not to end a scene.  Just as I think 'give me more, harder, harder' is not a blanket green light to go harder without thought to consequences...

Nothing beats old fashion observation and awareness. 



broadline -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 10:16:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofdarkhold

So with all that in mind, these are the general points I'd like people to consider
- What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation?


Everything is variable, I think--a safeword, to me, is just a way of getting attention, of saying, "wait a second!" Saying "stop!" or "no, don't do that to me!" can be part of play, not serious, but sometimes those needs and concerns really do need to be addressed, and a safeword is like an html tag or quotation mark to indicate when those "real" needs arise.

quote:

- Is it ever ok to not have a safeword? Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment?


I wouldn't play with someone who didn't have/want a safeword or didn't want me to have one/didn't listen when I used one. I think it's inadvisable, but it's not my job to tell people how to play.
 
I do think bottoms should be able to safeword during punishments, though I've never been punished myself. However, like most other people who've replied, I don't think a safeword should be used as a get-out-of-jail-free card.

quote:

- Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things?


We use "red" and "yellow." "Red" stops a scene, commences aftercare. "Yellow" indicates lots of things, lol. I need a break/water/check in; stop hitting there; ease up; I don't like that toy at all, seriously. But "yellow" stuff, other than needing water or a check in, that's just suggestions, just letting him know what's going on at my end.

quote:

-Is the safeword effective?


As a concept? More effective than not having anything at all, imho. Is mine effective for me in my relationship? Absolutely.

quote:

Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it?


I've been that sub, hee. However, in my case, it was due to the fact that I didn't yellow earlier in the scene. I do know of other subs that go down/have gone down in certain situations so fast they don't have a chance to safeword. I'm glad I'm not one of them, I don't know what I'd do.
 
Lately, I've been getting quite--upset, even angry, during play, and last time we played, I was so worked up I shouted "stop it!" when I meant "yellow," which is embarrassing and strange. Fortunately, my dom knows me well enough to know that I was serious, and he was cautious enough to interpret my outburst as "red," but man. It was so weird.

quote:

- (To the subs) Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword? Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did?


The one time we've played at a private party, at the home of some quite close friends, I was embarrassed to safeword in front of them, which is ridiculous, but still. I learned my lesson. I was close to broken by the time my dom checked in, almost non-verbal, and it was really really scary o.O
 
In conclusion, I am in favour of safewords, I support their use, but to me--they're not a method of controlling the scene for a submissive, they're a method of communication.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 11:43:11 AM)

No safeword here.



kittensmailbox -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 11:47:59 AM)

no safe words???   I do not care how long a person has been in the life style, SAFTY comes first...



dvdmtz1234 -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 11:48:59 AM)

safewords suck. having safewords allows a sub to top from the bottom. if i'm somebody's property, they should do whatever they want. if i can stop it, then they dont really have the control after all and i would feel cheated. i would limit safewords to life and death kinds of things, like hey, do you know i can't breathe? (of course if she does know and continues, then too bad...)



ownedgirlie -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 12:03:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

no safe words???  Are you in sane or just stupid???  I do not care how long a person has been in the life style, SAFTY comes first...


i am not going to bother giving a valid answer to such an insulting question.




kittensmailbox -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 12:06:42 PM)

Then dont... you answerd my question with the lil words you said...



kittensmailbox -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 12:13:32 PM)

i do appologize that my words did not come out very lady like... i did not mean to flame or hurt anyones feelings...



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