RE: This is what made me pro-mosque

RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 5:17:15 AM)
We've already had that one, mate. It seems limpwrist thinks it isn't a valid comparison. There are far more instances of mosques commemorating victories over Judaism than over Christianity, but that seems to have been unaddressed in this thread. Presumably nobody in New York gives a shit about that. It isn't like there's a Jewish community there, or anything, is it?

Archer -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 5:43:17 AM)
L&M What a crock, My original statement included that it was a practice that Christians used as well, but in the rush to call "bigot" some folks ignored that point. Post 72 "The idea that this couldn't be considered a "victory mosque" ignores centuries of history in which mosques have been erected in the locations of Muslim "victories". Not too unlike Christian history of churches and holidays being built on top of pagan holidays and sacred sites."... Politesub your holding to my exact words versus the idea expressed wins a point and loses one. The distinction between building on top of the physical foundation after destroying a building and converting by extensive remodeling (such as the case in Hagia Sophia) while fair point when holding someone to exact verbage ignores that the church was in fact converted. It was a church but it isn't now. Today it would be considered a war crime.

Moonhead -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 8:58:15 AM)
I doubt that it would, really. War crime trials seem to be out of fashion these days.

Politesub53 -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:22:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer L&M What a crock, My original statement included that it was a practice that Christians used as well, but in the rush to call "bigot" some folks ignored that point. Post 72 "The idea that this couldn't be considered a "victory mosque" ignores centuries of history in which mosques have been erected in the locations of Muslim "victories". Not too unlike Christian history of churches and holidays being built on top of pagan holidays and sacred sites."... Politesub your holding to my exact words versus the idea expressed wins a point and loses one. The distinction between building on top of the physical foundation after destroying a building and converting by extensive remodeling (such as the case in Hagia Sophia) while fair point when holding someone to exact verbage ignores that the church was in fact converted. It was a church but it isn't now. Today it would be considered a war crime. I passed comment on what you typed, if you meant otherwise thats not my fault. As for the conversion of Hagia Sophia, the extensions took place over centuries, as did those at Cordoba. You would be hard pressed to get anyone convicted of that as a war crime, even today.

luckydawg -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:31:24 PM)
In 1453 Sultan Mehmed laid siege to Constantinople, driven in part by a desire to convert the city to Islam. [12] The Sultan promised his troops three days of unbridled pillage if the city fell, after which he would claim its contents himself. [13] [14]. The Hagia Sophia was not exempted from the pillage, becoming its focal point as the invaders believed it to contain the greatest treasures of the city.[15] Shortly after the city’s defenses collapsed, pillagers made their way to the Hagia Sophia and battered down its doors. [16] Throughout the siege the Holy Liturgy and Prayer of the Hours were performed at the Hagia Sophia, and the church formed a refuge for many of those who were unable to contribute to the city’s defense.[17] [18] Trapped in the church, congregants and refugees became booty to be divided amongst the invaders. The building was desecrated and looted, and occupants enslaved or slaughtered;[15] a few of the elderly and infirm were killed, and the remainder chained.[16] Priests purportedly continued to perform Christian rites until stopped by the invaders.[16] When the Sultan and his cohort entered the church, one of the Ulama climbed the pulpit and recited the Shahada, transforming at once the church into a mosque.[19]. Immediately after the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453, the Hagia Sophia was converted into the Ayasofya Mosque.[6] The conversion from Hagai Sophia to Ayasofya Mosque was virtually instant. And very violent. You really don't see any war crimes in that event? Maybe you should get your glasses checked ....

mnottertail -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:34:29 PM)
tu quoque to this whole fuckoree, right? http://freetruth.50webs.org/A1.htm http://www.regia.org/convert.htm http://digital.lib.lehigh.edu/trial/justification/papacy/essay/

Moonhead -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:39:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg In 1453 Sultan Mehmed laid siege to Constantinople, driven in part by a desire to convert the city to Islam. [12] The Sultan promised his troops three days of unbridled pillage if the city fell, after which he would claim its contents himself. [13] [14]. The Hagia Sophia was not exempted from the pillage, becoming its focal point as the invaders believed it to contain the greatest treasures of the city.[15] Shortly after the city’s defenses collapsed, pillagers made their way to the Hagia Sophia and battered down its doors. [16] Throughout the siege the Holy Liturgy and Prayer of the Hours were performed at the Hagia Sophia, and the church formed a refuge for many of those who were unable to contribute to the city’s defense.[17] [18] Trapped in the church, congregants and refugees became booty to be divided amongst the invaders. The building was desecrated and looted, and occupants enslaved or slaughtered;[15] a few of the elderly and infirm were killed, and the remainder chained.[16] Priests purportedly continued to perform Christian rites until stopped by the invaders.[16] When the Sultan and his cohort entered the church, one of the Ulama climbed the pulpit and recited the Shahada, transforming at once the church into a mosque.[19]. Immediately after the Ottoman Turks conquered Constantinople in 1453, the Hagia Sophia was converted into the Ayasofya Mosque.[6] The conversion from Hagai Sophia to Ayasofya Mosque was virtually instant. And very violent. You really don't see any war crimes in that event? Maybe you should get your glasses checked .... There's no war crimes in invading a country and forcibly converting it from a Sunni to a Shi'ite state. Why should that be any different?

Politesub53 -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:42:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg The conversion from Hagai Sophia to Ayasofya Mosque was virtually instant. And very violent. You really don't see any war crimes in that event? Maybe you should get your glasses checked .... Thats right Lucky, keep on with the selective replies. Did you even read my words or my link re the Muslim conquest of Constantinople. Any fool knows war is violent and that rape and pillage take place, even you. You do know Christians did exactly the same, right ? Im clearly talking about the conversion of the Church into a Mosque. So I wear glasses to correct my eyesight, what do you use to correct your stupidity ?

luckydawg -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:42:54 PM)
So some folks like to change the subject instead of honestly debating. What does a decree from a differnt church centuries later have to do with anything?

mnottertail -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:47:22 PM)
what decree? I posted alot more than that, the slaughter of non-christians, the overthrow of temples of non-christians and so on by christians. and I was talking generally in terms of the tu quoque, here on this thread. don't assume you're central to my universe, you so ain't.

Moonhead -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:49:22 PM)
Well if that is a drift off topic, perhaps you could explain when it was the armies of Islam invaded New York and forcibly converted all of those infidels they didn't just put to the sword, which would be necessary to make this community centre/mosque/pork butcher/whatever a no messing Victory Mosque?

luckydawg -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:50:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg The conversion from Hagai Sophia to Ayasofya Mosque was virtually instant. And very violent. You really don't see any war crimes in that event? Maybe you should get your glasses checked .... Thats right Lucky, keep on with the selective replies. Did you even read my words or my link re the Muslim conquest of Constantinople. Any fool knows war is violent and that rape and pillage take place, even you. You do know Christians did exactly the same, right ? Im clearly talking about the conversion of the Church into a Mosque. So I wear glasses to correct my eyesight, what do you use to correct your stupidity ? And you are claiming that the converion took centuries, which is bullshit. It was violent and virtually instant. Not centuries, a few day of pillage, adn then a ceremony. With the blood of the slaughtered Chirsitians still on the floor of the place. Hagia Sophia no longer existed. Remember you are claiming it wasn't a victory Mosque.

luckydawg -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:54:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Well if that is a drift off topic, perhaps you could explain when it was the armies of Islam invaded New York and forcibly converted all of those infidels they didn't just put to the sword, which would be necessary to make this community centre/mosque/pork butcher/whatever a no messing Victory Mosque? I don't believe you or anyone has put forward proof that only an event like the fall of Cnstantinople produces victory Mosques. So untill you show that, your post is meaningless nonsense. Just someone shitting on a thread.

Moonhead -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:57:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Well if that is a drift off topic, perhaps you could explain when it was the armies of Islam invaded New York and forcibly converted all of those infidels they didn't just put to the sword, which would be necessary to make this community centre/mosque/pork butcher/whatever a no messing Victory Mosque? I don't believe you or anyone has put forward proof that only an event like the fall of Cnstantinople produces victory Mosques. So untill you show that, your post is meaningless nonsense. Just someone shitting on a thread. If you can't provide a working definition of a victory mosque to justify claiming that a community centre built by a different bunch of muslims than the ones who did the attack in 2001 qualifies, arguing about other people failing to do it for will just make you look like a petulant idiot, I'm afraid.

luckydawg -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 1:58:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail what decree? I posted alot more than that, the slaughter of non-christians, the overthrow of temples of non-christians and so on by christians. and I was talking generally in terms of the tu quoque, here on this thread. don't assume you're central to my universe, you so ain't. Then why are you talking to me? And does the event of a different religion centuries later have to do with anything? Of course some Christians have been violent. I guess some folks can't actually keep up with the points, kind of funny really.

mnottertail -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 2:03:00 PM)
yes, I see that you are having trouble keeping up with the talking points, thank you for being so kind as to accept that fact. what does your post have to do with some battle some years prior that nothing to do with mosques today? or are you like way, way, way behind the talking points again?

luckydawg -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 2:10:53 PM)
yeahhhh.....? I do love the childlike mimmicing thing.... It becomes you.

mnottertail -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 2:15:51 PM)
thanks, when dealing with children, you talk as a child, so that's what I will do to you, since you can understand it, glad you are up to speed on that, but again, exactly what does your stunted emotional development have to do with mosques and pro or anti?

Moonhead -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 2:17:31 PM)
Maybe he feels that if he acts infantile enough, he'll gain an understanding of Osama bin Laden?

mnottertail -> RE: This is what made me pro-mosque (9/15/2010 2:18:55 PM)
diapers were on his HEAD though. You of all people should have thought about that, MOONh----. LOL.

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