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RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 5:22:17 PM   
kdsub


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I do understand where popeye is coming from. Laws should be basic and clear in their penalties and intent and there should be as few as possible to keep the system simple, fair, and easily understood by the people that must abide by them.

As an example assault should be assault and the penalty should be the same whether for a mugging for money or an assault because of sexual orientation.

There does not need to be any more laws for or against gays in the military…just do away with existing policy and enforce laws on the books for sexual discrimination.

Butch

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(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 5:23:43 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Who were the two Dems that voted with the Reps ?


Senators Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor, both Democrats from Arkansas.

quote:


CNN Poll: Nearly 8 in 10 favor gays in the military
Posted: May 25th, 2010 10:19 AM ET

(CNN) - Most Americans say people who are openly gay should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military, according to a new national poll.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday indicates that 78 percent of the public supports allowing openly gay people to serve in the military, with one in five opposed.

"Support is widespread, even among Republicans. Nearly six in ten Republicans favor allowing openly gay individuals to serve in the military," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "There is a gender gap, with 85 percent of women and 71 percent of men favoring the change, but support remains high among both groups."



The sad fact is not only did the Republicans BLOCK the debate on the WHOLE bill, which was the Defense Appropriations Bill, which included a pay raise for service members.

The majority of Americans support repeal of DADT, it has already been declared unconstitutional, which SHOULD have been a hint to the Republicans that it is going to go away one way or another.

Republicans seem to be catering to the Christian Right who are against the repeal.

Countries that allow homosexuals to serve in the military :

Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg,
Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, Bermuda, Uruguay.

Seems our allies don't have a problem with gays in the military.

Perhaps the Republicans would like us compared to countries like China, Cuba, and North Korea to name a few.


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(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:09:55 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah....fuck all of this "law" shit....lets just make it up as we go along .



Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:18:00 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm gonna paraphrase Larry The Cable guy on this one


You need gays in the military as well as women.

What you do is this. first, you send in the straight men to start things off. Then, if they get bogged down, once every 28 days, you send in a bunch of PMSing women with guns. After the battles are over, you send in the gays to redecorate.


Problem solved.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:18:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Agreed...therefor repeal the silly policy.Simple right

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:33:10 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?


Are you serious?

First it was illegal for gays to be in the military, even if they did not admit to being gay. If they were found out it was a criminal act under the UCMJ.

Then President Clinton tried to get it repealed and instead we ended up with DADT, WHICH should have meant that the military would not do anything to a service person UNLESS they openly admitted they were gay. INSTEAD, if there was a suspicion of someone being gay or lesbian, an investigation was started and the person was called in and ASKED if they were gay, which goes against DADT, after which further investigation would be started, going all the way up to the branch commander's office who had the authority to not discharge the individual or discharge them.

More than 13500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.

It is going to take an act of congress to repeal the policy OR a court case.

FYI, federal district court Judge Virginia Phillips concurs with the GOP gay group, saying DADT is unconstitutional because it violates the rights of gays and lesbians under the First and Fifth amendments.

This means if the US Justice Department does not appeal the decision, the declaration stands and it will be repealed under a court order.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:39:15 PM   
Mistletoe


Posts: 288
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline 		I think it should not have been repealed now even though I do want it repealed. Why blame just the Republicans when Democrats also voted against this. I think it is shady to attach polices onto bills that should have their own separate vote. This practice of stuffing controversial legislation into good bills has been going on for far to long. Thankfully this bill was stopped from going through. We do not need the Dream Act to be passed.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:43:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Why not?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Mistletoe)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:57:35 PM   
Mistletoe


Posts: 288
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why not?


I generally stay away from political threads.  I have found most online political threads deteriorate to the point I no longer have any interest in the replies. So I shall leave the question you asked with answer that ...I simply do not approve of the Dream Act and will continue to work in my community to keep it from being passed.


_____________________________

"I tried self-restraint once, but I couldn't close the forth handcuff."

A closed profile = tired of stupid cmail's.

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(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 6:58:10 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?


Are you serious?

First it was illegal for gays to be in the military, even if they did not admit to being gay. If they were found out it was a criminal act under the UCMJ.

Then President Clinton tried to get it repealed and instead we ended up with DADT, WHICH should have meant that the military would not do anything to a service person UNLESS they openly admitted they were gay. INSTEAD, if there was a suspicion of someone being gay or lesbian, an investigation was started and the person was called in and ASKED if they were gay, which goes against DADT, after which further investigation would be started, going all the way up to the branch commander's office who had the authority to not discharge the individual or discharge them.

More than 13500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.

It is going to take an act of congress to repeal the policy OR a court case.

FYI, federal district court Judge Virginia Phillips concurs with the GOP gay group, saying DADT is unconstitutional because it violates the rights of gays and lesbians under the First and Fifth amendments.

This means if the US Justice Department does not appeal the decision, the declaration stands and it will be repealed under a court order.


JLF, I get it but I don't think we should be restricting what someone who just happens to be gay can choose for their career.
If someone wants to serve in the military who gives a shit if they're gay or not?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:05:46 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Sorry Mistletoe I can find nothing objectionable with the Dream Act.....and am having some difficulty imagining what it is about it that you find objectionable

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:15:21 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its easy to say you are against something, mike. Harder to explain why sometimes. Know what i mean?

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:24:59 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Yes Tazzy ..I realise some have issues with any plan that allows any illegal a "path" to citizenship.....but this law is specifically aimed at those who were brought here,admittedly illegally,as children.Who now find themselves in a no-win situation....I allways thought it was a bedrock of our legal/moral system that we do not burden children with the sins of their fathers.
Guess that doesn't apply to brown children.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:34:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I find it confusing that we give citizenship to soldiers, but not to their immediate families (meaning wives and minor children). Who else are they fighting for but family and country?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:44:10 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well correct me if I'm wrong Taz,but once the ,for arguments sake,father has been granted his citizenship does that not grease the skids (so to speak) for wife and children to be naturalized.Or is their "illegal" presence here still an insurmountable roadblock to citizenship?
Sadly I have an idea as to the answer to that question.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:46:08 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You would be right. Any child not born here would not be a natural citizen.. nor the wife. We have seen too many cases in the news where wives are being deported even though the husband is in the service.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:52:28 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Strange way to do business...considering we are a nation of immigrants.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:52:44 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah....fuck all of this "law" shit....lets just make it up as we go along .



Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?


Hey there Mr. Moderate Independent Less Government.

Doesn't repealing a law mean there is less government?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 7:58:31 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistletoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why not?


I generally stay away from political threads.  I have found most online political threads deteriorate to the point I no longer have any interest in the replies. So I shall leave the question you asked with answer that ...I simply do not approve of the Dream Act and will continue to work in my community to keep it from being passed.



Then stay away.

There is no need to tell us how you disapprove of political arguments because those things are so beneath you.

(in reply to Mistletoe)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/21/2010 8:02:26 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You and I...like it or not...must understand they, the Republicans, are representing the wishes of their supporters. So putting the blame on their shoulders is wrong. The blame lies with the American people as a whole who are still prejudice towards homosexuals...and this includes all political parties.

Butch


Is that right?

Poll: 78 percent favor repealing 'Don't ask, don't tell'


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 40
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