RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:14:24 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I don't know that college accelerates the pathway, I will read more, but from just what I seen so far, I am not aware of such a provision. and no, I would not support that provision either, we agree 100% on that one.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 101

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:16:38 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Tell me, same twist... do we arrest the kids for robbery since they rewarded from the same? Sending them back would be a punishment to children who did nothing wrong. Uprooting them from friends and schools, turning their worlds upside down. Remember, not all children come here as teenagers. Many many come as infants and toddlers and know no other way of life.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 102

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:28:47 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Sorry we're defining punishment in two very very very different manners here. I understand emotionally that it would hurt and that the loss would be tough, but that's not a punishment, but a natural consequence. It will hurt the Sally's kids to lose the house they grew up in too. It's not a punishment though.

But mnottertail has a slight shift in my perspective here.
limiting this to the children of illegals between 17 and 21 I might be swayed affording them the opportunity to enlist and have the paperwork done to give them a status that permits them enlistment if they otherwise qualify.

Tazzy I'm not uncaring about their situation I simply can't see my way to telling Mr Gomez that he has got to wait another 3 or 4 years as we process these line jumpers.
I could grant the idea of a student visa pathway maybe. I'd have to really think about how it might disadvantage those who have been obeying the law.

When I say student visa I mean one that expires when they quit school or graduate. They can apply for other forms of visas and immigration in line with the rest of the people who want in while they are in schoool.

< Message edited by Archer -- 9/22/2010 10:31:47 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 103

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:34:31 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I don't think so, Archer, because I don't think we have a brain drain here that we should be giving perks to foreign brain. Now, I might go for a internal government assistance for college (more than what we got, for citizens) but in this global economy, that isnt what solves the problem, and I want to solve a problem if we throw something at it, a perk, money, whatever, not throw money at the no-problems.......

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 104

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:36:37 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Citizenship is not a right for immigrants... its something that is granted and earned. Basically, that is what they are given, a 6 year visa to earn the right towards citizenship. Now, to be honest, i dont believe in the school pathway. They are not contributing to our society in that way, they are earning something for themselves.. an education they would not have in their native country. I have no issue with a soldier who is putting his life on the line for this country to be granted citizenship.

Having said that, i cannot, in any way immaginable, see the "rightness" in harming those who did not come here on their own. The Dream Act addresses minors. What they could have done to earn the right to stay, since they didnt commit the crime to begin with.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 105

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:39:56 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Ah I think you misunderstand me then mnottertail, I'm not saying pay for anything for them just issue them a student visa and allow them a work visa for the time they are in college so they can pay for it themselves. You know like some of us did working a job going to school full time and having no other life because we couldn't afford it. LOL

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 106

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:44:02 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Oh, I'm ok with that, shit we do that now, I went to my computer classes and math classes with alot of chinese in the day............

I thought there was some run at citizenship for student visa type college grads, hell no on that idea!!!!! They can stand in line, just like everyone else who doesn't go in the military and serve honorably (voracious GUFFAW!!!!)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 107

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 10:58:03 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

That aspect is really the part that sits poorly in my head, the academic pathway, I can't imagine telling Mr Gomez he has to wait while these folks get to go to college.

That aspect in and of itself is enough for me to say this bill died an appropriate death.

It had some things in it I would have liked to see passed, but it also contained those poison pills.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 108

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 12:14:31 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

So the issue I have to ask about is

What do you tell Jesus Gomez from Mexico who is #200 in line for a legal work visa filed for properly when you provide for these pathways to citizenship for the sons and daughters of illegal migrants.

"Sorry Mr Gomez we know you've been waiting for 2 years and you did everything right and yes we realize that had you simply migrated illegally 18 years ago your son could have been eligible. We're sorry that you obeying the rules has caused you to be put behind 2 million people who's parents broke the rules."

The people who broke the rules are there already. Those who tried to do the right thing are still waiting.
That's the American way. I find your faith in proper behaviour and doing the correct thing touching, but I don't get the impression that's ever been how your country's political system actually works.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 109

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 12:38:42 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I have said it before and I will say it again, if the Republicans dont like the fucking DREAM act, all they had to do was make a motion to have it removed. Vote on the damn thing.

As for the repeal of DADT, they should really pay attention to court cases, it has already been declared unconstitutional, and it looks like the decision is not going to be appealed, so the courts may order it ended.

And I really hate to tell those who have a problem with GLBT's in the military, they have been serving secretly in the military since the country was started, aint been a problem yet.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 110

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 12:42:28 PM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

And pretty much every other military since records began, come to that. The jewish homosexual wing commander in the Luftwaffe who had everybody up to Goring fabricate his records to keep the Gestapo off his back because he was very good at running a flying circus springs to mind, for some reason.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 111

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 12:58:44 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

having read the issue further, I am now in possession of more fact to make a better judgement, that is, for the student, if they have been here 5 years illegally because of parents, that is, not their doing the college education gives them a leg up over the containment rope.

I could live with that.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 112

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 3:10:51 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The sad fact is not only did the Republicans BLOCK the debate on the WHOLE bill, which was the Defense Appropriations Bill, which included a pay raise for service members.

The majority of Americans support repeal of DADT, it has already been declared unconstitutional, which SHOULD have been a hint to the Republicans that it is going to go away one way or another.

Republicans seem to be catering to the Christian Right who are against the repeal.

Countries that allow homosexuals to serve in the military :

Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg,
Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, Bermuda, Uruguay.

Seems our allies don't have a problem with gays in the military.

Perhaps the Republicans would like us compared to countries like China, Cuba, and North Korea to name a few.

The sad fact is Harry Reid wont allow a debate on the issue on its own merits but has to stuff it into an defense appropriations bill. And it hasnt been declared unconsitutional by the SCOTUS, and Im not so sure it will be, so it may not be going away. I doubt things have changed that much since I was in the Army, and there is no question that open homosexuality was a distraction and a morale/discipline problem.

And of course you mischaracterize DADT. Gays can serve in the military, they just cant talk discuss their homosexuality and in turn they are protected against investigation into their sexuality.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 113

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 4:25:42 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The sad fact is Harry Reid wont allow a debate on the issue on its own merits but has to stuff it into an defense appropriations bill. And it hasnt been declared unconsitutional by the SCOTUS, and Im not so sure it will be, so it may not be going away. I doubt things have changed that much since I was in the Army, and there is no question that open homosexuality was a distraction and a morale/discipline problem.

And of course you mischaracterize DADT. Gays can serve in the military, they just cant talk discuss their homosexuality and in turn they are protected against investigation into their sexuality.

Actually, a service member can be investigated under DADT if there is a suspicion of the individual being gay, it has happened. Another tactic that has been used is the screening of private emails, as in the case of Mike Almy, USAF major who did not make public his being gay, but the Air Force screened his private email and found out that way. He was discharged, and testified before a senate hearing on the situation.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 114

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/22/2010 6:40:29 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Are you serious? What was the name of this guy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And pretty much every other military since records began, come to that. The jewish homosexual wing commander in the Luftwaffe who had everybody up to Goring fabricate his records to keep the Gestapo off his back because he was very good at running a flying circus springs to mind, for some reason.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 115

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/23/2010 1:56:08 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

I'd have to look him up: give me a bit and I can find the bloke's name for you.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 116

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/23/2010 6:02:29 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Are you serious? What was the name of this guy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And pretty much every other military since records began, come to that. The jewish homosexual wing commander in the Luftwaffe who had everybody up to Goring fabricate his records to keep the Gestapo off his back because he was very good at running a flying circus springs to mind, for some reason.

Erhard Milch

Erhard Milch was born in Wilhelmshaven, Germany to Jewish father Anton Milch and Christian mother Clara Milch (whose maiden name was Rosenau, suggesting possible Jewish ancestry).

.............In 1933, Milch entered government service as the State Secretary of the newly formed Reichsluftfahrtministerium ("Reich Aviation Ministry"), answering to Hermann Göring. He was instrumental in establishing the German Air Force Luftwaffe.

In 1935, as anti-Semitism sentiments rose in Nazi Germany, Milch's Jewish ancestry became a topic of discussion. He was investigated by the Gestapo, only getting a break after Göring stated that Milch's biological father was actually another man, Karl Brauer. Milch was able to receive a German Blood Certificate to avoid further troubles from the Gestapo. Göring's famous quote "Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich" (I decide who is a Jew) came out of this incidence.

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 117

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/23/2010 6:25:09 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

Thank you. I knew I'd forgotten something...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 118

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/23/2010 6:57:49 AM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

I do not see where his homosexuality had anything to do with this investigation. Could one of you point that out for me please?

Thanks!

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 119

RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban - 9/23/2010 8:14:52 AM

Moonhead

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

That didn't emerge until later. For obvious reasons, there was more of a fuss over the Judaism than a possible itch for cock at that point.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 120

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

Page: << < prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.110