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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 9:58:18 AM   
MastrVran


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I guess I don't interpret it the same way Vran. In fact, I just posted a dom's perspective on experience on a thread asking for sub's perspectives. I didn't feel like I was being rude though. I felt like I was expanding on the question and answer set. I myself generally find multiple viewpoints to things I post terribly interesting and I assume there's at least a chance other people will also. In addition, it is trivial to scan the threads and filter out just the responses you want.

I try not to derail threads... any threads... but I don't personally interpret posting an alternate viewpoint from the sample requested as being rude or disruptive.


There is nothing wrong with posting in other Venues threads. Nothing even WRONG with posting if someone asks you not to. I am talking about simple politeness as a trait we once had. Has the internet destroyed it? Are we unwilling to extend politeness online? And if so does this in some way lessen us? Perhaps it is just an extension of our lives offline? Are we losing the desire to be polite everywhere and this is but a symptom?

MV

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 9:59:28 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

Perhaps thats just me? And yes this is just my opinion. It is not a fact or written in stone lol. Just something I decided to comment on. Oh and everyone is asked to reply. Please feel free.


Could this post have come about because of the recent post in Ask A Master who state she wanted only Masters to answer and she would ignore anything from a submissive?  Did you notice her changing her tune when submissives did write to her and pointed out how ugly her attitude was?  Did you see her apologize for her attitude and begin to interact with the other submissives?   She learned something by not getting what she asked for that she could not have learned by getting her way.  Actually her post could have been answered much better in the Ask A Submissive forum.  If you want to find out how a group of people think, go to the source rather than ask an acquaintance of the source. 

How about the submissive who asked in the Ask A Master forum about how a woman should induce lactation?  As far as I know, not many men have lactated nor have the knowledge to answer that question.  Should the females on the forum have just ignored the question because it was asked of a Master? 

I do not see answering a question as being rude.  It is just answering a question.  Online forums give a person a chance to ask questions and get a variety of answers from a variety of people whose ideas might be very different from the poster.  That is the greatest asset of the forums.  The information, the ideas, the knowledge one can gain in these places is fantastic. 



(in reply to MastrVran)
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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:01:58 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
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I think it is rude and impolite how you keep injecting lol after every other word; your attempt to be dismissive is incredibly rude. How very domly of you.

I will not debate further with you since are incredibly impolite to answer the replies to your post with such a lack of politeness.

I find it amusing when someone stresses behaving one way and then acts the same as what they are complaining about. I also find it amusing when someone is unable to listen to the reality of honest replies and then takes a holier than thou approach when they DISLIKE the answers they receive.

You are total hypocrite. Deal with it.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 9/9/2010 10:03:12 AM >

(in reply to MastrVran)
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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:03:32 AM   
leadership527


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People behave poorly on the internet. ANY internet researcher knows this. Primarily, it is the anonymity and lack of personal consequence. I think I stopped expecting people to behave well in such an environment 2 days after electronic bulletin boards were invented. So I don't think the internet has destroyed it. I think our culture has moved away from politeness as an important concept to a small degree and then here on the internet that gets a lot, lot worse.

And no, it does not lessen me. Only I can lessen me. What other people do can reflect on them.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to MastrVran)
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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:08:02 AM   
WhipsAndGiggles


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(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:11:39 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

quote:

Perhaps thats just me? And yes this is just my opinion. It is not a fact or written in stone lol. Just something I decided to comment on. Oh and everyone is asked to reply. Please feel free.


Could this post have come about because of the recent post in Ask A Master who state she wanted only Masters to answer and she would ignore anything from a submissive?  Did you notice her changing her tune when submissives did write to her and pointed out how ugly her attitude was?  Did you see her apologize for her attitude and begin to interact with the other submissives?   She learned something by not getting what she asked for that she could not have learned by getting her way.  Actually her post could have been answered much better in the Ask A Submissive forum.  If you want to find out how a group of people think, go to the source rather than ask an acquaintance of the source. 

How about the submissive who asked in the Ask A Master forum about how a woman should induce lactation?  As far as I know, not many men have lactated nor have the knowledge to answer that question.  Should the females on the forum have just ignored the question because it was asked of a Master? 

I do not see answering a question as being rude.  It is just answering a question.  Online forums give a person a chance to ask questions and get a variety of answers from a variety of people whose ideas might be very different from the poster.  That is the greatest asset of the forums.  The information, the ideas, the knowledge one can gain in these places is fantastic. 





Thank you

I certainly did notice that. Yet if it turns out that doing something a different way was better or would have been better, does it invalidate a request to do it differently?

You cannot get around the idea that by posting against someones wishes becomes polite because your answer was better than the others. I know that the best answer is getting a variety to see and compare, weigh and discard, until you find the best answer for you. But that has nothing to do with the basic question of is it polite to ignore the request? Now, if you wish to use the old saying, The End Justifies the Means? Ok, that works. But then, that has been used by tyrants and people who feel politeness is worthless.

I know this is not something most will even consider as a valid point lol. I knew that going in. But I wanted to know or get a feel for just how far we have changed since my childhood when I was learning things like, be polite, have honor, do the "right thing" instead of do the allowed thing.

MV

(in reply to peppermint)
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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:12:45 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

I really find it qute amusing...A VERY high percentage of the people that use the forums agree that to practice their particular kink in public is wrong since it forces the public to be unwilling participants.  But it's amazing how many of them don't have any problem what-so-ever with injecting their unsolicited opinion into a thread that specifically requests only the opinion of a certain group. 


I really find it quite amusing that a VERY high percentage of the people that use the forums seem to think that imposing their moral standards on the participants is ok. You and the OP are confusing morality with the reality of where your words are being posted. Again, this is not your site or the OP's.

I also think that when someone comes in and specifically requests the opinion of a certain group, they automatically will get replies from everyone just to annoy them. Again, another facet of the unique nature of a public message board.


I'm not confusing anything...I simply made an observation that you want to argue with.  Can you deny that anything I said is true?  And what you say about people doing things just to annoy them is very true...which is part of what the OP mentioned about people being rude.  Damn...you fit he bill well.


I am allowed to argue with anything I want to argue with on a message board. I maintain my opinion just as you retain yours.

You think I am rude and I think the OP is rude. You are also rude for saying I fit the bill of being rude.

See how this works? :)

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:12:52 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I think it is rude and impolite how you keep injecting lol after every other word; your attempt to be dismissive is incredibly rude. How very domly of you.

I will not debate further with you since are incredibly impolite to answer the replies to your post with such a lack of politeness.

I find it amusing when someone stresses behaving one way and then acts the same as what they are complaining about. I also find it amusing when someone is unable to listen to the reality of honest replies and then takes a holier than thou approach when they DISLIKE the answers they receive.

You are total hypocrite. Deal with it.


Thank you.

MV

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:16:37 AM   
sexyred1


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You are most welcome.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:21:22 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipsAndGiggles




lol Now I like that reply.

MV

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:25:06 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

People behave poorly on the internet. ANY internet researcher knows this. Primarily, it is the anonymity and lack of personal consequence. I think I stopped expecting people to behave well in such an environment 2 days after electronic bulletin boards were invented. So I don't think the internet has destroyed it. I think our culture has moved away from politeness as an important concept to a small degree and then here on the internet that gets a lot, lot worse.

And no, it does not lessen me. Only I can lessen me. What other people do can reflect on them.


That too is my belief. Well said.

Maybe I am just hoping people might read this and consider it, realizing that by failing to be polite, even though everyone around them fails as well, that it still has an effect on them.

MV

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:53:43 AM   
Lockit


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Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
There have been many times when someone has demanded that only one group of people respond to a thread. I respected the request. Then there were many times when they came in roaring like some superior being in their own mind, slashing at another group and pushing their cyber weight around. Then I have rolled my eyes and watched, or I have jumped in with something I wished to impart or say because I had a response, right or wrong I don't care, but a response that I desired to give for a reason I felt worthy.

I feel that if you come to a place where people gather, in person or not and start a ruckus, with most often an agenda of starting a ruckus, people can walk away or join in. How they join in could be seen as right or wrong, reactionary or inflammatory, which could be seen as immature or something awful. Which right overrides the other, what is right and fair? Do we have to be right or fair in all situations? Do all situations matter?

In person I saw a man who was fighting with another man. Now from where I come from, you typically let the two men duke it out. Yet, when one man has chosen to walk away and the other comes behind him with a tree branch... I guess it is time for me to jump in there and I did. It wasn't my business, but at a certain point I feel it becomes my business.

There have been times when physical violence wasn't a factor and yet I felt emotional violence was a factor. The unfair bashing of people that might have a reaction to the things said as they were very out of line. In person or on a message board, whether they wanted input or not, I felt protective and being a part of the group allowed (funny word there) to speak, I spoke! I decide what is right and fair in my life and generally live my life so that I am seen as fair and wanting to do the right thing. Yet, there is a time when I feel no one can dictate what is allowed in their free expression by disallowing any reaction to it. Fuck them.

Because someone has the right to walk into a group of people and dictate what is expected, doesn't negate the rights of others to respond to it. It isn't respectful to start with, to limit what people are allowed to say in self expression.

Two of my favorite stories in life came about in defending someone a group felt wrong and because they had the right didn't mean I felt they had a right and I took my rights to defend someone who was the underdog and whom the majority felt they could harass day after day. When it happened in front of me, I went off. Because these fuckers were called on what they were doing and because I was so good at physically backing up what I thought right and willing to stand up to a crowd, those two young men became friends and were never harassed again. One was a boy who had polio as an infant and had disabilities and the other was a straight guy and damn fine looking, who they said was gay.

Right or wrong by the standards of whom? I will do what I do and either sleep at night or not and answer for myself. Someone imposing something, including me, will have to face their sleep pattern on their own, but to become anal about right and wrong about such little things as ego and right's of someone's self imposed right to impose something... naw, I am not losing any sleep over it.




_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 10:55:43 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

You cannot get around the idea that by posting against someones wishes becomes polite because your answer was better than the others.

I disagree. As has been said already, the OP is not the owner of the thread. By refraining from posting you are placing their desire for you not to post above the desire of other people who are reading the thread to hear all possible opinions. Why is placing the OP's desire first automatically the 'polite' thing to do? The OP is just another poster, and they may well be outnumbered by people who want the content of your post.

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.




(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:10:48 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

You cannot get around the idea that by posting against someones wishes becomes polite because your answer was better than the others.

I disagree. As has been said already, the OP is not the owner of the thread. By refraining from posting you are placing their desire for you not to post above the desire of other people who are reading the thread to hear all possible opinions. Why is placing the OP's desire first automatically the 'polite' thing to do? The OP is just another poster, and they may well be outnumbered by people who want the content of your post.


Ok, I can agree with this in principle. Now lets consider something better? Or perhaps more inline with more polite.

Assuming you feel as you do, and I think your veiw is a good one BTW, why could you not allow the OP their request and start a post of your own expressing your veiws? In this Forum we all have the right to start a thread. So how would starting your own thread as others often do when they do not want to hijack a thread, in anyway be a problem? Would that not allow the OP their own thread and get just the replies requested? And at the same time allow you to make all the points you would have made anyway? Is it too much trouble in someway to start a new thread?

Or is there some secret thread limit I am not aware of and we must keep threads down to some number. (joke)

MV

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:13:30 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
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It's not that I couldn't start a new thread Vran... it's just that I don't perceive the need. What's going on here is that your perception of politeness and mine aren't entirely aligned. In such cases, I find no problem drawing from the larger community standards which in this case are clear. God knows I don't post on such threads to be an ass. I try hard to avoid threads wherein my input is likely to be unhelpful (most threads on the mistress or gorean boards for instance and pretty much every thread involving some detailed kink).

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to MastrVran)
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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:25:21 AM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
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Sometimes people do start a new thread for the other perspective.

Personally, I just politely apologize for not being the target audience, give my perspective, get thanked 20% of the time for my contribution.
My advice in the "Dealing with someone chaotic and free spirited" topics is better than people I don't understand.

(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:27:22 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

Or is there some secret thread limit I am not aware of and we must keep threads down to some number. (joke)

Well you might think it a joke, but in reality there *is* an unspoken limit-to start an identical thread would be a much bigger violation of forum etiquette. Think about it: if one poster starts duplicate threads in different forums asking the same question but with a different request for answering viewpoints, the Mods delete all but one of the threads. Why should it be different if *two* people start identical threads?

It would be much ruder to the Mods (and to anyone who doesn't want to follow two threads on the same subject, but wants all the information in one place) if I were to follow your suggestion. Again, why are you placing politeness to the OP above politeness to the Mods and to other users?

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.




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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:34:44 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

There have been many times when someone has demanded that only one group of people respond to a thread. I respected the request. Then there were many times when they came in roaring like some superior being in their own mind, slashing at another group and pushing their cyber weight around. Then I have rolled my eyes and watched, or I have jumped in with something I wished to impart or say because I had a response, right or wrong I don't care, but a response that I desired to give for a reason I felt worthy.


Reasonable.


quote:


I feel that if you come to a place where people gather, in person or not and start a ruckus, with most often an agenda of starting a ruckus, people can walk away or join in. How they join in could be seen as right or wrong, reactionary or inflammatory, which could be seen as immature or something awful. Which right overrides the other, what is right and fair? Do we have to be right or fair in all situations? Do all situations matter?


Depends on what you mean by right or fair. Now should we always be polite. Perhaps as Patrick Swaze said in Roadhouse, You are to be Polite until I decide not to be Polite. At times, it becomes impossible to be Polite when others make politeness impossible by their actions. Yet a simple request is not polite or impolite. Its asking for something specific. Now it could possibly be impolite if it is phrased using derogatory words or comments. But that then negates politemess.

quote:


In person I saw a man who was fighting with another man. Now from where I come from, you typically let the two men duke it out. Yet, when one man has chosen to walk away and the other comes behind him with a tree branch... I guess it is time for me to jump in there and I did. It wasn't my business, but at a certain point I feel it becomes my business.


Interesting story and it deals with you acting "in the right" to protect someone. Would your story be right though if one guy just beat the crap out of that other guy and was about to kill him and as a last ditch effort the other guy managed to grab a branch on the ground, was about to knock the guy beating him to death off him and you stepped on the branch? Its all in what is happening at times that define right or wrong.

quote:


There have been times when physical violence wasn't a factor and yet I felt emotional violence was a factor. The unfair bashing of people that might have a reaction to the things said as they were very out of line. In person or on a message board, whether they wanted input or not, I felt protective and being a part of the group allowed (funny word there) to speak, I spoke! I decide what is right and fair in my life and generally live my life so that I am seen as fair and wanting to do the right thing. Yet, there is a time when I feel no one can dictate what is allowed in their free expression by disallowing any reaction to it. Fuck them.


When people ask for politeness or make requests to abuse or misues something or someone, they have violated any right to politeness. If though at the start thay make a simple request, and post something reasonable hoping for one type of response, being polite should not be an issue or a problem.

quote:


Because someone has the right to walk into a group of people and dictate what is expected, doesn't negate the rights of others to respond to it. It isn't respectful to start with, to limit what people are allowed to say in self expression.


Well now here I disagree in that asking for a type of response is not in and of itself disrespectful. Any more than asking a specific question is disrespectful.

quote:


Two of my favorite stories in life came about in defending someone a group felt wrong and because they had the right didn't mean I felt they had a right and I took my rights to defend someone who was the underdog and whom the majority felt they could harass day after day. When it happened in front of me, I went off. Because these fuckers were called on what they were doing and because I was so good at physically backing up what I thought right and willing to stand up to a crowd, those two young men became friends and were never harassed again. One was a boy who had polio as an infant and had disabilities and the other was a straight guy and damn fine looking, who they said was gay.

Right or wrong by the standards of whom? I will do what I do and either sleep at night or not and answer for myself. Someone imposing something, including me, will have to face their sleep pattern on their own, but to become anal about right and wrong about such little things as ego and right's of someone's self imposed right to impose something... naw, I am not losing any sleep over it.


Here you seem as usual to be acting in good ways as most would feel. Yet comparing people assaulting or attacking others and someone asking for certain types of replies just is not comparable. However since this is just about politeness, I would not expect you to lose any sleep either way.

MV



(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:36:52 AM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Again, why are you placing politeness to the OP above politeness to the Mods and to other users?


I agree with this.

OP, while we're being considerate, I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been polite to make your point in 1-2 sentences instead of that wall of text.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Having the right vs being in the right (Rant) - 9/9/2010 11:38:23 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Or is there some secret thread limit I am not aware of and we must keep threads down to some number. (joke)


Actually multiple threads on the same topic in different forums is against TOS. (not a joke)


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 40
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