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RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 3:46:25 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		"The Republican Party" is not a generalization. But when you say, "members of this forum that lean to the right denies (sic) the problem," that is a generalization. Not all members of this forum who "lean to the right" deny the problem, and dismissing reality out of hand in order to enjoy a good smear serves only to taint the views you express and increase the likelihood that your point will go out the window with the baggage.

Have a cold beer.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 3:47:43 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Vendaval, the members of this forum that lean to the right denies the problem, although the Republican Party is passively and sometimes actively anti-Islam.

All generalizations are false, including this one. ~Mark Twain

K.


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Profile   Post #: 222
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 4:33:46 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

"The Republican Party" is not a generalization. But when you say, "members of this forum that lean to the right denies (sic) the problem," that is a generalization. Not all members of this forum who "lean to the right" deny the problem, and dismissing reality out of hand in order to enjoy a good smear serves only to taint the views you express and increase the likelihood that your point will go out the window with the baggage.

Have a cold beer.

K.


Kirata,
I have seen more people who belong to this forum that lean to the right denounce Islam and various Islamic centers and few if any right leaning members denounce those stands. Would you have been more happy if I said 99%? or maybe MOST of the right leaning members seem to ignore the problem or do not come out against the problem?

Instead I have seen right leaning individuals attack the concept of the problem, deny the problem of anti-muslim protests as being minimal if any, and refusing to acknowledge that anti-Muslim hate crimes are second to anti-Semitic hate crimes when it comes to religious based hatred.

So, in deference to you, I will say that it seems that few, if any, right leaning members of this forum have denounced or condemned anti-Muslim sentiment that has been evidenced in various topics.

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Profile   Post #: 223
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 4:36:52 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		FR

Whilst there are political factions in the US that promote an anti Muslim mentality, America will always have an enemy to fear and fight. And with that, an increase in security that affects the lives of everyone and a raping of the tax payers pocket for the military to make you feel safe, until the next time, the next bogeyman, the next reason to build your military machine to serve the purposes of others.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 224
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 5:14:58 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Fast Reply -

I don't view this as a conservative/liberal or left/right problem. Freedom of religion is a principle and part of the Bill of Rights. Vandalism or violence targeting any religious group or their place of worship is not legal and is unacceptable behavior in a civilized society.

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(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 5:34:24 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Yes you got it right, a civilised society, could it be the fear that is being created by those who terrorise and those that profit from it are causing the break down of civilised behaviour ?

In which case those that terrorise have won, for they have created fear where perhaps there was none before and that is all a terrorist need do, for they have achieved their aim.

Now because of those that create fear through terrorism there is a destabilisation within the country where the acts were committed and with that the debates that come and the break up of the cohesiveness that might have existed before. In short that nation begins to fear and there suspect their neighbours.

The end result, you destroy yourself from within, thus relieving the terrorist factions of the once outward control.

For example, is shit broke out at home, American started to fight and kill American, would the interests overseas be so interesting with a home country to quell and bring back into line.

An increase in terrorist actions only goes to reinforce that fear and make it more palpable, as it is clear those of the same belief are nothing more than sacrificial goats to the cause, those of the same belief in that enemy nation will be used to achieve an aim and in this case the aim apparently is the destruction of the US.

The ball is rolling, fear has been created, it is up to you now how you stop this action, but one thing is known, the solution of a problem is knowing of it's purpose in the first place.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 226
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 5:40:25 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
Yeah...because the whole "Love and forgive one another" schtick is SO incompatible with tolerance, Democracy, and freedom.

I think you may have missed a few passages in the "good" book because it has a little more to say than that. For instance:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

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Profile   Post #: 227
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 5:57:37 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
There is a difference between expressing your own position on a subject, and denouncing another for holding a different view in the matter. The cheap thrill of moral or intellectual superiority that the latter seems to afford to some people is in my opinion not worth the loss. Firstly, because making an opponent feel insulted and disrespected will only cause him to dig in his heels and harden his position. And secondly, because it burdens one's own side with an ill-behaved idiot whose rantings enhance nobody's confidence in the rationality of the position being defended.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/31/2010 6:12:37 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 6:11:48 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Firstly, this is a passage from the Old Testament and therefore it has no relevance for Christians and post-Christians.

Secondly, this clearly is not a commandment given by the last pagan god of the Jews (and of everybody else) as he is spoken about in the third person in the parts that I made bold. Apparently some Abrahamic Jew inserted this forgery into the text.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 6:28:56 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


There is a difference between expressing your own position on a subject, and denouncing another for holding a different view in the matter. The cheap thrill of moral or intellectual superiority that the latter seems to afford to some people is in my opinion not worth the loss. Firstly, because making an opponent feel insulted and disrespected will only cause him to dig in his heels and harden his position. And secondly, because it burdens one's own side with an ill-behaved idiot whose rantings enhance nobody's confidence in the rationality of the position being defended.

K.


Well, if you morally and ethically believe that someone is wrong, would it be wrong to speak up and say so?

What is the old saying, "Evil will win when good men do nothing." or something to that effect.


Is the first amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

or is it:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof (unless you are Muslim); or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 7:02:14 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

What is the old saying, "Evil will win when good men do nothing." or something to that effect.

I'm sure you see the point I was making... I didn't say, "do nothing."

Incidentally, don't worry about getting that quote right. It's bogus in all its various forms.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 7:27:40 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Firstly, this is a passage from the Old Testament and therefore it has no relevance for Christians and post-Christians.

Secondly, this clearly is not a commandment given by the last pagan god of the Jews (and of everybody else) as he is spoken about in the third person in the parts that I made bold. Apparently some Abrahamic Jew inserted this forgery into the text.

For a supergenius, you sure come up with some magical thinking.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 7:37:57 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Please elaborate upon your statement.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: Islamophobia in America - 8/31/2010 10:52:51 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		What exactly is a "post-Christian"? And what is your proof of forgery?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/1/2010 11:13:39 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Those are good exam questions. Thank you for posing them. Please answer them as well.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/1/2010 12:22:57 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Firstly, this is a passage from the Old Testament and therefore it has no relevance for Christians and post-Christians.

Secondly, this clearly is not a commandment given by the last pagan god of the Jews (and of everybody else) as he is spoken about in the third person in the parts that I made bold. Apparently some Abrahamic Jew inserted this forgery into the text.

For a supergenius, you sure come up with some magical thinking.



Thorny, the word you are looking for is delusional.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/1/2010 1:37:35 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Um, if I am delusional, then perhaps you are non-delusional? I do know that you are no supergenius, though.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/1/2010 1:54:26 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Um, if I am delusional, then perhaps you are non-delusional? I do know that you are no supergenius, though.


And from your posts, we know that you arent severely retarded. Unfortunately thats about as high as we can go without further evidence.

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/1/2010 2:27:27 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

The LORD your God... (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Whacko atheists (not all are) and fundamentalist preachers share a mindless proclivity for arguing their points by quoting the Bible as if it represented the absolute word of God in every bizarre particular, no matter how offensive, contradictory, or demonstrably false. And compared to that, their difference of opinion in other respects fades into insignificance. In a theological debate with a lamp post, the latter's inability to imagine that it knows anything about the subject would give it the advantage over both of them.

K.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Islamophobia in America - 9/1/2010 3:01:16 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

The LORD your God... (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Whacko atheists (not all are) and fundamentalist preachers share a mindless proclivity for arguing their points by quoting the Bible as if it represented the absolute word of God in every bizarre particular, no matter how offensive, contradictory, or demonstrably false. And compared to that, their difference of opinion in other respects fades into insignificance. In a theological debate with a lamp post, the latter's inability to imagine that it knows anything about the subject would give it the advantage over both of them.

K.



I have not met an atheist that quoted the bible, but then I have not meant many atheists so I am sure that some are bible quoters.

However, Kirata, I have met a large number of fundamentalist Christians who seem to have a bible quote for any possible topic. I have also been told I am going to hell by these people for 1) growing up Catholic and never denouncing the church and accepting Jesus as my personal savior (I thought I did that when I was baptized) and 2) because, while in the army I took human lives. (Jehovah's Witnesses told me that)

What I find funny is that these fundamentalists swear the bible speaks out against the Jews and Muslims.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 240
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