RE: Monogamy Agonistes (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 5:29:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

I never said transcendent pleasure was gender specific, but only that I find very few women truly satisfied by dominating men. And of course there are exceptions.....nothing I have said is absolute. They are thoughtful musings on an important subject.


The funny thing about this.......I have found very few men I think worthy of respect and the label of Master. Your posts do not increase that number.

OP, it is obvious you are well educated formally. However your posts scream of one true wayism and that speaks of narrow minded ignorance.

The thing is, each and every one of us have our own, sometimes evolving, one true way. For me, and I think most of us here, our one true way is really only applicable when looking for a partner/s.

As example, a man that identifies as a hetro Gorean. He couldn't be a more wrong choice for me, in search of a significant other. That does not invalidate his identity or his relationship goals and choices. It only makes him, not for me.

You would have a great deal more sucess if you would present your opinions as being based upon your life desires and choices instead of trying to generalize and apply YOUR way to all of us.




sexyred1 -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 5:37:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg


On a serious note, I enjoyed the thoughtful comments even those I disagreed with and can not help but wish everyone the best of luck on what is often a difficult journey. Even if I find some of the difficulty self-inflicted, I am aware of the shortage of good intelligent mature men able to handle intelligent women (strange how no one commented when I talked about that) and intelligent women are always the greatest turn-on and their submission the only one of value. I tried to not use any ad hominem arguments and hope I succeeded in that. May you all have a wonderful weekend. :-)

Love,
Patrick


Bullshit. You don't believe that at all, as you state slaves and submissive women are deluded into expecting monogamy and therefore will remain single and unfulfilled until they agree with your thesis that in order to be a good slave/submissive you must agree to whatever the guy wants.

As you may have noticed during the entire thread, intelligent women could eat you for breakfast, spit you out and never break a nail.




BBBTBW -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 5:57:02 AM)

Basically what I get from his posting is

#1 All women should be submissives/slaves (simply because he doesn't make a distinction)

#2 He just wants to stick his dick in any hole that will allow it. Be Damned your mental and emotional well being.

An Owner that is not a FRAUD (his word since he doesn't like the word "fake"} will be up front and honest about the expectations of the slave, will take everything about the slave into consideration when making decisions about the activities they engage in and will be understanding when there is something the slave is not interested in; ready for or able to do be it mental, physical or emotional.

Submissives/slaves are living breathing human beings just like Owners are. We are all subject to exquisite joy as well as severe damage. The whole person needs to be taken into consideration, not just the whims or the will of the Owner. Its sounds like the OP has been reading too many commercialized depictions of what the dynamics of a "lifestyle" relationship is that is view on reality has become warped.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:22:20 AM)

I was going to stop ad will soon as my extremely courteous and gracious sign-off has not really stopped the unexpected ad hominem nonsense and Latigresses comment was thoughtful and deserves comment

latigresse - I could not agree with your first sentence more; there are amazingly few men who deserve it. Therefore, excluding those who have obtained the submission of a woman and not discarder her, makes the remaining pool weaker. That is all. I can be fairly accused of elitism, but I have never denied that. I do not believe in 'one true way' regarding anything and there are many paths to domination. I personally find all orthodoxies like Gor, etc. kind of silly, but even though there are many paths, see below,

sexyred - Yes, a 'good' sub/slave must agree to whatever her Master wants. That seems a somewhat self evident truth unless its just play, but this glory of this lifestyle has always reseted in its deeper meaning and the trust and eroticism that accompanies real submission.




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:25:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirJ40

Wow.. I just had a first-hand experience of second-hand embarrassment for my entire gender.
@"master"pdg, please stop putting words, gender and role biases, and redneck thoughts into my mouth.. I don't agree with you.
Oh.. and I AM  the dominant Polyamorous guy with the pan-sexual Poly sub/wife who is a voyeur and enjoys watching me have sex with other women whenever I feel like it that you wish you were.
Don't hate me because I am and have everything you want... hate me because I think you're an idiot.

As a redneck, I feel safe in speaking for us all.  We wouldn't offer him a pickled pigs foot and a PBR. 

He definately ain't one of us.  We have more class.

Just sayin...




sexyred1 -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:27:45 AM)

You continue to justify your own opinion by trying to lump everyone into the "glory of this lifestyle" crap.

Simply put: there are many versions of dominance and submission, not just yours.

Within these relationships, THEIR version of trust and eroticism is developed in their individual dynamic.

Using the word REAL in front of submission as you keep doing, just continues to make you look like a pompous ass.




DesFIP -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:28:01 AM)

A good sub/slave will use her intelligence to stop her dominant from screwing up his life by not obeying when it's obvious he hasn't thought things out.

You, op, are human. Therefore you will fuck up, it's guaranteed that when we are the first, we do the second. Really want her to obey when the results will destroy the relationship or your home? Smart people feed the relationship's wants and needs first, before their own. By your own words you don't fall into that category.




jujubeeMB -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:33:54 AM)

OP -

Fact: Multiple men and women (Dom/mes and subs/slaves) disagree with your stance on monogamy, in this thread alone. Does that tell you anything about making a generalization and applying it to all submissive women?

Fact: The people who can see your point as a concept (the whole idea of a slave submitting to whatever her D-type wants) all agree that the slave needs to be comfortable with said concept, and not just doing it because he or she "should."

Fact: You can only speak for yourself, just as the rest of us can only speak for ourselves.

Fact: None of us are having as difficult a time as you finding someone (or multiple someones) compatible with what we want, so you can stop worrying about how our monogamous ways are "making it more difficult for us." We are all happily living our submissive/dominant lives without any need for assistance from you.

Fact: You keep mentioning that a tied up and gagged slave has no ability to enforce limits due to the fact that an untrustworthy Master could do whatever he wanted to her, up to and including killing her. I have a question for you. Do you sleep at some point? Do you have knives in your house? Because you know, a slave could go get a knife and stab you while you're sleeping, and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Sound kind of dramatic? It is. So is the concept that Doms are going around violently breaking subs' limits just because said sub is tied up and gagged. If someone ties me up, gags me and proceeds to do things that he knows are hard limits of mine, you'd better believe that when I get free I am either walking out the door, calling the police or both. We subs/slaves are not helpless creatures, OP, and just because we trust someone and put our safety in their hands doesn't mean we can't take action to protect ourselves. It's almost like you're trying to argue that men will do whatever they want to do, and we should re-structure our reactions to that so that we can handle it better and be happier about it. How incredibly co-dependent of you.

Fact: As twoshoes pointed out, people would be kinder to you if you wanted to discuss the idea instead of condescendingly attempting to insist that your way is the "one twue way." You may not care about people being kinder to you, but you really ought to, because potential subs and slaves looking at your profile will check out your forum posts, and an inability to see other points of view or accept that you may not know everything does not make for a very trustworthy Dom. I completely get that you feel strongly about being a good, moral, trustworthy Dom, so you might consider a sliver of humility - there is no growth without it.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:37:52 AM)

sexyred,

I am sorry words have meaning and that upsets you. A good submissive, submits. Other relationships can be great and have their own dynamic, but as soon as these limits or conditions are imposed they can't have the same complete dynamic that a relationship with complete trust and no limits has, thats all. Also, please don't be ignorant as to dare judge whether I love smart women. I do. The submission of a dumb woman also lacks meaning. You can disagree all you want with me, but do not question my honesty. After all, it is my honest about this issue that has caused me to be attacked.

desfib - no a good slave/sub will choose a man whose judgment is good and whose mistakes are in good faith. if you think a good slave/sub questions orders that she doesn;t think are thought through, that completely undermines the relationship.




sexyred1 -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:44:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

sexyred,

I am sorry words have meaning and that upsets you. A good submissive, submits. Other relationships can be great and have their own dynamic, but as soon as these limits or conditions are imposed they can't have the same complete dynamic that a relationship with complete trust and no limits has, thats all. Also, please don't be ignorant as to dare judge whether I love smart women. I do. The submission of a dumb woman also lacks meaning. You can disagree all you want with me, but do not question my honesty. After all, it is my honest about this issue that has caused me to be attacked.



Please, you are telling me about words? Don't even go there. And I am not upset; I don't know you, you have no effect on my life, you are pixels on a screen. You mistake lively debate for being upset. Another condescending behavior on your part.

What limits and conditions are you talking about?? How dare you judge other relationships by saying that myriad other relationships cannot be successful unless there are no limits. You cannot be for real. You must be bored out of your mind last night and today to be this dense.

And don't tell me I am ignorant, I have your number as well as everyone else here. You are the ignorant one if you expect us to believe that you respect intelligent women.

Saying blanket statements like "a good submissive, submits" shows me you want a mindless drone who never questions any of your decisions.

You really have been reading too many novels, haven't you?





masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:51:18 AM)

jujubee -

Thank you for that thoughtful comment. I think you and others have read way to much into my comments, but since your post is cogently stated, I shall try to reply. Of course many people disagree with my stance. Monogamy is the hegemonic cultural paradigm in the western world. I expect disagreement and would be shocked if it did not exist. That of course doesn't address the merits of the issue.

Yes, I sleep and of course I have knives (I enjoy cooking), but you are kind of proving my point. Thats why it is silly to discuss such things as any sane person would not engage in what you describe. I am confused as to why a woman would want to limit her owner's pleasure through limits or want to turn romance into negotiation, but if that is what you desire that is fine for you.

You are further right that I could be more humble and I stand justly accused of that, but to be honest when you post some thoughts (at the prodding of a very intelligent and sweet girl who is in real trouble) and get attacked, occasionally personally, by dozens, polemic comes a bit more naturally. Even your otherwise thoughtful post for some reason talked a out me having a hard time. I already have a great wife and slave and have owned a women near continuously for over 22 years with numerous multiple partner sessions, but I am looking a serious addition to our family now and never expected that to me an overnight process.





Icarys -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:53:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

A good sub/slave will use her intelligence to stop her dominant from screwing up his life by not obeying when it's obvious he hasn't thought things out.

You, op, are human. Therefore you will fuck up, it's guaranteed that when we are the first, we do the second. Really want her to obey when the results will destroy the relationship or your home? Smart people feed the relationship's wants and needs first, before their own. By your own words you don't fall into that category.


This as always is MY choice. I decide what happens in a relationship and we both ride out the mistakes as well as enjoy the fruits of good decisions. If your master needs you to be that kind of person.to disobey because he hasn't thought things out..I'd have to wonder what kind of leader he is to have made a rash call.

As a human I know I will make mistakes so I don't feel the need to be perfect in every single decision..Do my best..yes but perfection..no.

That said..I don't mind making mistakes because they have something to teach me. She will either be okay with my leadership, good and bad or she'll have to pack her happy ass down the road.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:54:55 AM)

ok sexyred,

since you obviously are reading carefully no more replies to you. I do not want to make personal comments as I am an honorable man, but you enjoy the ad hominem and avoiding the substance.
Good luck with whatever you are trying to find and a moron could tell you are upset.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:56:12 AM)

I meant of course, sexyred was not reading carefully




poise -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:56:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg
ok sexyred,

since you obviously are reading carefully no more replies to you. I do not want to make personal comments as I am an honorable man.

........like I am a rocket scientist [8|]




Icarys -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 6:58:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

sexyred,

I am sorry words have meaning and that upsets you. A good submissive, submits. Other relationships can be great and have their own dynamic, but as soon as these limits or conditions are imposed they can't have the same complete dynamic that a relationship with complete trust and no limits has, thats all. Also, please don't be ignorant as to dare judge whether I love smart women. I do. The submission of a dumb woman also lacks meaning. You can disagree all you want with me, but do not question my honesty. After all, it is my honest about this issue that has caused me to be attacked.

desfib - no a good slave/sub will choose a man whose judgment is good and whose mistakes are in good faith. if you think a good slave/sub questions orders that she doesn;t think are thought through, that completely undermines the relationship.

When a person gives heartfelt submission it has value as well. Intelligent or not as you have put it.




sexyred1 -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 7:00:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg

ok sexyred,

since you obviously are reading carefully no more replies to you. I do not want to make personal comments as I am an honorable man, but you enjoy the ad hominem and avoiding the substance.
Good luck with whatever you are trying to find and a moron could tell you are upset.


LOL. Again, dude, not upset, just like to poke monkeys with a stick before enjoying my day.

You are right, I do read carefully. You just don't comprehend carefully or refuse to.

So yeah, no more replies to you, it is getting boring.

Good luck with the poly family.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 7:00:57 AM)

Icarys,

you are probably right about that and all submission has some real value, but I appreciate much more the submission of a brilliant woman. But, very fair point.




masterpdg -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 7:04:11 AM)

Enough time on this nonsense. As I said, good luck to all. I really am surprised I angered people, but some people like to get angry and nothing is more aggravating than the truth. I am not one of them and hope every one on here finds all the joy life has to offer.




jujubeeMB -> RE: Monogamy Agonistes (8/29/2010 7:05:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterpdg
Thats why it is silly to discuss such things as any sane person would not engage in what you describe. I am confused as to why a woman would want to limit her owner's pleasure through limits or want to turn romance into negotiation, but if that is what you desire that is fine for you.


Thank you for your response. Let's just talk about this point, since I think that's currently my biggest issue with your argument. When you say you are confused as to why a woman would want to limit her owner's pleasure through limits, what are you saying? Do you mean that she ought to say she has no limits and rely on her Dom to not do the things that she really doesn't want to do/can't handle, or do you mean that she ought to literally just not have limits?

For example, let's say a sub is absolutely terrified of/traumatized by needles, and her Dom really, really enjoys them. Are you saying that he should be able to use needles on her, or are you saying that his knowing that she can't handle needles will keep him from using them? Because there's a huge difference between the two, as I'm sure you can see.

Another example: let's say a sub is deeply, deeply hurt by and becomes despondent and disconnected emotionally when her Dom does anything with another woman. Her reaction isn't something she's planned, she would really love to be more open about it, but she isn't wired that way and his doing something with someone else shuts her down completely and eats away at the trust in their relationship. Do you think the Dom should continue to sleep with other women, or not? Now, in this scenario, she's not saying anything to him about what he can and can't do - she's left that completely in his hands - but it is ruining everything that is wonderful about her, psychologically. Should he continue to do as he wishes or take care of the psychological and emotional needs of his sub?




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