RE: Islamophobia in America (Full Version)

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Raiikun -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 3:56:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Whether you wish to admit it or not, Truckinslave, ANY religious teachings can be perverted to promote violence.


Especially when the guy that wrote the book is one of the extremists promoting violence. ;)

That said, I certainly do agree that a lot of Muslims are very peaceful people and not all extremists.

I'm just saying, that the more I actually look at and get to know about the Qu'ran, the more I'm convinced that it's author was one of the extremists.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:06:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Whether you wish to admit it or not, Truckinslave, ANY religious teachings can be perverted to promote violence.


Especially when the guy that wrote the book is one of the extremists promoting violence. ;)

That said, I certainly do agree that a lot of Muslims are very peaceful people and not all extremists.

I'm just saying, that the more I actually look at and get to know about the Qu'ran, the more I'm convinced that it's author was one of the extremists.


You and Andrew McCarthy.

there are no moderate muslims




Politesub53 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:07:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Nothing said will convince you the answer isnt Islam, so why ask the question ?


What faith do you think is more likely to encourage violence?


Your definition of the Muslim faith is based on the acts of a few terrorists and hardliners. I keep repeating that the actions of the few dont equate to the actions of all. You dont seem to be able to grasp the point.

As for which faith encourages violence, didnt GWB embark on a crusade ( his words )




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:15:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Nothing said will convince you the answer isnt Islam, so why ask the question ?


What faith do you think is more likely to encourage violence?


Your definition of the Muslim faith is based on the acts of a few terrorists and hardliners. I keep repeating that the actions of the few dont equate to the actions of all. You dont seem to be able to grasp the point.

As for which faith encourages violence, didnt GWB embark on a crusade ( his words )


One of his words. you might listen to liberal commentators on GWB and his "crusade".


Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson is also looking for an assist from Bush. "I…would love to hear from former President Bush on this issue," Robinson wrote Tuesday in a Post chat session. "He held Ramadan iftar dinners in the White House as part of a much broader effort to show that our fight against the al-Qaeda murderers who attacked us on 9/11 was not a crusade against Islam. He was absolutely right on this point, and it would be helpful to hear his views."

Maureen Dowd similarly wishes that Bush would enter the picture and save Obama's sorry ass on the mosque issue.




Politesub53 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:24:48 PM)

It doesnt alter the fact he said it does it. It doesnt alter the fact Tony Blair said he had spoken with his maker on the Iraq war.

Once again you sidestep the point, which is that not all Muslims are terrorists. Just as not all Catholics and Protestants are terrorists, although some undoubtedly are.





willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:25:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It doesnt alter the fact he said it does it. It doesnt alter the fact Tony Blair said he had spoken with his maker on the Iraq war.

Once again you sidestep the point, which is that not all Muslims are terrorists. Just as not all Catholics and Protestants are terrorists, although some undoubtedly are.




You mean the strawman that anyone claims that all Muslims are terrorists?




Politesub53 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:31:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You mean the strawman that anyone claims that all Muslims are terrorists?


"Strawman" thats quite ironic given both the thread title and its content.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 4:33:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You mean the strawman that anyone claims that all Muslims are terrorists?


"Strawman" thats quite ironic given both the thread title and its content.


Whats ironic about a thread where a liberal puts forth strawmen? Its SOP.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 5:11:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Whats ironic about a thread where a liberal puts forth strawmen? Its SOP.



quote:

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.


How can you make a claim that it is a strawman? The facts speak for themselves. Protests against mosques for the reason that they will be "Terrorist" training centers or promote "Extremist" views.

How about the following examples:

quote:

In the last few months, Muslim groups have encountered unexpectedly intense opposition to their plans for opening mosques in Lower Manhattan, in Brooklyn and most recently in an empty convent on Staten Island.

Some opponents have cited traffic and parking concerns. But the objections have focused overwhelmingly on more intangible and volatile issues: fear of terrorism, distrust of Islam and a linkage of the two in opponents’ minds.
source


quote:

In the Nashville suburb of Murfreesboro, opponents of a new Islamic center say they believe the mosque will be more than a place of prayer. They are afraid the 15-acre site that was once farmland will be turned into a terrorist training ground for Muslim militants bent on overthrowing the U.S. government.

"They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group," said Bob Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area.[SNIP]

In Temecula, Calif., opponents brought dogs to protest a proposed 25,000-square-foot mosque that would sit on four acres next to a Baptist church. Opponents worry it will turn the town into haven for Islamic extremists, but mosque leaders say they are peaceful and just need more room to serve members.

source

Or the may 10th pipe bombing of a mosque during prayer services in Florida?

When was the last time a church was protested? When was the last time a predominantly white church was bombed during services or set on fire?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 5:19:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Whats ironic about a thread where a liberal puts forth strawmen? Its SOP.



quote:

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.


How can you make a claim that it is a strawman? The facts speak for themselves. Protests against mosques for the reason that they will be "Terrorist" training centers or promote "Extremist" views.

How about the following examples:

quote:

In the last few months, Muslim groups have encountered unexpectedly intense opposition to their plans for opening mosques in Lower Manhattan, in Brooklyn and most recently in an empty convent on Staten Island.

Some opponents have cited traffic and parking concerns. But the objections have focused overwhelmingly on more intangible and volatile issues: fear of terrorism, distrust of Islam and a linkage of the two in opponents’ minds.
source


quote:

In the Nashville suburb of Murfreesboro, opponents of a new Islamic center say they believe the mosque will be more than a place of prayer. They are afraid the 15-acre site that was once farmland will be turned into a terrorist training ground for Muslim militants bent on overthrowing the U.S. government.

"They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group," said Bob Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area.[SNIP]

In Temecula, Calif., opponents brought dogs to protest a proposed 25,000-square-foot mosque that would sit on four acres next to a Baptist church. Opponents worry it will turn the town into haven for Islamic extremists, but mosque leaders say they are peaceful and just need more room to serve members.

source

Or the may 10th pipe bombing of a mosque during prayer services in Florida?

When was the last time a church was protested? When was the last time a predominantly white church was bombed during services or set on fire?


The strawman came in your second post, making totally clear your reason for starting the thread:

"The Republicans and conservative right have done more in the last few weeks, if not months, to stir up anti-Muslim sentiment. The problem is that the Democrats and Liberals are letting them get away with it."

The implication is that Republicans and conservatives are as a group islamophobic, not that there happen to be islamaphobes in America. And I know plenty of liberals that you would most likely consider "islamophobes", for example being strongly opposed to the mosque.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/26/2010 5:20:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961



When was the last time a church was protested?


Probably within the last month if not the last week.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 1:36:40 PM)

quote:

Arson reported at Tennessee mosque construction site

MURFREESBORO, TENN — Federal agents have been called in after someone poured flammable liquid on four pieces of construction equipment early today at the site of a planned new Islamic center and mosque just outside Murfreesboro.

A CBS television affiliate is reporting that it is being investigated as arson.

Carmie Ayash, a spokeswoman for the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, said the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department was contacted around 1:30 a.m. by someone who had seen the fire.

Ayash said the vandalism at the site "takes it to a whole new level." A sign on the property, off Bradyville Pike just southeast of Murfreesboro, has been damaged twice by vandals.

"Everyone in our community no longer feels safe," she said. "To set a fire that could have blown up equipment and, God forbid, spread and caused damage to the neighbors there ... we really feel like this is something that we and the neighbors don't deserve.



source

Funny, I have never heard of the construction of a new church being protested.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 1:51:17 PM)

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202470575438

Court: N.Y. Town's Opposition to Church Violated Federal Law
Mark Hamblett

New York Law Journal
August 19, 2010


Funny thing is if you spend 30 seconds looking you can find the info.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 1:59:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202470575438

Court: N.Y. Town's Opposition to Church Violated Federal Law
Mark Hamblett

New York Law Journal
August 19, 2010


Funny thing is if you spend 30 seconds looking you can find the info.



How many church construction sites have been the targets of arson? How many churches are the target of anti-christian vandalism? For that matter, how many churches have been firebombed that was not racially motivated? Or how many pipebombs have been placed outside churches?




Rule -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 2:09:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
Funny thing is if you spend 30 seconds looking you can find the info.


luckydawg has proven that you do not know what you are talking about, that you are insufficiently informed. The opinions and arguments of such an insufficiently informed person are without value altogether, for they can lead only to erroneous conclusions and wrong decisions and wrong actions.

Instead of acknowledging him being right and you being inadequate, you ignore his proof and continue to promote you own troll agenda. It would behoove you to acknowledge his proof and to eat humble bread and to be silent.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 2:19:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Arson reported at Tennessee mosque construction site

MURFREESBORO, TENN — Federal agents have been called in after someone poured flammable liquid on four pieces of construction equipment early today at the site of a planned new Islamic center and mosque just outside Murfreesboro.

A CBS television affiliate is reporting that it is being investigated as arson.

Carmie Ayash, a spokeswoman for the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, said the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department was contacted around 1:30 a.m. by someone who had seen the fire.

Ayash said the vandalism at the site "takes it to a whole new level." A sign on the property, off Bradyville Pike just southeast of Murfreesboro, has been damaged twice by vandals.

"Everyone in our community no longer feels safe," she said. "To set a fire that could have blown up equipment and, God forbid, spread and caused damage to the neighbors there ... we really feel like this is something that we and the neighbors don't deserve.



source

Funny, I have never heard of the construction of a new church being protested.


Funny that you think you are so knowledgable and well read that if you havent heard about it it must not happen.

It happens, including this one, and one in my NJ neighborhood about 6 years ago.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 2:26:48 PM)

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-norfolk/why-did-the-press-ignore-the-firebombing-of-sarah-palin-s-church



On the night of December 12, 2008, the Wasilla Bible Church was set ablaze by arsonists.

At the time, several women and children were inside working on a craft project. They were alerted to the fire when the alarm began sounding, by that time, the front of the church was engulfed in flames.



this next one is far more comprehensive, and from a reputable source, It answers all 4 of your new questions.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0208/p02s01-ussc.html

It only takes a willingness to look jilf.






luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 2:30:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
Funny thing is if you spend 30 seconds looking you can find the info.


luckydawg has proven that you do not know what you are talking about, that you are insufficiently informed. The opinions and arguments of such an insufficiently informed person are without value altogether, for they can lead only to erroneous conclusions and wrong decisions and wrong actions.

Instead of acknowledging him being right and you being inadequate, you ignore his proof and continue to promote you own troll agenda. It would behoove you to acknowledge his proof and to eat humble bread and to be silent.




I really do not want your support rule. While Jilf is a partisan you are, well, I am trying to behave so I won't say.




jlf1961 -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 2:39:57 PM)

Okay, so churches have been protested, and have been the targets of arson. The question I have raised and continue to raise, were these acts motivated by racism or religious intolerance?

The reason for the present protests over mosques are on record as being based in religious intolerance. Claims that the mosques would become training grounds for terrorists, Muslim Extremists, or just being against the religion as a whole.

Of course, there are more than a few on these boards that will say that Muslims do not have the right to religious freedom based on the fact that a very small percentage of Muslims are extremists.

Perhaps the first amendment needs to be rewritten to make these Americans who are protesting Islam members of the only accepted religion in the United States.




luckydawg -> RE: Islamophobia in America (8/30/2010 2:51:59 PM)

Really can you produce that record? Because you haven't yet. Or are you just babbling. What evidence is there that the Murpheesboroo case isn't an insurance fraud? Or potentially something else.





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