RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/21/2010 9:19:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx


If the shades are too grey, you're probably not ready.

Jeff


Hmmmm... I could say that the reason you are still looking for that life long submissive lady is that your expectations are all wrong...

But who am I to say such a thing? I don't know you or your life or why your relationships have failed... just like you have not a clue what I am or I am not ready for...

I am ready for the RIGHT person who respects healthy boundaries and feels my submission is something worth cultivating instead of demanding without even a date.



Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/21/2010 9:26:04 PM)

Practice makes perfect they say. If you take enough steps in  the right direction your bound to get where you want..If your spending that time looking for different paths than the one you say you desire..Well it's not hard to figure out where your going to end up.

I get way more than most of you seem to understand about yourselves...All of those little catch phrases you ladies use are little more than excuses for retaining control. If it's taking you years to get to a point of relaxing with someone you obviously were not ready to begin with..Now we could blame it on the other person and who knows maybe we're right at least partly. You never truly know a person right...? I've heard that said so many times on here. Yet most of you I think are keeping that potential relationship at a distance because you have insecurities..which may be just as much your on personal problems as it is about trusting others.

Your either in the right frame of mind or your not and I really think most of you aren't. Relationships take a certain amount of willingness to take a chance. Running at the first signs of trouble reinforces your fears.



juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/21/2010 10:29:21 PM)

Having been involved in a power exchange relationship for more than a couple of months, it did not take me "years" to trust him.[8|] In fact because he was the right person for me at that time, it took about 5 months over the phone, and the instant I looked into his eyes and saw the person I had been talking to and he had that "thing" that sparked my submissiveness

Now, that doesn't happen with everyone, and I would be a fool to think it would. I seek a similar chemistry, and I am very picky. Dominance styles vary, and I know the kind that works for me, and I need someone who exhibits a certain sort of dominance before I am "feeling" it. Since I live in a large metro area, it means the men I am interested in are local, which means I am not going to talk to them for 5 months before meeting them and feel that level of connection in knowing what they are looking for, and if I am it. That means I "date", and since it takes more than one date to get to know someone, that means I need to date them more than once. I am busy, the men I am into usually have busy lives... which means we have to make time to date. Modern life means I have to pay my bills and keep afloat, and it means they have to do the same. Anyone who had so much time upfront to invest in a relationship with me that they could bypass the normal courtship process would probably not have the level of ambition and success that I enjoy in a mate..




Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/21/2010 10:33:01 PM)

Poorly.


My x used to tell me to do things when we chatted online like go get the hotsauce and come back, just to see if I would do it, with out questioning him, and I always with out fail, failed. I'm not the sort to do something cause you said so, I want to know why, and what's your motivation, and what are you up to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DisenchantedLife
I am most interested on how others coped with a change similar to mine.

Thx





NuevaVida -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/21/2010 10:39:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

If the shades are too grey, you're probably not ready.




I would never be ready to submit to someone I've only known for 10 minutes.  I value myself far too much for that, and have become extremely careful with who I give myself to.  I need to really know the man first, so I know I actually like him, and that our moral compasses are aligned, and that we have enough in common to sustain us long term.

But then we're all different.  It took me about 3 months to even begin to relinquish authority to my owner, who was nowhere near being my owner yet at that point.  All we both knew is that we were enjoying getting to know each other, and that neither of us was in any hurry to see how things unfolded, naturally, on their own.  A year & a half later, we have a solid foundation we can both rely on, and just absolutely adore each other, because our personalities mesh and because we took the time to create a love-based foundation.  That was a shared priority between us.  We couldn't have gotten there in 10 minutes.  For me, submitting in 10 minutes would mean I really didn't value him, I just needed a warm male body to submit to.  There's no substance in that for me.

For you to say someone who needs awhile is "probably not ready," well, ok, but you're wrong.  Maybe not ready for your brand of D/s, but then someone like me never would be.  I only address this because of your inaccurate blanket statement, above.

As for the OP, obeying only became simple for me when I really began understanding where he was coming from, because only then could I trust the kind of man he is, and therefore trust him with having authority over my life.  We are all unique individuals with our own time frames for when things begin to work for us.  Walls and self protective measures do not usually come down quickly. Especially when you've had to reclaim ownership of yourself, and learned that you can manage yourself quite well.  That was the case with me, and it took me awhile to be able to start letting go of my "self-ownership."

For me, patience has truly been a virtue, as it has allowed us to move forward at an "unforced" pace.  We're still not under the same roof, and we are in no hurry for that, either.  All in due time.



juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/21/2010 10:45:55 PM)

quote:

We couldn't have gotten there in 10 minutes.  For me, submitting in 10 minutes would mean I really didn't value him, I just needed a warm male body to submit to.  There's no substance in that for me.


This, I also think, "what sort of man wanted a submissive that would submit that quickly?" I mean, think about it, if I was that easy for them, could they trust me to be loyal?


quote:

As for the OP, obeying only became simple for me when I really began understanding where he was coming from, because only then could I trust the kind of man he is, and therefore trust him with having authority over my life. We are all unique individuals with our own time frames for when things begin to work for us. Walls and self protective measures do not usually come down quickly. Especially when you've had to reclaim ownership of yourself, and learned that you can manage yourself quite well. That was the case with me, and it took me awhile to be able to start letting go of my "self-ownership."


I think this is what I was trying to say, even with trust, etc, sometimes obeying is challenging if it is something extraordinarily hard to do. Sometimes we can try and try to do something that we find so challenging that we just fail. Our failures are learning opportunities. I need a man who accepts I fail at times, and is forgiving of it.... Lord knows there will come a time he needs mine....the nature of relationships is that everyone screws up eventually.



DisenchantedLife -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 5:10:59 AM)

Thank you all for your words. I enjoyed reading everyones perspective. I have know my Dom for 6 years and we do have a bit of history. The last 3 years we have gone our own way. He does know excatly what he's getting into with me. He likes to joke he sometimes knows me better than myself. (which I hate hearing). He is patient. I have yet to get "in trouble" for any of this. Well, the argueing and when my temper lets loose - that doesnt go well. Other than him asking me why I'm cussing/yelling and his frustration with me for doing so, thats about it.

I know many can not do the "micromanagement" thing and I probably cant either. Thats not what he's going for here. We're supposed to be slowly working towards TPE and slavery and all that jazz. I personally would have gone a longer route towards it. Probably have gone a visit here, a weekend there - not moving in together and him starting to take control over everything in my house. (But circumstances and out sides forces created this path) And who knows, perhaps in the long run it will have been for the best.

I do appreciate everyone validating my struggle. Makes it seem not so strange. Personally, I can not switch back and forth that easy. As some one said, I can not go from one extreme to another.

I do think i'm doing better. I haven't dropped a 6 foot of space between us because things are bugging me badly. I havent lost my temper/started cussing and I am consciously trying to follow the rules. We're actually starting to get closer. Which is good. It would help, if I things could be easier in the whole Obeying area.



mstrjx -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 5:28:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx


If the shades are too grey, you're probably not ready.

Jeff


Hmmmm... I could say that the reason you are still looking for that life long submissive lady is that your expectations are all wrong...

But who am I to say such a thing? I don't know you or your life or why your relationships have failed... just like you have not a clue what I am or I am not ready for...

I am ready for the RIGHT person who respects healthy boundaries and feels my submission is something worth cultivating instead of demanding without even a date.

Like I said before, Julia, my views are not directed towards anyone in particular in a critical way, least of all you.

I have seemingly become a caricature and that is unacceptable to me. The 'simpler times' have passed once the baggage reaches a certain point.

Jeff



daddysprop247 -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 7:06:05 AM)

i've always been fascinated by people who struggle with submission and obedience like the OP. i wonder if D/s is a welcome escape/relief from their "real" lives, or whether it's a a reluctant homecoming. because life and living itself are difficult enough...submission shouldn't have to be.

but then it seems my journey started out very differently than most. obedience has always come very naturally to me, to the point where at times it was detrimental to my own well-being. but that was part of the burden i carried as a lone submissive, with no Leader or Protector. but at least i was in a place and state of mind where i was open and willing to be taught, to learn, to explore, to grow.

julia says what sort of man would want a submissive who submits so quickly...well perhaps the sort of man who needs and desires a woman who submits because it is first and foremost her very nature to do so, and not because she is internally battling and analyzing within herself before consciously choosing to do so. i could submit to any man, yes...but i chose only one man to be my Master. and for him my instinctive submission and immediate obedience, which he noticed during our very first meeting in all those mundane, minute interactions from my sitting where he told me to sit, to ceasing to nervously bite my nails when he told me to do so...little things that were completely unnoticed by me because that was just the normal way i interacted in the world, but to him hinted at something rare and precious. unfortunately it took far too long for me to really and truly believe that i was something special, with something amazing to offer, because all my life i had taken the beliefs of those like julia as gospel truth, and felt myself worthless and undesirable. luckily for me, he has never been one to give up easily. [:)]

and to the OP i would only say that even when obedience itself is "easy," or rather, it comes naturally without hesitation or questioning...there will always be times when the carrying out of a directive is going to be difficult. i may not hesitate to obey, but i may sometimes obey with great anxiety or even fear. and what gets me through those moments are two things: acceptance of my place and role, and faith in the man i chose to give myself to. because of those things i know that however difficult something may be, at the other end it is going to be okay.








sexyred1 -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 7:19:02 AM)

As the replies in this thread demonstrate, there is absolutely no one size fits all when it comes to submission. There is nothing wrong in being able to submit quickly if that is your inherent nature.

And there is nothing wrong in taking your time because you don't take your submission for granted, you would like to find someone who appreciates the essential YOU and your submission, and you have standards of behavior that you need from someone to prove trustworthy.

For those who stated that women who just don't jump into submission with every relationship are insecure, don't know what they want or are in the wrong frame of mind to have a relationship, I suggest that they are full of crap and they have added nothing to to the topic.



daintydimples -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 7:29:20 AM)

I cannot be micromanaged. That would piss me off to the point I would shut down emotionally and be useless as a relationship partner. I do not need to be told what to do on a day to day basis. I have certain things I am responsible for, I take care of them.

The obedience dynamic in my relationship only comes into play (aside from sex) when we have a mutual task or set of tasks to perform. For example, we are planning a trip to Seattle. We both have things we need to get done for this trip. That I will do my part goes without question. And like a good personal assistant, I will remind him of the things he needs to do. I will also follow his guidelines as to the packing: "Expect cool, rainy weather, don't pack too much, as it's only five days and clothing needs will be casual."  

I don't struggle with being obedient to him, but I think this is because we have an understanding. I am allowed to question any order he gives me, and if I think he's wrong, I am expected to give my input. Of course, at the end of the day, I have agreed he is in charge, so I do what he (ultimately) says.

I don't think this has anything to do with me being "ready," or being some uber sub type. I think it has to do with being a very good match.



DesFIP -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 8:50:23 AM)

I wouldn't have picked someone who wanted to micromanage me. Organize my fridge? For what compelling reason?
The most he does is go in and get a bottle of cold water out. So why would demanding the eggs move from the far left of the second shelf to the middle of the bottom do anything except make it more difficult for me to cook. Unless it's just sadism, make it impossible for me to cook easily and then have an excuse to punish me, and I'm not interested in that on any level.

The other thing is two months is nothing. We were ldr two years and I just began to put down my walls. Lived together for another two before he got into deep level of control. It took that long for things to happen organically that he had to knee jerk respond to which allowed me to see that what he said about himself was what he really did. Because most people I know have a disconnect between who they really are and who they believe themselves to be.



mnottertail -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 8:51:45 AM)

reorg the fridge to make it easier and quicker for you to make me a sammitch, bitch!!!!

no, I said, how many beers do I have left?



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 9:18:56 AM)

fast reply

For me, at the ripe old age of 48, I sometimes think I have gotten so used to being alone and making no adjustments for anyone else, that giving that up would be too much.  The past 4 years are the first in my life that I have been totally independant.

Then, a day later, I will think it would do me good and help me become even more content to give that control to someone else.  It seems like it would be a relief and load off my mind and shoulders.  As much fun as it is making all the decisions, I am smart enough to know I don't always make the one that is absolutely best for me.

I just think that, with the comfort of "maturity" also comes some distrust and jadedness, for no other reason that the things you see in several decades.  And I am good with that 99% of the time.  I do believe that it will happen when it is meant to be and it will be right and easy and just flow.

Then I read something about clean the fridge bitch and wonder what I woulda been ordered to do with the produce. 

What was the question?




littlewonder -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 3:40:43 PM)

I admit I submitted to Master the moment I saw him walking in front of me the first time we ever met. I found him so incredibly dominant just by the way he walked and was poised that I just couldn't help myself. I've been submitting to him ever since.

10 minutes? Ppfftt.



leadership527 -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 3:51:38 PM)

quote:

DisenchantedLife said:
Obeying should be as simple as 1, 2, 3. Dom says do and since we are submissive, by nature or desire - we do. Its what we’re here for so it should be easy peasy.
Sheez, who told you THAT? Carol, as I've oft-posted, is submissive by nature. She submits to me. She submits to her coworkers. She submits to random strangers on the street she doesn't even know.

But all that that gives her is an innate desire to please as opposed to confront. It's easy enough when the submission in question is also easy, eg: "where should we go to lunch?" (her answer to anyone, "Wherever you'd like."). However, I have substantially higher standards than that. I push her in ways that are uncomfortable or worse for her. I cause her to have to mold herself to me and you can bet that somewhere among our personalities are some places that just don't line up well.

I have set a high bar in our relationship and like all high bars, getting over it isn't easy -- for either of us... and that bar continues to get raised. If I wanted "easy" or "safe" or any other such word, we'd still be vanilla.

Just as a reference point (not that our situation can be equated to yours), Carol and I had been living together for 12 years. Then I collared her. That's been another 3 years. So now here at the 3 year mark with another 12 very good years as foundation, she STILL has not given over all the control I'd like... primarily because I keep finding new areas that I'd like to control.... and I want smoother control over the areas I already had control. As I said, the bar keeps getting higher -- on purpose. So we aren't done yet. I'm not expecting to be done any time soon... with any luck, never.

How are we handling the handover of authority? We're handling it as a team... togehter.... two people with a shared vision & goal overcoming the obstacles one at a time as they come up. Sometimes it's me doing the heavy lifting. Sometimes her. Sometimes I've been leading. Other times, I've given up and she led. There's been no rhyme nor reason to it. It certainly doesn't fit any of the nice, tidy little stereotypes. It's just the two of us muddling along trying to be as happy as we can.



CaringandReal -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 5:56:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Two months is very early.


And here I'm thinking 10 minutes is about all it really needs to take.

You think I'm kidding.

I know I handle my 'situations' a little differently than others, but the relationships I've had with my partners tend to be a little closer-knit than where two months is borderline unreasonable.

I understand my relevance is waning quickly, but I thought the above needed to be said.

Jeff


It depends a lot on the people and their circumstances. Coming off of commando mode, as she is, and instantly submitting isn't easy--especially if you needed to be the way you were to survive. I kind of like her pattern: she's having her difficulties with control right now, at the start. Most partnered submissives whose real lives I've known anything about, are prefect little sweethearts for the first year or so, and then get rebellious, disillusioned, rankly disobedient, several years down the road--when one would think they would know better. It's harder for both people to deal with at that later time because certain patterns of behaving and certain expectations are quite strong.



porcelaine -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 6:17:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DisenchantedLife

So, from everything I've read and heard over the years here on CM and else where. Obeying should be as simple as 1, 2, 3. Dom says do and since we are submissive, by nature or desire - we do. Its what we’re here for so it should be easy peasy. Its not.


Greetings DisenchantedLife,

I do not agree with the above comment. In my opinion some measure of difficulty is to be expected. Whether the submissive is able to move beyond the reasons she associates with the struggle to unearth its true root is up to the individual. Oftentimes we're wrestling with ourselves - fears and internal resistance that manifest because we're afraid of losing something or being in a state of vulnerability that leaves us open and exposed. Surmounting the emotions is dependent on the wisdom and proficiency of the dominant and his ability to guide the submissive to a positive response and inevitable acceptance of what he desires.

This is not to say that the feelings of discomfort will become obsolete. However, through a willingness to give unconditionally for a cause outside of ones desires, you're able to transmute the negative into a life affirming metamorphosis. When you focus on yourself or direct your attention to the other party without acknowledging the third entity - the shared union - it will inevitably remain grounded and miss the evolutionary growth waiting in the wings.

As such, look upon the situation as how it benefits you collectively rather than you or him individually. And when you encounter moments where obedience proves difficult, look for the opportunity to give rather than the defense mechanism that compels you to hold back or protect yourself instead. When you begin to view your partnership as a vehicle for unconditional giving that enrich both participants, obedience is no longer a barrier but a bridge for a deepened state of togetherness.

Namaste,

~porcelaine



CaringandReal -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 6:29:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
All of those little catch phrases you ladies use are little more than excuses for retaining control.


LOL! You've got us sussed? :D Ok, I'll bite. What catch-phrases do you mean? Do you mean like the Disenchanted's "Obeying should be as simple as 1,2,3... but it's not?" Some examples, please.




Zevar -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/22/2010 7:44:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar

Obeying is likened to the harvest of submission and the beauty of surrender.

Take care!



In reading the various entries in this thread I originally replied with the above quoted comment. I do believe my words to be true, as I have experienced submission in a manner that fits my quoted words.

I recall prior to My beloved Companion passing how she would yield to me in a most natural beautiful manner. I recall when she originally met me, we were in a public setting, actually a meeting and she walked into the room, noticed me and stood next to me as all of the seats were taken. I offered her my chair. She chose to sit on the floor near my feet.

Thereafter and from then on as she and I became familiar with one another her submission was given in the same manner. I recall her telling me that it felt natural to submit to me. There was not much talk about when or how she was to submit. Instead her submission was willingly yet gradually expressed on her terms that I willingly inspired according to her.

One expression of submission at a time was the natural course of action between she and I. Each expression of her submission accumulated into a bond of trust between she and I that was strong as steel yet tender as petals on a single rose. Over the years of our relating each gradual expression of submission imprinted within my heart and soul an unrelenting love for her that remains even though she has passed.

Submission in the manner that I experienced indeed is not capable of being duplicated as each woman is an individual. However I do believe that submission is a quality that each woman defines for herself. It just so happened that the special lady that became mine had defined her submission and what she was looking for prior to choosing to kneel at my feet that evening in that public meeting that I will forever remember.

Take care!



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