RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1

RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 11:30:41 AM)
quote: More importantly, you do the op an injustice. She came asking for help, and you've pretty much told her because it isn't easy for her that she isn't a twue submittive and ought to abandon her relationship. And for that, you owe her an apology. You have been the antithesis of helpful. That was some of the trouble I have had with some of the commentary on this thread... I really respect that people have different views on the type of submissive that suits them.... some dominant men only hook up with dominant women for relationships, and have submisssives on the side... there is nothing wrong with what suits people individually. It is the projection that if someone has trouble with a certain partner, or a certain task, or a certain expectation that this person is unfit for all others.... Like NV said, what one dominant may find trying and unacceptable might be perfect for another dominant. All of this posting about how unsubmissive it is to have trouble obeying all of the time isn't helpful to the person who is having this trouble, and may have very valid issues with obeying that need to be addressed for health, safety, and emotional well being... we aren't in her skin, so how do we know?

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 11:31:35 AM)
quote: You must be bitter and negative since it is the only explanation for the personal attacks you throw around to women on the boards. You must be emotional because no one with any class would resort to the name calling and low blows you attempt to insult those who disagree with you. Try taking a look at your body of posts and see if I am not correct. Your bitterness spews out in your words and attitude. However, I am sure you will not see your own behavior for what it is. Calling other people's views bullshit is a sign of immaturity. Any time anyone states an opinion, whether you agree with it or not, you personally attack them. You are unable to debate intelligently. To be true I've had it out with Men as well and your just as guilty because all I've done is mimic what a particular person has done. You get personal I get personal..You trounce someone who has a different view than yours..I trounce you. If you and others would treat people like you say you do..I wouldn't do what I do and who knows..We might become friends...or not. People don't do that though. Some person comes on here posting what others see as dribble....He/she gets their asses handed to them all under numerous guises of righteousness but the truth and end result is the same. Am I dysfunctional? I sure am if that's how the mainstream world gets by I'll gladly take the label of dysfunctional. The difference in what I'm doing and what others are doing is that I actually see it and am fully aware when I do these things. Say what you will. As for obeying being 1+1? It's as easy as breathing for some people. If you deny this your full of shit(I've seen it first hand on multiple occasions)...If you agree with it then the logical result from that is you aren't as submissive as that person. Whether you choose it to be that way or not. Levels of submission are as much a fact as levels are in life in the everyday world.

juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 11:35:18 AM)
quote: To be true I've had it out with Men as well and your just as guilty because all I've done is mimic what a particular person has done. I find your insistence that you are the vigilante justice on this site very amusing. I kinda picture you with a cut out of Tonto besides your computer, and your desktop having an image of Silver on it.... Don't quit your day job, you suck as jury, judge and forum executor.... I doubt highly that you will ever receive an invitation to moderate the forums because your judgment stinks. You come off as a troll and a pot stirrer

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 11:49:47 AM)
quote: I doubt highly that you will ever receive an invitation to moderate the forums because your judgment stinks. Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard You wouldn't tell me I was right no matter what julia. I expect you to label me because as much as you go on about hating them you can't help but hold onto your nature. You will never rise above anything because you spend too much time giving lip service to actually change.

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 11:51:42 AM)
quote: we aren't in her skin, so how do we know? How do you know all of this won't help? Unless your judging what I have to say as invalid.[8\|]

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 11:59:18 AM)
quote: Don't quit your day job, you suck as jury, judge and forum executor You've said this on at least one other post...Try another stick.

angelikaJ -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 12:25:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DisenchantedLife (Edited Post) So, from everything I've read and heard over the years here on CM and else where. Obeying should be as simple as 1, 2, 3. Dom says do and since we are submissive, by nature or desire - we do. Its what we’re here for so it should be easy peasy. Its not. Obey to me; now means letting go of my survival method and relaxing. (the world wont fall apart just cos I’m doing it differently) Its a whole lot of things. My reflex is to shut down and insert 6 feet of space between my Dom and I. It is mentally easier than obeying. Doesn’t do me any good, doesn’t help, def isn’t my happy place and I lose all the things that full fill me when I do obey. I suppose I am lucky that he is teaching me to open again and talk. I wish obeying was as easy as it seems, I would be surprised if it was easy for everybody. Change is never easy. I bet most of us go from running our lives to submitting and allowing another to run it. To allow another to run it means sorting through our own personal junk so we can obey. What is it others find most difficult about the change? Simply the change? Sorting through the walls we put up to protect us from the difficulties of life? Learning to share our feelings/emotions? Letting go of the stress and worry of making sure things are okay in our lives? I am about 2 months in of a 24/7 relationship. I am doing much better than the first few weeks. I see more struggles a head. I still find myself frustrated and having difficulty when I am told no or when what I want is not what I am getting. But it’s a lot better than all the arguing I was doing. I doubt its going to be easy, but little steps eh? I expect this is part of the journey. Learning to let go, learning to dump the personal junk so we can be who we are. Thx Back to the original post: I am not in a 24/7 relationship. However, obedience is expected and there are struggles. He values it when I struggle and obey anyway. Often, I struggle over the small things: a mile walk every day. To the OP, I have read about some of the other stuff going on in your life via other threads. It sounds like your Dom is willing to be patient with you as you try to deal with the vastness of everything. Struggle is part of the journey for me and overcoming it, letting go is freedom and peace and success (for lack of a better term). Progress. He tells me "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." He doesn't expect perfection as he realises I am perfectly imperfect. From Leonard Cohen's Anthem: "Ring the bells that still can ring, Forget your perfect offering. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." It's not a free pass; it's reality. (for me anyway) Be patient with yourself.

juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 3:50:39 PM)
Beautiful post AJ

CaringandReal -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 3:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I'm talking about the internal things people believe and then verbalize that really reflect on our inabilities to get past their own personal fears. Declarations similar to what prop has proposed. They speak more so about handing over control and being vulnerable. Oh, Ok. I got it wrong again. I thought you were talking about those few really bad eggs who call the police and scream rape and abuse when they get angry with their dominants. The thing about personal fears, to me, is that people have them for good reasons. Sometimes you overcome them easily, sometimes it takes years, sometimes you never do. I've been very socially shy since the day my mother dropped me off at kindergarten: I sat at a table on that day and buried my head in my arms. I noticed that no other child there was acting like me and realized, even at that early age, that there was something wrong with me. After decades of working with this, I am now only situationally shy. There are certain situations that freeze me completely, and I've whittled those down to only a very few. In most ordinary interactions, though, nobody would guess I was shy unless they were very perceptive. But it took, literally, decades to get there. :( So I have a good deal of empathy for people who are struggling even if they don't know they are struggling. Me: "I have trouble with that statement because it appears to demand a level of perfection from a submissive that almost nobody can realistically achieve. But maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Are you saying that the onus is always on the submissive to perfectly obey, to never disobey and that the dominant does nothing to reinforce that behavior?" quote: My only response to this would be intent. It makes the difference. For the most part I surely do expect her to be able to do what I ask her. She's a responsible person that stands accountable for her actions..She will make mistakes, no doubt. I will be there to correct them, of course. I've never had a problem being me and it's "humorous" to watch others struggling with that for themselves. I hold up my end of the "deal" why shouldn't I expect them to do the same. I agree with you completely about intent. I've never had any difficulty being me, either. But that's been (at least with the shyness) the source of my biggest problem! ;) I do emphasize with strugglers, even if they don't know they're struggling, but when their inner confusion and insecurity causes them to lash out at other harmless people just being themselves, I start to see red. And I find it the most rankest and foulest-smelling forms of hypocricy when those who attack others at the extremely vicious level that certain people on here do, start whining and complaining about your being harsh with them. And, so far, you haven't even stooped to 1/10th of the depths to which they go to discredit and lynch some poster whose message or lifestyle they do not like. "I hold up my end of the deal, why shouldn't I expect them to do the same." Now you're sounding waay too much like the people you are mimicking, lol. "_I_ do THIS so why can't/shouldn't every other submissive do exactly like Big Important Me does?" "MY dominant is that way, so any dominant who acts differently than MY dominant is a total Incompetent!" I suppose that sounding much like another is the whole point of mimicry, but if so, you're doing it so well that I can't determine whether it is intentional or not. :p

daddysprop247 -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 3:58:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I have no negative view of "naturally submissive women"... I do not even know what that means, to be honest with you. i did not say anything about "naturally submissive women," so i am not sure what you are quoting. my statement was that you clearly have a negative view of those with "generally submissive personalities." i was very specific on purpose, so as to not get the topic muddled with petty semantic misunderstandings. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You are right about one thing, there are men that would want a woman who would submit instantaneously to them,There is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with people who have different needs than I have. There are some men that wouldn't want me for whatever reason, I am genuinely okay with that. well said, but quite confusing and contradictory to your earlier comments, on this thread and others in the past. there is "nothing wrong" with a man being attracted to a woman with a submissive personality, but what kind of man would actually WANT someone like THAT anyway? see how i'm having a difficult time putting the two together? lol quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Did you read the comments on this thread that spawned the post I made that made you "defensive"? Posts like "You aren't ready", or, " make excuses"... so ironic that you feel defensive in your response to me, which was not about you or your particular brand of submission... when in reality I am "defending" a submissive woman's right to not submit to the world. One does not have to submit to the postman, the milkman, their children's teachers, etc etc etc... in order to be submissive. It isn't necessarily appropriate to act submissively when you are advocating for people who rely on you, such as an elderly parent or a child you are correct in that it is not necessarily appropriate to "act" submissively in all situations. but for some of us it is not about acting, or a conscious choice, it is just who we are, the way we engage with the world around us, and we must learn to deal with the negativity and difficulties that can sometimes be a result of that. in supposedly defending another woman's right to submit or not in the way which is right for her, you (who knows, perhaps unconsciously) belittle and devalue a different type of submission. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania How many emails have you gotten demanding you aren't submissive because you won't webcam for someone? How many men try to convince submissive women they should do things against their best interests because they are "submissive"? How many newbies read this board and might get the impression that submissives meet men and submit after 10 minutes, and if unwilling to do so aren't naturally submissive? Shouldn't there be an alternative view other than that presented here? now this part is truly hilarious, and please i do not intend any offense by saying that but...there is an alternative presented here. in fact, the overwhelming majority of the time ONLY an alternative view is presented here. and that view is that submissive women should be strong, independent, take no crap from anyone, submit on their own terms or not at all, and above all else...are absolutely not doormats, ___ (fill in with expletive of your choice)!!!! submission is a gift, submission must be earned, a Dominant had better prove himself to be worthy and bow in gratitude when they receive a submissive's obedience. now i'm aware that you personally do not buy into all of the above (maybe just 2 or 3 points), but that is the predominant message preached here on collarme and the other popular lifestyle websites. yes, every female here may receive unsolicited mail from wankers demanding we "submit" by sending them a naked picture or meet them at the local Wal-Mart in 10 minutes. but everyone with an ounce of common sense recognizes those people as the jokes they are. that does not represent the messages expressed by articulate, passionate and respected members of the community. so, just as it's important to you that people, particularly questioning and impressionable newbies, understand that submission is not limited to having an overall submissive personality or those who are "naturally" obedient...it's important to me that people understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a submissive personality, with being naturally inclined to obey, and that you have a place of value in the world. and the Dominant men and women of the world who EXPECT obedience of those who are supposedly in service to them...yeah, they have a place too. [:)] as always i just wish the overall message could be a positive one, where all different types are embraced and accepted. we can validate the experience and journey of one person without invalidating the journey of another.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 4:13:29 PM)
FR...about struggling: like Icarys, it's somewhat hard for me to understand the concept of struggling to be oneself. of course in life we will all face many challenges, many difficulties, etc...but there should never be a struggle in being. if you have to really struggle to be, then that seems to me like you are forcing yourself to go against who you are, maybe not being true to yourself. CaringandReal, your challenges with being very shy i can relate to all too well. it caused me to only further outcast myself and feel like a total freak. but my Master had this wild idea...my shyness was not a defect to be cured, it was an endearing natural quality to be protected. so he places me in and creates environments for me where being shy was perfectly okay...where no one would find me odd, and where i would not be made to feel uncomfortable for something i could not help. and that's what i would advise for anyone struggling, not to be but because of being....to work toward creating a world for yourself where you can be you and that will be okay, even valued, even loved! [:)] if you are struggling just to be...then ask yourself, why am i running away from who i am? why am i not accepting me, and surrounding myself with folks who will do the same?

juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 4:25:25 PM)
quote: i did not say anything about "naturally submissive women," so i am not sure what you are quoting. my statement was that you clearly have a negative view of those with "generally submissive personalities." i was very specific on purpose, so as to not get the topic muddled with petty semantic misunderstandings. Okay... please let me know what a "generally submissive personality" is, because I truly do not know. If you do not want to muddy up the thread, feel free to email me a specific trait list. I am being accused of having a negative view of you, when I do not see you as anything but text. I have no idea what your personality is, or how I am prejudiced against it. In the meat world I deal with all sorts of personalities... from the quiet to the gregarious, from the depressed and anxious to the upbeat and content. I have never ran across one person I would label as a "submissive" personality... ever. quote: but for some of us it is not about acting, or a conscious choice, it is just who we are, the way we engage with the world around us, and we must learn to deal with the negativity and difficulties that can sometimes be a result of that. in supposedly defending another woman's right to submit or not in the way which is right for her, you (who knows, perhaps unconsciously) belittle and devalue a different type of submission. When I was in my 20s I went to work for a company my mom worked for. My mom's boss was constantly telling my mom I needed to be more assertive, and this was a definite drawback to my working life, and because my mom's boss was fond of her and me she ran interference for me. I just would never speak up and I let people run me over... including not saying anything when certain people lied about me. It just was not "naturally" in my nature to stand up for myself. I still avoid confrontation, but I have built up my ability to deal with it, and to realize that the valuable contributions I have to give to the world necessitate I speak up and not be hesitant to take the lead. Being a single mom helped with that, also. quote: in fact, the overwhelming majority of the time ONLY an alternative view is presented here. and that view is that submissive women should be strong, independent, take no crap from anyone, submit on their own terms or not at all, and above all else...are absolutely not doormats, ___ (fill in with expletive of your choice)!!!! submission is a gift, submission must be earned, a Dominant had better prove himself to be worthy and bow in gratitude when they receive a submissive's obedienc I do not know if it is "should", so much as maybe that is how many of us "are". There is a difference between "should" and "is". I see no problem with being the sort of person who does not take crap from anyone because I do not see the value in "taking" crap. I have had to take a lot of crap in my life, and I wish I had taken less of it. You can interject the opposite and see how many people would find it healthy for them... Here is the opposite "submissive women should be weak, dependent, take crap from everyone, submit only on other people's terms, and must be doormats.....submission isn't a gift [i halfway agree with that one], submission must be given away without regard to who it is given to, and a dominant shouldn't worry about proving he is a decent person who merits being in a relationship, and in fact should take his submissive for granted" If the above makes ya happy, or anyone else for that matter, well go you! quote: now i'm aware that you personally do not buy into all of the above (maybe just 2 or 3 points), but that is the predominant message preached here on collarme and the other popular lifestyle websites. yes, every female here may receive unsolicited mail from wankers demanding we "submit" by sending them a naked picture or meet them at the local Wal-Mart in 10 minutes. but everyone with an ounce of common sense recognizes those people as the jokes they are. that does not represent the messages expressed by articulate, passionate and respected members of the community. I went to a real live munch for the first time recently, with real live people. Most of them seemingly took all of this completely in their stride much more so than internet folk. No one attempted to dom me as soon as I arrived. They were genuinely happy to make a new acquaintance... there were a couple of invites sent my way, but no one demanded ANYTHING from me. I think the community is probably a lot more laid back about what submissive and dominant are... in fact there were a lot of switches there. quote: so, just as it's important to you that people, particularly questioning and impressionable newbies, understand that submission is not limited to having an overall submissive personality or those who are "naturally" obedient...it's important to me that people understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a submissive personality, with being naturally inclined to obey, and that you have a place of value in the world. In the context of this thread, which is from the vantage point of someone not "naturally" obedient, how is that helpful in light of the dominant presence on this thread that seems to assume that obedience should be as easy as 1 2 3 , or the sub isn't ready to be a sub? I could see why you would need to assert that view on a thread where the submissive posting it was being told she was a doormat for having a "submissive personality", but that isn't what is happening on this thread.... quote: as always i just wish the overall message could be a positive one, where all different types are embraced and accepted. we can validate the experience and journey of one person without invalidating the journey of another. I wish that were true too, unfortunately for the person that posted this thread, it wasn't the case as their particular troubles within their dynamic were not respected or validated by some members of this "community"

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 5:30:25 PM)
quote: I agree with you completely about intent. I've never had any difficulty being me, either. But that's been (at least with the shyness) the source of my biggest problem! ;) I do emphasize with strugglers, even if they don't know they're struggling, but when their inner confusion and insecurity causes them to lash out at other harmless people just being themselves, I start to see red. And I find it the most rankest and foulest-smelling forms of hypocricy when those who attack others at the extremely vicious level that certain people on here do, start whining and complaining about your being harsh with them. And, so far, you haven't even stooped to 1/10th of the depths to which they go to discredit and lynch some poster whose message or lifestyle they do not like. Thank you. For the most part I haven't but I can't say with a clear conscious that I haven't on occasion lost it a little and said some things when dealing with certain people. quote: "I hold up my end of the deal, why shouldn't I expect them to do the same." Now you're sounding waay too much like the people you are mimicking, lol. "_I_ do THIS so why can't/shouldn't every other submissive do exactly like Big Important Me does?" "MY dominant is that way, so any dominant who acts differently than MY dominant is a total Incompetent!" I suppose that sounding much like another is the whole point of mimicry, but if so, you're doing it so well that I can't determine whether it is intentional or not. :p It sounded a little like I was standing over someone with my fist clenched tight huh? :> It's not the case. I can't say that I don't expect a lot out of the people I'm with but there is room for mistakes.(Truthfully it seems so little but in this day and age it's like asking for the world itself it would seem) I really just expect a person to hold up their end of the deal by having an all around good attitude about their position and life in general. Know what I mean?

daintydimples -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 6:24:09 PM)
quote: I really just expect a person to hold up their end of the deal by having an all around good attitude about their position and life in general. Know what I mean? Yes, I do know what you mean. But er...do you? Do you have an all around good attitude about your position and life in general? Because if you do, that is not apparent from your posts. I have said this before and will say it again: good slaves are not found, they are made.

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 6:26:28 PM)
quote: good slaves are not found, they are made. Funny saying. Where would that be? Somewhere in China on an assembly line?[8\|]

daintydimples -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 7:39:41 PM)
No such luck, hun. Good slaves are made...which means molded and trained by their Master. To be successful in this relationship endeavor, you don't shop for the perfect slave, you shop for compatibility, chemistry, and great potential. If you have those three things, what you do with the relationship is up to you. Submissives of all stripes are highly motivated to please their dominant partner. You could say it is their prime directive in the relationship. If the dominant is not getting that, I would say in most instances, it's because he/she has not inspired the requisite level of trust.

NuevaVida -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 8:07:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: Cool song, actually, but it reflects your continued negativity expressed here. Whether you realize it or not, or intend it or not, you are coming across as really bitter. I'm not bitter but you will see what you want to. What I am doing is stating my beliefs and opinions about some of the bullshit that's flung on occasion. Actually I neither want nor not want to see anything in particular here. I came into this thread (and your posts in it) totally neutral. It was my observation that you come across as being bitter. I have no vested interest in whether or not you are bitter; I am simply stating what I see here. While I agree there is ample bullshit flung, and that we might agree or disagree on what that is, the way in which you present your views paints a picture, in my opinion, of someone who is bitter.

NuevaVida -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 8:14:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 FR...about struggling: like Icarys, it's somewhat hard for me to understand the concept of struggling to be oneself. of course in life we will all face many challenges, many difficulties, etc...but there should never be a struggle in being. if you have to really struggle to be, then that seems to me like you are forcing yourself to go against who you are, maybe not being true to yourself. I haven't seen anyone mention they were struggling to be. I saw the topic of struggling to submit on occasion. Sometimes being true to oneself means submitting at any cost, but the things we are required to submit to can be a struggle. You yourself have spoken about being in despair on more than one occasion, due to the nature of your relationship. To me, despair means a struggle of some sort. All sorts of areas of our lives can be a struggle from time to time, even when we're being true to ourselves. In fact, sometimes being true to ourselves requires us to struggle, especially when going against what we believe in might actually be the easier choice.

juliaoceania -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 8:52:03 PM)
quote: All sorts of areas of our lives can be a struggle from time to time, even when we're being true to ourselves. In fact, sometimes being true to ourselves requires us to struggle, especially when going against what we believe in might actually be the easier choice. Some of the biggest struggles of my life were done to stand up for my convictions and what I believe to be right. I find much truth to this

Icarys -> RE: Obeying isnt 1 +1 (9/24/2010 10:06:23 PM)
quote: You are a liar. I never got personal with you EVER. YOU chose to insult me and many others simply because our opinion differed than yours. I still maintain you are a liar. This isn't personal either I would guess lol. Not only are you full of shit..You evidently are completely blind to it.

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875