RE: Safewords- what are they to you?

RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (Full Version)

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Tikkiee -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 4:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dvdmtz1234 safewords suck. having safewords allows a sub to top from the bottom. if i'm somebody's property, they should do whatever they want. if i can stop it, then they dont really have the control after all and i would feel cheated. i would limit safewords to life and death kinds of things, like hey, do you know i can't breathe? (of course if she does know and continues, then too bad...) I shall refrain from voicing my opinion on the drabble that is printed above.

MichMasochist -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 4:40:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef Safewords are a placebo, nothing more. They make people feel somehow safer than they would be without them. There is nothing that you can accomplish with a safeword that can't be accomplished with normal, everyday language and communication. You can still cry, scream, beg without things coming to a stop and strangely enough, if you yell "FUCK, I THINK I JUST DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER!", things will come to a stop just as fast and with much more clarity and useful information than yelling "RED" or "PUMPERNICKLE" or whatever. But hey, if it makes you feel better to use them, knock yourself out. ~stef Yes you are right. However I think the safe word was most likely started by kinkster who wanted more intense, brutal, play. Painpigs come to mind. Thus the sadistic mistress could ruthlessly punish her slave making him/her cry, squeel, and beg for mercy. Stopping only when she wanted, unless the slave safe worded because of a situation as you have stated. Or maybe it was some early attempt to be politically correct in kink.

AAkasha -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 4:48:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster A safeword is a fine manifestation of SSC bullshit. Well, I have a pretty nonstandard view of safewords. There are practical uses for safewords when couples are roleplaying make believe scenes where there is an illusion of lack of consent. But people in the "scene" take themselves very seriously and would never admit to something as silly and non edgy as "roleplay." Safewords are good for when someone might be protesting and have to differentiate when they really do mean it. To me -- that's it. Other than that, nothing is more critical than: 1) Good old fashion communication ("my leg is going numb," or "I feel like I might faint,") 2) Knowing your partner at a level where you both trust your judgement skills However, safewords get attached to BDSM and are sort of like a card-carrying thing. You can create a lot of drama about safewords, and niche communities like drama. There's controversy, there's bragging rights, there's the "I should have safeworded but I didn't want to let my top down..." there's "I know all da rules! I only play with safewords!! I am dominant certified, I am SSC! Who cares that my only experience is online, I use safewords!" In some situations safewords serve a good purpose. However, I think a lot of couples would be safer to rely on talking to each other before, during and after and not get caught up in having to do it "the bdsm community way." Anything that hampers or deters the communication of two people about their fears, pains, emotional stress or reactions to me is a bad thing. Anything that creates a crutch or false sense of security is a bad thing. Anything that becomes "more important" than the people involved (ie, using "safewords" to attain a sense of ego/pride or belonging or to feel like a big shot) is dangerous. There are cases where safewords or safe signals are absolutely critical -- that is when two people cannot communicate with one another. But anyone who talks about "being too spaced out to communicate verbally" so they have to resort to codes? Please. If you are that spaced out you need a lot more than a code word to keep you safe -- you need a competent dominant who knows what the hell he/she is doing WITHOUT words in code, because you can't be trusted to remember what color is what. I would guess there are more screwed up/bad ending scenes because of safeword drama than those involving couples who communicate straightforward. Safewords in BDSM to me seems almost like "learning to speak Klingon" at star trek conventions. The ubergeeks who want status in a huge way have to wave it like their flag and don't even consider that simple communication often acheives a much greater level of understanding and is safer. Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 4:54:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MichMasochist quote: ORIGINAL: stef Safewords are a placebo, nothing more. They make people feel somehow safer than they would be without them. There is nothing that you can accomplish with a safeword that can't be accomplished with normal, everyday language and communication. You can still cry, scream, beg without things coming to a stop and strangely enough, if you yell "FUCK, I THINK I JUST DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER!", things will come to a stop just as fast and with much more clarity and useful information than yelling "RED" or "PUMPERNICKLE" or whatever. But hey, if it makes you feel better to use them, knock yourself out. ~stef Yes you are right. However I think the safe word was most likely started by kinkster who wanted more intense, brutal, play. Painpigs come to mind. Thus the sadistic mistress could ruthlessly punish her slave making him/her cry, squeel, and beg for mercy. Stopping only when she wanted, unless the slave safe worded because of a situation as you have stated. Or maybe it was some early attempt to be politically correct in kink. No one "invented" safewords. 200 years ago in a random country in Europe when a couple was experimenting with rough sex and play rape or bondage, they agreed maybe it would be a good idea if they had a code so that the dominant person would know when the submissive person was serious about wanting them to stop. It was probably happening simultaneously in places all over the world long before that. As long as couples have been fucking, people have been dabbling in power related exchanges. No one invented BDSM and then decided to add a protocol called "safewords" and then sent out a press release announcing its use and rules. Saying that safewords were "invented" is like saying S&M was invented and marketed through word of mouth. People have been coming up with ways to make rough sex/fake non consensual play "safe" for as long as they've been doing it -- if they were consenting and wanted to make sure no one got hurt. Long before I read anything about S&M and what it was, I was tying up my boyfriend. I had a code word to give him to tell me if he was really serious about wanting to be let go, because I liked it when he begged and demanded that I release him. There are people practicing power exchange in places with no Internet and no access to information. I'm sure many of them use safewords, but they don't know that the term exists. Akasha

MichMasochist -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:18:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yay, let's get the BDSM police! quote: ORIGINAL: MichMasochist Never been pressured to not use. Coresponded with a woman, or supposed woman, who said she doesn't play with anyone who wants a safeword. Never replied to that letter. If your dominate partner is telling you this, run, don't walk, run fast, run far, and spread the word. Let us know or let someone know. Maybe that should be call the police ? Let's get real that it's simply wrong to push an unwilling partner beyond their hard limits. Period, no debate no question.

MichMasochist -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:22:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: MichMasochist quote: ORIGINAL: stef Safewords are a placebo, nothing more. They make people feel somehow safer than they would be without them. There is nothing that you can accomplish with a safeword that can't be accomplished with normal, everyday language and communication. You can still cry, scream, beg without things coming to a stop and strangely enough, if you yell "FUCK, I THINK I JUST DISLOCATED MY SHOULDER!", things will come to a stop just as fast and with much more clarity and useful information than yelling "RED" or "PUMPERNICKLE" or whatever. But hey, if it makes you feel better to use them, knock yourself out. ~stef Yes you are right. However I think the safe word was most likely started by kinkster who wanted more intense, brutal, play. Painpigs come to mind. Thus the sadistic mistress could ruthlessly punish her slave making him/her cry, squeel, and beg for mercy. Stopping only when she wanted, unless the slave safe worded because of a situation as you have stated. Or maybe it was some early attempt to be politically correct in kink. No one "invented" safewords. 200 years ago in a random country in Europe when a couple was experimenting with rough sex and play rape or bondage, they agreed maybe it would be a good idea if they had a code so that the dominant person would know when the submissive person was serious about wanting them to stop. It was probably happening simultaneously in places all over the world long before that. As long as couples have been fucking, people have been dabbling in power related exchanges. No one invented BDSM and then decided to add a protocol called "safewords" and then sent out a press release announcing its use and rules. Saying that safewords were "invented" is like saying S&M was invented and marketed through word of mouth. People have been coming up with ways to make rough sex/fake non consensual play "safe" for as long as they've been doing it -- if they were consenting and wanted to make sure no one got hurt. Long before I read anything about S&M and what it was, I was tying up my boyfriend. I had a code word to give him to tell me if he was really serious about wanting to be let go, because I liked it when he begged and demanded that I release him. There are people practicing power exchange in places with no Internet and no access to information. I'm sure many of them use safewords, but they don't know that the term exists. Akasha [:D] During play mistress doesn't hafta wonder does he really mean "stop", or "no". She can kick back, relax and get into having her share of the fun and not worry about going too far.

perverseangelic -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:45:50 PM)
I've talked about my view of safewords before. I don't use 'em, really, and haven't used 'em in past relationships. When my Owner and I first started getting invovled in "harder" bdsm, safewords were -really- helpful to us. They were helpful because they helped my Owner know that it was OK to hit me that hard, and that I wasn't really hurt. For us, they served the purpose of helping him get over the idea that it isn't ok to hit somebody. Even though -I- knew that he wasn't going to do something to me that would do serious damage, having a safeword allowed -him- to accept it too. That is, because he knew I had a magic word that he could hear and stop, he was able to understand that writhing and muttering and even crying -doesn't- mean STOP. Even if it looks like it means stop. That said, I -hate- how safewords are teh panacea of the BDSM community. I hate how people make them a big deal, either the having of or the not having of. It's a tool of communication. If it works to help the owner and the owned, or the beator and the beat-y communicate, then it's a good thing. If it gets in the way of effective communication, or takes the place of actually letting one's partner know what is going on, then it's a bad thing. I tend to stear clear of anyone who makes a big deal about safewords on -either- side, pro or con. I'd rather play with someone that's willing to talk about what kinds of communication work best, then go from there.

ladylexington -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 5:47:06 PM)
Safe words are just like SSC -- any easy way to teach the basics of BDSM play. They serve a vital role in this regard. They are no substitute for good communication, judgment, and keen observation. But, I'd encourage anyone learning about BDSM to use them until they learn the skills and practices that safe words represent.

ScooterTrash -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 6:21:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ladylexington Safe words are just like SSC -- any easy way to teach the basics of BDSM play. They serve a vital role in this regard. They are no substitute for good communication, judgment, and keen observation. But, I'd encourage anyone learning about BDSM to use them until they learn the skills and practices that safe words represent. Very well put!

VvShadowspawnvV -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 6:59:31 PM)
quote: Safewords in BDSM to me seems almost like "learning to speak Klingon" at star trek conventions. The ubergeeks who want status in a huge way have to wave it like their flag and don't even consider that simple communication often acheives a much greater level of understanding and is safer. Akasha AAkasha, i enjoy reading your posts. =) majQa' ! becca

CanadianGuy -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 7:51:43 PM)
My girl has a hard limit called "no safe words". She doesn't refuse, but she has pleaded to not have one with me, because I know her very very well, and she doesn't want to have any control. I've been mocked for allowing that, but so be it. We have no safe word. If something goes wrong, I'll know about it.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 8:31:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u Not even sure who i'm laughing at. The Dom that is dumb enough to expect no safe word.... or the sub/slave dumb enough to except this from the get go. But to each their own I guess. Then laugh at us both, babe quote: Owned... still waiting on an answer from you about your Master.... [:D][:D][;)][;)] Answer? i must have missed the question....?

WyrdRich -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 9:22:54 PM)
Our formal safeword is "cramp." It started out as one of my bad jokes and we decided we liked it. It serves its purpose but I know damn well she isn't going to use it once the endorphins are kicking. Keeping things in hand and not doing any damage is purely on me. I'm still working on that perfect balance of getting feedback from her without messing up the mindspace.

BitaTruble -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 11:30:21 PM)
I'm a proponent of having a safeword for myself because I'm 'very' verbal and the stuff that spews out of my mouth can make it appear as if he's killing me. We don't use colors or numbers.. just a word that would never be said in scene that points to something dire going on. Because he reads me so well, I've never had to use it, but it sits there, collecting dust as it were, ready to be invoked if and when it's necessary. It's short, sweet, easy to remember and will immediately stop all action so that whatever dire emergency arises can be addressed. I understand that I have the option of yelling out a sentence to explain more completely what's happening, but I truly believe that seconds can be the difference between life and death or injury and it would take me longer to yell out a sentence which may or may not stop the action immediately because he may or may not know if I'm just doing my normal spewing or if I'm really in trouble. If I yell out.. Muther fucker, yer breaking my arm.. he may just say 'too bad'and a second later, my arm snaps because I actually meant.. Hey Mutherfucker, yer breaking my arm. I yell out that safeword instead, he stops all action immediately, the arm doesn't break and we go on our merry way. To each their own. Play with safewords or don't.. it's a matter of personal choice. To me, it's just an extra tool in the arsenal of communication. No more, no less but as a heavy S/m player who rarely shuts her mouth, it's probably best it's in place for me. ::chuckles:: Celeste

Reasonable -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/20/2006 11:42:25 PM)
Safewords are a hit and miss stop-gap. Nothing more. And certainly no substitute for having experience with a person who should be able to trust you to know what's going on,within reason. Physical and mental states can be very dicey-communication can easily break down when you mess with mind states and body chemistry. The hard and fast answer,is there is no hard and fast answer-you play,you pay. I try to avoid assuming,and it's one reason that casual play makes me VERY uneasy. (One of my most hated comments I have heard after a scene is "oh,by the way.....") It can shake a Top's self confidence a bit when they think the bottom is enjoying something,during,only to find out after the fact................ I guess what we really need to think of is not just how the other person is feeling,but how WE are going to feel if we really mess up-and it goes BOTH ways,people. But then again,if we were all sociopaths,we wouldn't even have the CONCEPT of safe words,would we?[8D]

truesub4u -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 3:27:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u Not even sure who i'm laughing at. The Dom that is dumb enough to expect no safe word.... or the sub/slave dumb enough to except this from the get go. But to each their own I guess. Then laugh at us both, babe quote: Owned... still waiting on an answer from you about your Master.... [:D][:D][;)][;)] Answer? i must have missed the question....? Owned... I know you and yours don't have one... but you're relationship is as i stated before that quote.... not totally brand new. There's a difference. (Now you know what I ment about quotes being torn apart.) GO back and read the begining again.... LOL

truesub4u -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 3:32:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I'm a proponent of having a safeword for myself because I'm 'very' verbal and the stuff that spews out of my mouth can make it appear as if he's killing me. We don't use colors or numbers.. just a word that would never be said in scene that points to something dire going on. Because he reads me so well, I've never had to use it, but it sits there, collecting dust as it were, ready to be invoked if and when it's necessary. It's short, sweet, easy to remember and will immediately stop all action so that whatever dire emergency arises can be addressed. I understand that I have the option of yelling out a sentence to explain more completely what's happening, but I truly believe that seconds can be the difference between life and death or injury and it would take me longer to yell out a sentence which may or may not stop the action immediately because he may or may not know if I'm just doing my normal spewing or if I'm really in trouble. If I yell out.. Muther fucker, yer breaking my arm.. he may just say 'too bad'and a second later, my arm snaps because I actually meant.. Hey Mutherfucker, yer breaking my arm. I yell out that safeword instead, he stops all action immediately, the arm doesn't break and we go on our merry way. To each their own. Play with safewords or don't.. it's a matter of personal choice. To me, it's just an extra tool in the arsenal of communication. No more, no less but as a heavy S/m player who rarely shuts her mouth, it's probably best it's in place for me. ::chuckles:: Celeste LOL Bita... so love your responses.... that's why I said I'll use his first name as a safe word.... a word he's not use to hearing during playtime. Specially an intense one. And you're right... the longer the sentence the more it doesn't really sound like something it really wrong. Something not normally said.... way off cue word... stops it all cold... and allowed the situation to regroup... making sure everyone going to survive... LOL

Areflectionofyou -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 4:09:52 AM)
Ive never had a safe word, but feel they are effective for people who use them. If something is that wrong , just as La said, id say something is wrong. I go so deep when i play, that my bodies reaction sends clear enough signals to the Owner that he knows what is happening.

twicehappy -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 4:47:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveofdarkhold - What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation? A safe word is to be used if the sub/slave feels they are in danger or if the scene is too intense for them to handle.Personally i think the need for or use of a safe word depends both on the individuals involved and the situation. quote: Is it ever ok to not have a safeword? Everybody playing with a new partner, just starting in bdsm or just learning something different should have a safe word or agreed upon phase for danger. I think if you are gagging the person they should have one of the standard stop signals available to them. If you are with an established partner this is a different issue. I expect and depend on my owners to know me thoroughly and be able to judge my reactions. My owners and i do not have a safe word, they are aware of the fact that if something is wrong(i mean here like i cannot breathe)i will say stop if I am able to. In reality they know I hit subspace so quickly and once there am not capable of noting much of anything at that point. Basically I rely on them to notice if there is an issue. I trust them both implicitly. Also there are two of them so even while scening mostly with my Master, for instance, my Mistress will check in an on us to be sure all is well. Nobody mentions it much but the dominant is as wired to the scene as the sub/slave. So they back each other up and help one another as needed. quote: Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things? In my case as to saying stop to put a halt to something i simply do not care for or am not enjoying; i am a slave so it is up to them whether or not they choose to stop. On this point let me state that they often check to be sure i am enjoying what is going on by simply checking on my state of arousal. quote: Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment? On the question of a sub using their safe word during punishment i cannot comment as i am a slave, not a sub. I can only describe our stand on the issue. If i do something wrong they know i beat myself up far worse than they ever could. We communicate, they will talk to me and tell me what i have done and help me correct that behavior. I strive to do my best out of love, not fear. None of us cares for the sub/slave mentality of doing something to get whipped, that is a real problem. Often subs will write to my Mistress inquiring "what do you do for punishment if i screw up", the answer they unfailingly receive” why, do you plan on screwing up?" Ours is more of an M/M/s dynamic. For us the bdsm, the whipping etc is for mutual enjoyment and never used for punishment. If i want to be whipped i will ask or beg for it. quote: Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword? Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did? No, I simply would not accept the collar of one who made me feel this way. My submission is not based on how much pain I can handle (though I am a masochist and enjoy it greatly) rather it is based upon 24/7 loving submission.

Lashra -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 4:50:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveofdarkhold o with all that in mind, these are the general points I'd like people to consider - What do you consider an appropriate use of a safeword? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation? - Is it ever ok to not have a safeword? Should subs be able to safeword in a punishment? - Does a safeword automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one safeword to denote different things? -Is the safeword effective? Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to safeword but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it? - (To the subs) Have you ever felt too ashamed or embarassed to safword? Have you ever been pressured by a dominant partner not to use it, or been made to feel bad or 'not a real sub' if you did? Sorry for an extremely long post. Just looking to open up an intelligent discussion on a concept which is often thrown around and taken for granted in places like this. Thoughts from anyone are very welcome, and don't feel you have to answer all of my many questions! jen 1. Appropriate use for a safeword is when a scene is getting beyond the ability of the sub/slave to cope with safely emotionally and physically. It is a hard/fast rule with me. In my opinion anyone who plays without safewords is asking for trouble. 2. No it is never ok not to have a safeword in my opinion. We play dangerous games we need to have safeguards in place to prevent anyone from getting seriously damaged. We use the green ( all is well) yellow (its getting a bit to intense) red (STOP) safewords. If I think my sub maybe stressed I ask him and he gives me one of those responses. Red automatically stops the activity, I assess his condition and I ask him if he seems ok to me "Do you wish to continue?" If he says No then it stops. If your doing an activity where the sub/slave cannot speak then use hand signals. But the most important thing is for the Top to know what they are doing and to always be aware of signs of stress from their bottom. 3. Are safewords effective? Well that depends on a few factors. If the Top is listening and concerned about the bottom they are. But another factor is if a sub is out in subspace sometimes they cannot utter a word, so its up to the Top to watch and monitor their sub during play and protect them from getting hurt if possible. My last sub was a painslut and he would go out into subspace and be unable to feel anything. I could tell by his reactions and lack of vocal response exactly where he was and I knew to slow things down because he simply could not feel what I was doing to him anymore. This is one reason I don't like casual play partners for myself. I like to play with someone on a regular basis so that I do get to know them very well and I can tell by looking/listening to them what is happening. To me safety is paramount and I won't give on that stance. 4. Regarding subs/slaves who won't use safewords. My last sub wouldn't use a safeword if his life depended on it. He was so afraid of disappointing me he'd rather suffer unduly. The Mistress he had before me told him safewords were for wusses[:@] I told him I wouldn't be disappointed if he used his safeword, I was more disappointed if he didn't. A sub/slave should be able to trust their Top with their safety at all times and never feel that they can't use their safewords. ~Lashra

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