RE: Safewords- what are they to you?

RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (Full Version)

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ownedgirlie -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 10:28:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u Owned... I know you and yours don't have one... but you're relationship is as i stated before that quote.... not totally brand new. There's a difference. (Now you know what I ment about quotes being torn apart.) GO back and read the begining again.... LOL Ohhhh okay i missed that part. Sorry sheepish grin. Forgive me, i am seriously on only about 6 hours of sleep this week. Thanks for pointing my nose back in the right direction (and not hitting it with a newspaper). So what's the question to my Master? (or is that something outside of this thread?)

TedEbear -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 11:15:28 AM)
Safe words, Like it, I think they are a good idea. Never had to use it.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 11:35:59 AM)
my Master is of the opinion that a slave to him should and will never have one iota of control. she may suggest, she may ask, she may beg (one time only), but he will never allow her a smidgen of control. Allowing her a safeword gives her authority over a situation. It gives her the authority to, at any time, halt a "scene." (i hate that word). she must trust him fully and completely before ever serving him physically. she must trust that he will know her well enough to read her every response and cry, and that he will keep her unharmed. Such trust is established through many many intense and thorough conversations, guidance, and direction. Any question is welcome, and answered. It's not a scenario where he gets together with someone casually and does not allow a safe word. my Master will not be served by anyone casually - that is simply his way. Any girl who wishes to serve him physically/sexually will have spent significant time with him in discussion before ever doing so, as i did. If i was not able or willing to trust him enough to determine how far he should take me, based on his required knowledge of me, then that meant i was not ready to serve him physically yet. Before i ever served him, i thought i was ready to, and begged to, and after further conversation he sensed a tiny bit of hesitation in me, and postponed the date. He prepared me throroughly - mentally and emotionally - before i ever knelt before him. When i finally did serve him physically the first time, if i had any doubt, he took it away immediately. In one particular situation (keep in mind that i am a bit of a pain wimp), the second the pain became too intense - too overwhelming, he pulled back, without me even begging for him to. The second my eye twitched and my gasping seemed to change, he changed direction. He read me like a book. This has happened every time. Every single time, without fail, my response changes away from what he predicts it should be, he makes an adjustment. That does not mean he stops, but he may change direction for a moment while reassessing. The only time i can recall crying something out that he didn't notice is when my ankle was..well...kind of twisting around to turn my foot so far inward i thought it might snap off. So i shrieked out "ankle! ankle! ankle!!" really fast and he pulled away long enough for me to reattach my foot, and then resumed what he was doing. But that is also evidence of my response differing from what he expects it to be. So, when i say i don't have a safe word, that is why. It works for me, but obviously may not work for everyone. i pass no judgment on those who have them - their arrangement with their Dominants is simply different than mine.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 11:49:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie she must trust him fully and completely before ever serving him physically. she must trust that he will know her well enough to read her every response and cry, and that he will keep her unharmed. Now, I don't use safewords, however they don't give authority over a scene (or anything) any more than "OMG I have a migraine we need to stop" does. A safeword is a signal: "something's wrong" Whether you use a word or just straight out communicate it, the slave isn't in control because the slave safewords and thus somehow overrides what the master wants to do. The master WANTS to know what's going on with the slave and WANTS to make the best choice- and if a master gives a slave a safeword, it's not giving them authority, it's saying "I'm not a mindreader." Say I'm in a partial suspension scene and my leg suddenly cramps. Shrieking "cramp" will cause the master to run to me, help support me and/or get me down. Have I just controlled the scene? Have I just established some sort of authority in the situation? I don't think so. Safewords don't control or take authority over anything any more than any other form of communication does.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 12:02:42 PM)
i suppose it's that i have heard so many say things like, "If I'm afraid I call a safeword so he stops." So, perhaps the intention is to not give carte blanche to a slave to decide when the Master stops or not. i guess it depends on how the practice is applied, or interpreted. Master knows i will react if something is wrong, and while he won't necessarily stop (he hasn't yet), he will assess and adjust if necessary, but it is His decision to do so, not mine. Maybe he wanted my ankle broken, and i just didn't know it (not likely, but it was his option). Again, i am not saying safe words are a bad thing. i am just saying they don't apply to me. If i am afraid, i deal with the fear. If it is overwhelming, he guides me through it. Etc. i understand what you are saying, by comparing a safe word to a warning signal. And with that intention, i guess it then depends on what the understanding and expectation is of what would happen should a safe word be called. Stop the scene? Don't stop the scene unless the Master deems it necessary? So if a slave calls a safe word and the Master decides she needs to continue to go through what she is going through - since he can see she won't be harmed even if she is afraid she might be - is trust damaged? Every situation is circumstantial, and in every situation, the Master decides what should be done. Anything other than that, gives the slave control, doesn't it?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 12:22:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Every situation is circumstantial, and in every situation, the Master decides what should be done. Anything other than that, gives the slave control, doesn't it? First off, we both agree. Neither of us use safe words, both of us understand that communication of all sorts is important, and that a slave saying "somethings wrong" and the master reacting to that is not the slave being in control of the situation. We're cool with that. But you're mixing up control and authority here. He gives you control over what words to post, unless you have to let him ok every single post before you send it? He gives you DIRECT control over what you post. Of course you post according to his general guidelines and preferences- you are always acting under his ultimate AUTHORITY, and I'm sure if you were unsure about a post, you would pass it by him first. But you're still the one in the typist's seat, and in control of the actual post you're sending. I'm not sure of the dynamics of the relationship so I can't say whether you are in control of other things- driving the car, fixing dinner, managing budgets, etc. But being given control over specific things (like posting) doesn't mean you have authority within the relationship. Now, say a master says "I'm giving you this safeword. I expect you to use this word if somethings goes wrong. If you use this word, I will stop the scene." Is the slave now in control by using the safeword she was ordered to use? Does the slave now have ultimate authority? You're the one in control of whether the word gets used, in fact you've been ordered to do so. I don't think so. The slave is obeying and helping the dom create a good scene.

understud -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 12:22:40 PM)
From what i've read everyone agrees to disagree and in that i agree wholeheartedly. if i might be allowed to ask this. What of the very new, meaning me...and an older more experienced Dominant; keeping in mind this encounter is just for fun and play. Would it be better to clearly establish before hand what will or will not happen, plus a through understanding by the Dominant i clearly have little understanding of just how much i can endure at this point. The trust to the Dominant to do the right thing or still as a matter of last resort only try to agree on a signal of word ...i can't stand it please stop. One thing that troubles me, ...i would never intentionally disrupt the "mind-space" of that encounter...that said what would be the best course of action, given i/m determined to see it through...safe word, no safe word...trust totally to the M/Mtress, or any combination of the above. or something completely different. i want to eventually trust someone that much, as yet that's not possible ;so what to do...besides go away... respectfully

BitaTruble -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 12:38:39 PM)
"So i shrieked out "ankle! ankle! ankle!!" I have to ask.. how is that different than using a safeword? The safeword in that moment was 'ankle' rather than .. oh, potato or something, but what's the actual difference? As far as I can tell, it appears that the only difference is that you don't call it a safeword even though it serves the exact same purpose. You still have an out, a way to tell him that something is going on that is unexpected or that he is unaware of and needs to address. I randomly yell out my body parts during intense scenes, cuss words, vile and disgusting names or the names of foods, the names of family members.. hell, all kinds of stuff, except for the one little thing we use where he 'knows' that something is going on with me. In your case, your Master knew immediately he had to address something and took the steps to address it. For me, who may start singing the National Anthem during a scene, 'nothing' is out of the ordinary. lol Celeste

broadline -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 12:40:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ladylexington Safe words are just like SSC -- any easy way to teach the basics of BDSM play. They serve a vital role in this regard. They are no substitute for good communication, judgment, and keen observation. But, I'd encourage anyone learning about BDSM to use them until they learn the skills and practices that safe words represent. applause and whistles Word!

crazypatient -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 1:33:25 PM)
Although I've only been involved in play, the dom always uses safewords, and I dont think that I would meet with him if he didn't, but I have never use them. If if bonds are cutting off my circulation, I politely tell him and he'll check to see if they are. I guess I kind of think of safewords the way you think of using it because it'd be psychologically traumatic..

crazypatient -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 1:47:17 PM)
Okay, here's my conclusion: safewords are only applicable when the sub does not trust the dom, and therefore wouldn't apply to a master/slave relationship. It would only apply to meeting for play, and not even then, usually, because if you dont trust them you probably shouldn't be there in the first place. of course, trust can be misplaced, but if you're already in that situation, the safeword wont be doing much good...

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 1:50:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazypatient Okay, here's my conclusion: safewords are only applicable when the sub does not trust the dom, and therefore wouldn't apply to a master/slave relationship. It would only apply to meeting for play, and not even then, usually, because if you dont trust them you probably shouldn't be there in the first place. of course, trust can be misplaced, but if you're already in that situation, the safeword wont be doing much good... OK did you just get possessed or something in between those two posts? Trust has nothing to do with your leg suddenly going into a painful cramp and you having to shriek that the scene needs to stop. Safewords are not/should not be some symbol of trust. I agree that if you don't trust someone with a safeword then you shouldn't have one and that if you do trust someone with a safeword, then plain old normal communication will do fine. But having one or not having one is no sign of trust in a relationship.

BitaTruble -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 1:51:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazypatient Okay, here's my conclusion: safewords are only applicable when the sub does not trust the dom, and therefore wouldn't apply to a master/slave relationship. It would only apply to meeting for play, and not even then, usually, because if you dont trust them you probably shouldn't be there in the first place. of course, trust can be misplaced, but if you're already in that situation, the safeword wont be doing much good... I have to disagree with this sentiment. I trust Himself with my life. We've been r/t 24/7 for 10 years. He owns me completely... but, he can't read my mind, just my body and sometimes what's going on can't be seen by the naked eye. Celeste

JohnWarren -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 1:55:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazypatient Okay, here's my conclusion: safewords are only applicable when the sub does not trust the dom, and therefore wouldn't apply to a master/slave relationship. It would only apply to meeting for play, and not even then, usually, because if you dont trust them you probably shouldn't be there in the first place. of course, trust can be misplaced, but if you're already in that situation, the safeword wont be doing much good... What a revelation; Libby doesn't trust me and shouldn't be with me in the first place. I certainly will inform her of your considered opinion.

ladylexington -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 2:06:35 PM)
I can only speak from my experience. Keeping in mind my own human limitations as a dominant, I always encourage subs to safeword. I consider the use of safewords part of their responsibility to care for themselves. And, I insist on excellent self-care as a sign of respect toward me.

crazypatient -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 2:13:04 PM)
I'm saying that as others have said, it's based on the definition, and I was agreeing with Celeste and Albatross, but "ankle" became the safeword. In fact, it would have disobediant not to tell him of the problem. He's still in control. He decides what to do about it. But I'm still safe. And I dont know that he'll do that, then how do I know that he'll respect the safeword to begin with? As I said, all the doms I know do use safewords... but that I'm unlikely to use them, and explain that once someone bet he he could make me tap out (he was into submission wrestling) and I took him on... and ended up passing out. That said, if I place myself in a position where I'll need to use a safeword, I shouldn't be there, because if I actually believe that this person may cause harm to me, how do I know they'll respect the safeword? I shouldn't go meet someone I think is an antisocial...

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 5:13:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazypatient That said, if I place myself in a position where I'll need to use a safeword, I shouldn't be there, because if I actually believe that this person may cause harm to me, how do I know they'll respect the safeword? I shouldn't go meet someone I think is an antisocial... I agree- if you don't trust someone to keep your safety in first priority, then having a safeword is pretty useless. That doesn't mean having a safeword or not having one is a sign of trust.

crazypatient -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 6:17:58 PM)
that's true, not so much a sign of trust... I find it comforting for a dom to make a point of respecting safewords... but if I trust him, I'd never have to actually use it...

MichMasochist -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 6:54:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: understud From what i've read everyone agrees to disagree and in that i agree wholeheartedly. if i might be allowed to ask this. What of the very new, meaning me...and an older more experienced Dominant; keeping in mind this encounter is just for fun and play. Would it be better to clearly establish before hand what will or will not happen, plus a through understanding by the Dominant i clearly have little understanding of just how much i can endure at this point. The trust to the Dominant to do the right thing or still as a matter of last resort only try to agree on a signal of word ...i can't stand it please stop. One thing that troubles me, ...i would never intentionally disrupt the "mind-space" of that encounter...that said what would be the best course of action, given i/m determined to see it through...safe word, no safe word...trust totally to the M/Mtress, or any combination of the above. or something completely different. i want to eventually trust someone that much, as yet that's not possible ;so what to do...besides go away... respectfully As a masochist I love pain. There are certain things I love to have done to my body, by a woman. As a sane human I have hard limits, there are things that are offensive, unacceptable, and simply wrong. The question is what is comfort level at this point? and play that way. I have never played with a mistress who said she would play without a safe word. I most likely never will myself

KnightofMists -> RE: Safewords- what are they to you? (4/21/2006 7:33:34 PM)
First of all, I find the term “Safewords” to be a poor label. I prefer the term “Trigger Words and/or Signals”. I see the use of “Trigger Words” as nothing more than a singular word used to communicate a specific message within the play. The question is what message should be associated with the predetermined “Trigger Words”. The use of “Trigger words” and/or The message that these words will communicate is going to be different for everyone Your questions answered: What do you consider an appropriate use of a “Trigger Word”? Is this a hard and fast rule or does it depend on the partner and situation? The trigger words used will be depended on the relationship/partner and the scene/situation. A more casual type play I may have Trigger words that would communicate, Stop or Pause. With my slaves and my bottom there is no Trigger Words to communicate Stop. All three know that the play is governed by one principle… I will do my will, but I will not harm. Due to the type of play I do with these three, verbal communication becomes rather pointless quickly and they are left to respond with hand signals. Often these hand signals become unavailable and it is simple nodding or shaking of the head… usually after along pause from a question I will ask. I will structure my questions in the course of play that will allow a yes or no. But there comes a point that the girls ability to communicate and/or assess there own situation becomes extremely difficult if not impossible. They in effect put complete responsibility on me to judge when play will stop and protect them from harm. Is it ever ok to not have a “Trigger words”? Should subs be able to “Trigger word” in a punishment? Sure, there is lots of types of situations that I wouldn’t feel the need or desire to required any trigger words. I can’t say what subs should have or shouldn’t have. That is for individuals in there own relationships to decide. I myself don’t do corporal punishment so have no need of trigger words. Does a “Trigger words” automatically stop a scene? Do you instead use it as a break to assess the situation or continue in a different direction? Do you have more than one “Trigger word” to denote different things A trigger word may exist in a particular situation to stop play, but then in many cases in my play, Only I decide if play will stop or not. I use Trigger Signals mostly to communicate yes or no responses to the questions I will ask. Is the “Trigger word” effective? Have you ever encountered a situation where a sub may have needed to “Trigger word” but was unable due to being in too much pain/emotion/ in sub space to remember or even think of it? They are only effective if they used and listened to. I am constantly in play situations that my slaves and/or bottom is unable to use a trigger word or even trigger signals. I am often faced with situations that my bottoms find it almost impossible to communicate or respond to my questions. They are at the mercy of my perception and skill in the play.

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