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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/9/2010 10:40:15 AM

brainiacsub

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I am not defending him. I'm just more than happy to call out Julia on her own hypocricy.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/9/2010 3:46:38 PM

Icarys

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Ya know Hawking's has switched his stance since "A Brief History of Time" and some of the things He's saying stating now as proof He's on the right track are off as far as I'm concerned.

He states that they've found another planet similar to earth that's orbiting a sun as proof that none of this was deliberate...If this is true then that would seem illogical wouldn't it? Is there a law of physics that says we won't have similar results?

As a matter of fact..Isn't it a well held belief by a number of scientists that there millions upon millions of potential planets just like earth that could be teeming with life?

He's a smart man no doubt but that doesn't make him right.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/9/2010 3:58:06 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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This isn't a question with an answer the most interesting kind.

Nobody likes those obvious facts where imagination plays no part. I don't see what the existence of others planets leads to one way or another except being proof that the earth definitely isn't the centre of the universe as told to us by certain texts. Then again we knew this already also.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 11:43:21 AM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

This isn't a question with an answer the most interesting kind.

Nobody likes those obvious facts where imagination plays no part. I don't see what the existence of others planets leads to one way or another except being proof that the earth definitely isn't the centre of the universe as told to us by certain texts. Then again we knew this already also.

What texts are you referring to? If so, as far as I know the bible doesn't state we are at the center of everything..At least nowhere I've ever read.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 11:53:33 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

He states that they've found another planet similar to earth that's orbiting a sun as proof that none of this was deliberate

Uhhhh, you want to find that in the book?

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 11:57:06 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

This isn't a question with an answer the most interesting kind.

Nobody likes those obvious facts where imagination plays no part. I don't see what the existence of others planets leads to one way or another except being proof that the earth definitely isn't the centre of the universe as told to us by certain texts. Then again we knew this already also.

It doesnt "prove" anything. What it does, and all Hawking actually says is that it demonstrates that the Earth isn't unique in its ability to support sentient/carbon based life. Its uniqueness was one of the arguments used to support the existence of a creator.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 12:00:55 PM

willbeurdaddy

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FR

Finished the book. Not very satisfying...it spends too much time on history and not enough time supporting that M-theory and multiverses are not just constructs to get around problems in the basic physics, they can be shown to be direct consequences of the basic physics.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 1:00:18 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Finished the book. Not very satisfying...it spends too much time on history and not enough time supporting that M-theory and multiverses are not just constructs to get around problems in the basic physics, they can be shown to be direct consequences of the basic physics.

I'll call Hawking's up and tell him you weren't very pleased with his book.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 1:04:44 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

This isn't a question with an answer the most interesting kind.

Nobody likes those obvious facts where imagination plays no part. I don't see what the existence of others planets leads to one way or another except being proof that the earth definitely isn't the centre of the universe as told to us by certain texts. Then again we knew this already also.

It doesnt "prove" anything. What it does, and all Hawking actually says is that it demonstrates that the Earth isn't unique in its ability to support sentient/carbon based life. Its uniqueness was one of the arguments used to support the existence of a creator.

I think anyone with at least a bit of sense understands something like that to be true. People who say things like that on either side are foolish...No matter how hard anyone tries, they'll never be able to prove the non-existence of God.

It's all about faith..either in him or not. I could say like I've said before that science to me proves it..for me it does..for others...maybe not.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/10/2010 8:13:42 PM

samboct

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" t's all about faith..either in him or not."

Umm, no. One of the things I've been trying to point out in this thread is what happens if we actually find God? While the universe is a big place, if the creator survived the big bang, he/she should be detectable. If detected- then no more faith needed for the existence of the creator. If not detected, then a number of possibilities are ruled out, but yes, non-detection does not equate to non-existence. But detection certainly answers a lot of questions....

Sam

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 8:10:25 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

" t's all about faith..either in him or not."

Umm, no. One of the things I've been trying to point out in this thread is what happens if we actually find God? While the universe is a big place, if the creator survived the big bang, he/she should be detectable. If detected- then no more faith needed for the existence of the creator. If not detected, then a number of possibilities are ruled out, but yes, non-detection does not equate to non-existence. But detection certainly answers a lot of questions....

Sam

He's just trying to resurrect the tired old saw that atheism requires faith just as theism does.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 1:00:48 PM

luckydawg

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Which thread ended when every alternative word to belief system offered up by the athiests to use instead of belief , was found to contain Belief in the definition.

Scientific Athiests, feel (believe) that thier method of viewing things has been Empiricaly Tested and Proved, as the only valid way. When it hasn't.

And they get very snotty when it is pointed out.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 4:29:55 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

" t's all about faith..either in him or not."

Umm, no. One of the things I've been trying to point out in this thread is what happens if we actually find God? While the universe is a big place, if the creator survived the big bang, he/she should be detectable. If detected- then no more faith needed for the existence of the creator. If not detected, then a number of possibilities are ruled out, but yes, non-detection does not equate to non-existence. But detection certainly answers a lot of questions....

Sam

Um yes since science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God..So anyone who doesn't believe is in fact taking part in faith.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 4:46:19 PM

samboct

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Well, sort of. I'm pretty adamant that the description of the Judeo Christian god is just plain wrong since as noted earlier, violates physical laws. So what am I? An atheist because I refuse to believe in a Judeo Christian god? Or an agnostic, because the question of a creator's existence hasn't been adequately answered- and may ultimately prove impossible to answer?

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 5:24:38 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Well, sort of. I'm pretty adamant that the description of the Judeo Christian god is just plain wrong since as noted earlier, violates physical laws. So what am I? An atheist because I refuse to believe in a Judeo Christian god? Or an agnostic, because the question of a creator's existence hasn't been adequately answered- and may ultimately prove impossible to answer?

Well if you are unsure then your just having trouble with faith..If say you are sure then you are exhibiting faith since we both are fairly sure there isn't going to be a new god detector created in a lab that works like your average radar detector..so we have nothing left to go on but faith. I'm confident that's how he wants it to work anyway..I don't think he wants it to be as easy as looking on facebook..Hey there he is! I knew it!

This is a little out there as a possibility..but he may have created the laws of physics..if he's able to make all that we see then what makes you think he can't bend them or even live outside of them if he chooses? :>

How can you be sure when you said yourself that he may not be detectable?

< Message edited by Icarys -- 9/11/2010 5:28:15 PM >

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 6:34:23 PM

samboct

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Whoa there Icarys.....

I'm not having trouble with faith- I just don't have any. I also don't consider this lack a problem.

In terms of a god detector- well, you're right, I don't think we're going to come up with one anytime soon.

However, in terms of the laws of physics....Anything that affects our world has to obey the laws of physics. Stepping outside the laws of physics also means outside reality- i.e. fantasy. In short, I don't see how anything can exist in a material sense outside of the laws of physics. If it does, then it can't affect our world.

Please note an important distinction. Outside of detector range is NOT synonymous with not detectable. If god exists, he/she can be detected, even if we haven't done so yet. However, what if the creator blew up in the big bang? An interesting echo of the Christ myth....

Cheers,

Sam

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 8:58:41 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Whoa there Icarys.....

I'm not having trouble with faith- I just don't have any. I also don't consider this lack a problem.

In terms of a god detector- well, you're right, I don't think we're going to come up with one anytime soon.

However, in terms of the laws of physics....Anything that affects our world has to obey the laws of physics. Stepping outside the laws of physics also means outside reality- i.e. fantasy. In short, I don't see how anything can exist in a material sense outside of the laws of physics. If it does, then it can't affect our world.

Please note an important distinction. Outside of detector range is NOT synonymous with not detectable. If god exists, he/she can be detected, even if we haven't done so yet. However, what if the creator blew up in the big bang? An interesting echo of the Christ myth....

Cheers,

Sam

Maybe he lives on another plane of existence...or a parallel universe. I have no idea..

I think though..If he were able to create all that we see and are yet to explore..We as humans might look like idiots trying to tell him just how he's suppose to interact in accordance to the laws of physics. Seeing he might have been the one to write their existence into being.. lol

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 9:29:42 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

" t's all about faith..either in him or not."

Umm, no. One of the things I've been trying to point out in this thread is what happens if we actually find God? While the universe is a big place, if the creator survived the big bang, he/she should be detectable. If detected- then no more faith needed for the existence of the creator. If not detected, then a number of possibilities are ruled out, but yes, non-detection does not equate to non-existence. But detection certainly answers a lot of questions....

Sam

Um yes since science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God..So anyone who doesn't believe is in fact taking part in faith.

wrong, and quite easily and clearly disputed in the other thread.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 9:56:08 PM

Icarys

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quote:

wrong, and quite easily and clearly disputed in the other thread.

Eh bullshit

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/11/2010 10:50:06 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Which thread ended when every alternative word to belief system offered up by the athiests to use instead of belief , was found to contain Belief in the definition.

Scientific Athiests, feel (believe) that thier method of viewing things has been Empiricaly Tested and Proved, as the only valid way. When it hasn't.

And they get very snotty when it is pointed out.

Actually I find it hilarious when people claim there is another way of knowing.

What do you call the person who appoaches every door and prays for it to open but takes no action? What about the one who treats each door as a unique experience unconnected to all previous doors? Those people are using non empirical methods to interact with the world and they are both clinically insane.

Every one use emprisicism every second of every day as the single and only method of interacting with reality. Scientists simply try to be more rigorous in the application.

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