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RE: socialist health care - 8/29/2010 2:49:08 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No I never disputed that. I said the numbers you posted dont make sense, and now I will explain why they are apparently so different, when if fact they arent.

Of course they are different, you even admit to guessing at your own figures.

quote:

US government expenditures on health care are extremely heavily weighted toward Medicare, ie over age 65 participants, which is a minimum of 3x as expensive as average costs. So 29% of the population equates to about 90% on an equivalent cost basis. Gross up the 7.3% of GDP from 90% to 100% and you have an truer equivalence at about 8% of GDP for 100% of the population in the US vs 6.9% in the UK. (Using your numbers).

You got a point there brains, we dont care for the elderly and just shoot them at 65.

quote:

You also have to adjust the 6.9% in the UK because it doesnt really cover 100% of the costs. Private costs are around 15% of overall cost in the UK, which is algebraically equivalent to only covering 85% of the "average population", not 100%. Grpss up the 6.9% from 85% to 100% and the comparable numbers are now 8% US vs 8.1% UK.

Based on your assumption of costs and nothing more.

quote:

I dont know what the copays and deductibles are in the UK, I would expect it is more complete coverage than Medicare. Based on the premiums for closing gap in Medicare coverage, the 8% in the US needs to be grossed up by about 12% to about 9.1%

Cant argue with an assumption, as we dont do copay.

quote:

So even assuming NHS pays for everything the comparable numbers are about 9.1% vs 8.1% for equivalent levels and ages of populations. Not even close to the 3.6 times the costs that a rudimentary gross up of 29% of the population would imply.

There you go with caring for them elderly critters again.

quote:

now, how about some more misleading numbers that you think show higher quality.

No need, I will let you sort out the mistakes in your assumptions first.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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RE: socialist health care - 8/29/2010 6:15:51 AM

DCWoody

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Guys, could you perhaps post your sources? Would help your arguement(s).

@Joether, willbes source is himself, he estimated those numbers using a variety of incorrect data and a basic maths error. (and an overall method which is actually an argument in favour of the us converting to and NHS style system, which I doubt he intended)

My specific source is the OECD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_Economic_Co-operation_and_Development

Though pretty much the same numbers are given by everyone (The WHO, CIA world factbook, the specific governments themselves, etc)..it's just the up to dateness that varies....the OECD numbers I used were from 2008/9, which is pretty fresh.

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Post #: 102

RE: socialist health care - 8/29/2010 6:37:34 AM

Aneirin

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I suppose the attitude to healthcare in the US is the same as the notion of industry, hell I understand US healthcare is industry and only those that earn have a right to get healthcare as befitting their status.

America, the land of opportunity, why so many crossed the oceans and with that the pride that in ancestry they achieved, so could afford what they could not afford in their ancestral lands, I wonder if that notion has anything to do with the opposition to socialist or perceived socialist health care.

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Post #: 103

RE: socialist health care - 8/29/2010 6:47:35 AM

DCWoody

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There was a study a while ago on why that appears to be, when in reality the US is one of the most wealth inequal, and least meritocratic, wealthy nation. According to them (and I can't remember where I read it, so salt to taste) there were an astonishing number of americans who either (paraphrasing here): were extremely confident that they'd get millionaire rich with their new idea/business/if they worked hard, or thought there was some sort of evil conspiracy of lizard men, NWO, jews, bankers, etc....specifically keeping them down, and everything would be fine if they could get rid of the secret powers running everything.

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Post #: 104

RE: socialist health care - 9/1/2010 1:05:23 AM

Hippiekinkster

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Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

There was a study a while ago on why that appears to be, when in reality the US is one of the most wealth inequal, and least meritocratic, wealthy nation. According to them (and I can't remember where I read it, so salt to taste) there were an astonishing number of americans who either (paraphrasing here): were extremely confident that they'd get millionaire rich with their new idea/business/if they worked hard, or thought there was some sort of evil conspiracy of lizard men, NWO, jews, bankers, etc....specifically keeping them down, and everything would be fine if they could get rid of the secret powers running everything.

If working hard were the "secret of success", every single mother who works two jobs would be a millionaire.

In general, success in the US is dependent more on luck than anything else.
>being born white and male
>going to the right school(s)
>being in the right social circle
>having wealthy parents
>cultivating connections (networking and/or asskissing)

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Post #: 105

RE: socialist health care - 9/1/2010 10:58:34 AM

DCWoody

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Sadly, the UK was the least meritocratic after the usa. Things may have changed though, we've had some tax movements....but I reckon it's cultural over here more than anything else.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

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Post #: 106