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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/23/2006 9:24:22 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


Funny how it get's boring after WE SAVED YOUR CUTE LITTLE ENGLISH ASS!!!


This is beneath you, DM. She's not old enough to have had her 'cute little English ass' saved in WWII even if the US was all alone which is most certainly was not and she's entitled to think America is boring. You're straying off topic, when you said you wouldn't to defend against, meaningless drivel.  It's unproductive and pointless. Speak to facts, that's what you do best and that's when I like to read you and everyone else who does so rather than spews venom which brings zero to the discussion.

Celeste

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 161
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/23/2006 9:56:54 PM   
DelightMachine


Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline 		IN REPLY TO IRONBEAR:

That statement was meant partly in jest, as I think is made clear in my reply to NWEnglishDom in a post a little above that one. But it was meant partly seriously because -- and I'll repeat myself -- I think it's a good response to someone insulting my country from a country we protected (both in World War II and in the Cold War).

I perfectly well understand that Britain stood up to the Nazis for some time before we got involved. I also understand that plenty of others did. But without our support (before and after we got in), Britain would either have been overrun by the Germans, the Russians or both. No other country was so important to their protection and no other country would have made a difference.

What ticks me off is when some slob whose country, at the very least, is far, far better off because MY country's troops died, in part to defend that slob's country, has the nerve to insult my country. When that happens, a reminder is in order.

And often the insult is related to my country AGAIN sacrificing the lives of its troops to help YET ANOTHER country avoid tyrrany. So a Brit, a Frenchman, a Dutchman will criticize us for doing elsewhere the very thing that WE COULD NOT DO FAST ENOUGH for THEM. The self-centeredness of it and the mean selfishness of it appalls me.

No one from any nation that American troops died to defend or liberate should ever insult this country. And I'll repeat myself yet again -- I said "insult" not "criticize." We can take all the criticism anyone can dish out, so long as it at least seems fair. But what I'm constantly hearing from people in other countries and people posting on these message boards from other countries are bald, obvious insults that have nothing to do with mere criticism and difference of opinion.

EDITED TO ADD THIS NOTE TO IRONBEAR:
I've just noticed something. When slobs insult my country, you say nothing. When I reply, you find the reply objectionable. Just for the record, do you find the original insults objectionable?

SECOND EDIT: AND ANOTHER POINT
And what about the rest of you who find my defense of the U.S. objectionable, and say so on this thread, but say nothing about the insults to this country?

IN REPLY TO CELESTE:
All right. Fine. I'll pass on replying to the insults. You're right. And apparently the humor I intended is lost on others.

< Message edited by DelightMachine -- 4/23/2006 10:10:25 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 162
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/23/2006 10:21:53 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cacodylic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
Hmmm, all negative and no explanations of what any of it is referring to. It might help if your not just wanting to jump in and bitch. If you

A. stated why the US is squandering the good it once had in your opinion.

Gee, I guess they don't cover this on Fox News... maybe reading a real newspaper regularly might help, like the New York Times, the Washington Post, even the Wall Street Journal. In a pinch, a magazine like Time or Newsweek might work.
quote:


B state how this can be fixed.

Regime change would be a good place to start.
quote:


C explain your concept of patriotism and why it's better than DelightMachine's

From Merriam-Webster Online:
Main Entry: pa·tri·ot·ism
: love for or devotion to one's country
Simple and elegant. Nothing here that says it need be uncritical
Main Entry: chau·vin·ism
1 : excessive or blind patriotism -- compare JINGOISM
2 : undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged
Been seeing a lot of that lately....
quote:

D Try communicating instead of calling people names.
I shouldn't have to point this out to an "Educator of PHD's". Don't they still require English Classes and Public Speaking classes?

I deliberately applied the adjectives I used to nouns, not people. If you choose to extend the application, be my guest.

quote:

I give you a A for emotion
a F- for content, no explanation just conclusions.
You may have to take this class over.

Somewhere else maybe -- your accreditation is suspect.


LOL, ok dude, I guess you don't want to get into specifics. You still haven't explained any reasons behind your ascertions, or explained why those actions are wrong. Only thing I know about you is your angry about something.

F-

(in reply to cacodylic)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/23/2006 10:38:40 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


SECOND EDIT: AND ANOTHER POINT
And what about the rest of you who find my defense of the U.S. objectionable, and say so on this thread, but say nothing about the insults to this country?


I'm bound by the word of Himself not to allow the forums to raise my blood pressure, but believe me when I say that the pure drivel that is often offered is passed over ONLY because the collar is held by another and not because I find bigotry at all acceptable no matter who practices it and I have seen enough of it in this single thread to have to use my block button just so my blood pressure doesn't raise and get me into truble for cyber people, whom I don't know and wouldn't wish to know, and jeopardize the wishes of Himself. I strive to control myself knowing I have a thick enough skin to ignore the rantings of the jealous or abusive souls who rail against the country which I love or any other country for that matter.  I would never besmirch another's country as I find it vulgar and undignified.

quote:

IN REPLY TO CELESTE:
All right. Fine. I'll pass on replying to the insults. You're right. And apparently the humor I intended is lost on others.


Time and place, DM and I thank you. My opinions don't matter in the grand scheme of things, but I do find value in your writing and I do spend my time reading what you have to write.

With regards,

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to DelightMachine)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/23/2006 10:54:59 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW
We spent that money on war widows and building memorials to the soldiers that died while we were waiting for you to stop yelping "it's not our war".


It was probably wishful thinking ... in an obviously inane hope that after the travesty of the First World War ... assorted European nations would be able to avoid dragging those outside Europe into a second one.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 1:48:00 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW
We spent that money on war widows and building memorials to the soldiers that died while we were waiting for you to stop yelping "it's not our war".


It was probably wishful thinking ... in an obviously inane hope that after the travesty of the First World War ... assorted European nations would be able to avoid dragging those outside Europe into a second one.


America wasn't dragged into the war by Europeans, your history is failing you. Japan attacked the USA, ’A date which will live in infamy.’” it is pretty irrelevent that Germany then declared war on it after that. I know there are Americans that believe there was a conspiracy by Roosevelt to encourage Japan to attack America but that is crackpot.

By the time the US joined in WWI the German army was all but defeated, the US entering the war was the final nail in the coffin for the Germans.

DM. Britain wouldn't have been over run by the Germans or the Russians if America hadn't entered the war but the war could have gone on for decades in a state of attrition. Britain had won the Battle of Britain, it's navy had all but won the U-boat war and Britain's freedom was secure and would have probably won in North Africa. The British Imperial Indian Army had also stopped the Japanese advance. However, commerce would have probably collapsed and Germany would have probably held most of western Europe.

The war actually gave US industry the impetus to propel the USA into a superpower as did victory for the Russians. The cold war was a fraught time because the arms build up was exactly the reason why WWI started, which was why many Europeans were against the arms race that was taking place on their soil. It takes two to have a arms race and it was such brinkmanship that made many Europeans have a deja vu experience so no, they weren't happy with either the uS or the USSR.

Western Europeans are thankful for the help and sacrifices the US made but don't expect them to be thankful when every time they disagree with US foreign policy they are expected to fall into line and throw palm fronds under the feet of US politicians.

However, Britain received  virtually no Marshall aid so don't expect Brits to be thankful for the Marshall plan and lend-lease cost Britain dear long term because short term the US had them over a barrel. Yes, Brits are thankful to the American soldiers that fought along side them as they are thankful to the Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders and Indians. We are well aware of the debt owed but demanding every generation to show thanks and fall into line with American policy only leaves a bitter taste.

I spend a lot of time tn the US and really enjoy it, my brother adores the US but when you start a thread by insulting everybody, don't expect them to sit up and agree with you. History is complex and a person's perception changes depending where you are. From Europe we acknowledge that the USA made a major contribution and accept that without the US entering the war it would have gone on for decades at a terrible cost but we don't accept the USA saved the world, it didn't. History would have just taken a different course.

DM. MY final word on this thread.  Of all the European countries Britain got the least from the USA and has proved to be the USA's staunchest allie so insulting Britain is like a man kicking his dog and expecting it not to turn round and bite him because he fed it once!

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/24/2006 2:21:13 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 3:22:46 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

IN REPLY TO IRONBEAR:

EDITED TO ADD THIS NOTE TO IRONBEAR:
I've just noticed something. When slobs insult my country, you say nothing. When I reply, you find the reply objectionable. Just for the record, do you find the original insults objectionable?

  1. Why do I say nothing? Ask yourself this, who did you come out at with guns blazing when I suggested Ron should run for president? Answer that and you will find why I am not buying in as much as I may once have. Secondly I have been buying in and onl;y once have I waved a finger at you, when your posts are insulting to others often to me too, especially you comments about GB. What I have posted is comments designed to take the heat off and to try to bet some balance to some of your statements.
  2. Yes I did find you insults objectionable. Had others (non US folk) without provocation made similar comments about the US, I would have found them objectionable.. I can not and will not however comment on those comments bade bu residential US people commenting against their country. That is their right and they too are patriots for thay want, by commenting to di something to fix what they see as wrong....
What I will state is that most Americans do not see what we see when some  Americans visit our country with a boastfull, bragging and in you face "America is bigger abd better" or "If it wasn't for us you would have lost the war" attitudes and comments.. These people are known as "Ugly Americans" The embarase many other Americans and unfortunately it is those who make statements similar to what you have here iunfluence the overseas, from a public view, people about America..... Sadly most people just don't have the chance to get to know America and Americans....

Our two countries are not so dissimilar anpecially Cal folk who are closest to us with humour and laidback outlook. Attitudes probably suit many of the Confederate States (So I'm bloody biased OK? My family fought for the Confederacy).. I could almost guarantee that were I or some other non American, start an identical thread and simply reverse the arguements, you would be leaping into the frey in full combat mode.....Of course I may be wrong, that too haoppens at times..

< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/24/2006 3:23:24 AM >

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(in reply to DelightMachine)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 3:45:25 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		"Americans saved your arse you should be grateful to the USA"

or

"You let us do the real fighting then came in for the glory when the job was almost done"

Either way, a lot of men and women from both sides of the Atlantic gave up their lives so brats like us could discuss it freely sixty years later.




So anyway, why do American Football players need all that padding and a crash helmet ?  It makes Rugby players think they're a bit...........wimpy.

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 4/24/2006 3:47:30 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 4:01:45 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Which queen are you speaking of? 


..just trolled all the way though the thread to see if anyone answered you. Couldn't see an answer so just to be informative, it was Queen Elizabeth II. Who by coincidence has just had her 80th birthday. i'm not a supporter of the monarchy in general, but the demeanour of both our present queen and her mother during world war 2 was exemplary.

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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 4:03:13 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
It was probably wishful thinking ... in an obviously inane hope that after the travesty of the First World War ... assorted European nations would be able to avoid dragging those outside Europe into a second one.


America wasn't dragged into the war by Europeans, your history is failing you. Japan attacked the USA, ’A date which will live in infamy.’” it is pretty irrelevent that Germany then declared war on it after that.

Hardly irrelevant.  In the days between Pearl Harbor and the German declaration of war, there was intense debate on whether we should go to war against Germany and great pressure both in Congress and in the War Department not to get involved in a two front war.

Caitlyn's history isn't "failing her." I think it's your revisionist desires that are getting in the way here.  Just look at the pages of the New York Times and the Congressional Record for a contemporary account of what was going on at that time.

Once Germany declared war Roosevelt was able to push through his "Europe First" policy, but had Hitler not cooperated, there is a good chance we would have followed Carl von Clausewitz's advice to maintain an "economy of force."

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 4:10:56 AM   
JohnWarren


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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Which queen are you speaking of? 


..just trolled all the way though the thread to see if anyone answered you. Couldn't see an answer so just to be informative, it was Queen Elizabeth II. Who by coincidence has just had her 80th birthday. i'm not a supporter of the monarchy in general, but the demeanour of both our present queen and her mother during world war 2 was exemplary.



I thought King George II was in charge at that time.  I must have confused the royal chain of command.  When she wrote "America was put to shame by the UK and its very VERY young QUEEN who
showed the world what giving all for Country during war REALLY ment. Leave it
to a Woman to rally and unite the diverse people of its Kingdom to mutual victory
in a time when only the whites of America were allowed to fight for its rights." I figured she was talking about Elizabeth I or maybe Victoria.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 4:28:13 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Hardly irrelevant.  In the days between Pearl Harbor and the German declaration of war, there was intense debate on whether we should go to war against Germany and great pressure both in Congress and in the War Department not to get involved in a two front war.

Caitlyn's history isn't "failing her." I think it's your revisionist desires that are getting in the way here.  Just look at the pages of the New York Times and the Congressional Record for a contemporary account of what was going on at that time.

Once Germany declared war Roosevelt was able to push through his "Europe First" policy, but had Hitler not cooperated, there is a good chance we would have followed Carl von Clausewitz's advice to maintain an "economy of force."


I accept Germany's declaration of war was not irrelevent but the US was not dragged into the war, it made a calculated decision about tactics based on the situation. I accept Churchill was trying to drag America into the war for a long time but it was war arriving on America's doorstep that was the key and I don't have anything against those Americans that were against enteruing the war, it was their right to have wanted what ever tactics they saw best for their country.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/24/2006 4:31:35 AM >

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 6:26:16 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		OK, I will clear this up once and for all...as a loyal subject, I have the facts
During World War II, when the royal family did indeed stay in London openly, and I assume that is what MistressDread was referring to, The King was George VI, and his wife was indeed named Elizabeth, (nee Lady Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon, daughter of the Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne), also known as the Queen Mum, her official title was Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother. She died in March 2002 at the age of 101.

She was indeed Queen Elizabeth, but as she was not the reigning monarch, she does not get a numeral after her name, therefore her daughter is Elizabeth II, but, during the war Elizabeth II was the heir presumptive, but still only a princess, as she did not become Queen until 1952. She was born in 1926, by the way......
and now back to our regularly scheduled bickering

< Message edited by Arpig -- 4/24/2006 6:27:48 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 6:45:31 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

So a Brit, a Frenchman, a Dutchman will criticize us for doing elsewhere the very thing that WE COULD NOT DO FAST ENOUGH for THEM. The self-centeredness of it and the mean selfishness of it appalls me.


Just in case you are referring obliquly to iraq....Britain and The Netherlands are in there with you guys....so I would say that any Brit or Dutchman has the right to say whatever he wants about the situation.
To make it easier to distinguish those who's bitching should be allowed by your measure, here is a list of countries who had forces in iraq as of august 2005
Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, United Kingdom, and Ukraine.
My understanding is that by now, Poland, Bulgaria, and the Ukraine have withdrawn their forces.
If one includes the action in Afghanistan, then Canada and France (Yes the perfidious French) are included in the list of US allies...so DM, we all have the right to "insult" your country, with regards to its actions in the "War on Terror" (thanks CNN) because we are all involved in that war.

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 7:27:34 AM   
caitlyn


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Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
America wasn't dragged into the war by Europeans, your history is failing you.


Common Meatcleaver ... I refuse to believe an intelligent person like yourself could think for even a moment, that I was actually trying to debate someone that once posted something along the lines of ... you Americans are fat bullies and your country sucks (paraphrased).
 
You must know after all the times that we have interacted on this board, that I save my real debate for men ... not men with the social skills of boys.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 4/24/2006 7:28:40 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 7:48:50 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
America wasn't dragged into the war by Europeans, your history is failing you.


Common Meatcleaver ... I refuse to believe an intelligent person like yourself could think for even a moment, that I was actually trying to debate someone that once posted something along the lines of ... you Americans are fat bullies and your country sucks (paraphrased).
 
You must know after all the times that we have interacted on this board, that I save my real debate for men ... not men with the social skills of boys.


Sorry. Missed that.

I was too over involved with DM

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 8:12:33 AM   
ouchmynutz


Posts: 2
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Status: offline 		Excuse me Maam, What does one have to do in order to be kept in a state of perpetual naturism at the end of your locked chain please?

< Message edited by ouchmynutz -- 4/24/2006 8:13:28 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 8:15:03 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Common Meatcleaver ... I refuse to believe an intelligent person like yourself could think for even a moment, that I was actually trying to debate someone that once posted something along the lines of ... you Americans are fat bullies and your country sucks (paraphrased).

You must know after all the times that we have interacted on this board, that I save my real debate for men ... not men with the social skills of boys.


Can't say I back you on this one. MC has rapidly turned into one of my favorite reads: honest, non PC, experienced, somewhat self effacing, and by all accounts in my book, not boyish.

Good insult though. Quite bruising indeed.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 8:19:55 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline 		ok I edited this mainly on the grounds of ungentlemanly conduct but more realistically because the original wording made me laugh at somene else's expense.

Have a wink. 

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 4/24/2006 8:44:34 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/24/2006 8:20:13 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I wasn't talking about Meatcleaver.
 
You are about five blocks behind this exchange dear.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 180
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