equals?

equals? (Full Version)

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murmur -> equals? (4/23/2006 10:06:03 PM)
After talking with a fews doms here and there...i've been wondering.... I wish to have people's honest answers here... I personnaly thinks that submissive and dominants should be equals, dont you think? or that, when one choose to become one beneath the other, it doesnt mean he becomes really beneath him, but only in this state because he chooses so. therefore, the equal thingy is still there. But i've been talking and asking lots of questions...and a lots of doms would answer me to my question as if : yeah, you and me are equals right now. but if you were on my collar or if you would be my sub, you would have to answer to my demands and therefore, be beneath me. but but but...what does that mean?? i believe in the yin and yan thing in a D/s relationship, the you complete me thing...not the beneath me thing...or is there differences? is there exceptions? is a slave less worthy then her master only because she surrenders her whole being to him? personnally, i dont think so! but, where is the lign here? is there a lign? Does the terms submission means inferiority? or the opposite, as in, dominance = superiority? for a lot of doms, it does seems so.... What do you think?

Real0ne -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 10:20:03 PM)
the beneath me thing is a joke or the person saying it is a total newbee! Experienced people from my expereince know better and know it is a yin yang thing as you put it and do not have a need to pump their ego by trying to lower yours. the beneath me thing is not a healthy situation imo

Jasmyn -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 10:23:27 PM)
I see it as they see it.

Jasmyn -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 10:38:49 PM)
quote: but but but...what does that mean?? i believe in the yin and yan thing in a D/s relationship, the you complete me thing...not the beneath me thing...or is there differences? is there exceptions? is a slave less worthy then her master only because she surrenders her whole being to him? personnally, i dont think so! but, where is the lign here? is there a lign? Does the terms submission means inferiority? or the opposite, as in, dominance = superiority? for a lot of doms, it does seems so.... Murmur 'you complete me' ... for me, he completes me because of his inferior status in our relationship. That is not the same thing as 'less worthy' as you are equating it too.

BitaTruble -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 10:49:55 PM)
quote: I personnaly thinks that submissive and dominants should be equals, dont you think? or that, when one choose to become one beneath the other, it doesnt mean he becomes really beneath him, but only in this state because he chooses so. therefore, the equal thingy is still there. I don't see how equality is possible in an M/s relationship. I can't even wrap my brain around the idea. Celeste

NeedToUseYou -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 10:56:13 PM)
No, a slave isn't equal. The master gains greater control, but gains responsibility for that control. And like any control it comes with it's own stressors and obligations. So, the Master does lose something as well to the slave. The slave get freedom or reduced obligations in some regards, but more responsiblity in other regards. The Master gets freedom in some regards, but less freedom in other regards. It's really a trading of unwanted obligations for a more desired set of responsibilities. So, a slave is unequal to a Master in the sense of control, but a Master has more obligations in that they are ultimately responsible for success and failure. At least that's how I see it. Hope that came out right, could be a can of worms, if it didn't [:)]

MistWalker -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:09:14 PM)
eqiality.. nope, cant see that.. whil ei understand what your trying to say get across i think anyway.. a slave/sub is not equal in footing to there Dominiet partner.. it simply wouldnt work.. they may be times when one is given an equal footing to speek freely to place there thoughts on the table for a certian situation.. but beyond that, when one submits you let yourself be taken over in many aspects.. you are at the very least deffering to anoters will and wants in your life.doign that you can not be an equal. .. i dont know i cant get the actual thoughts i wanted across in words but the basic thought is in my mind.. equals no way... hell even when im allowed to top i am not Her equal, im in that position only because she allows it..

Zensee -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:09:42 PM)
Equal doesn't mean 'the same'. We are all people here. We have different roles is all. Even those who claim to be sub-human or to be supremecists are only that in their own opinions of themselves.

ownedgirlie -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:13:46 PM)
Master and I are not equal. As a slave, my focus is my Master. I am about pleasing him. I am about serving him, and submitting to him in all things (sub = under, btw). My fulfillment comes from submitting to him. I need to submit to him. He fills that need. He provides a place for me to be who I must be. In turn, he finds fulfillment and enjoyment with my submission. The more deeply I submit, the more power he feels. The more power he exercises, the more deeply I submit. I am his pleasure. He is my need. We are yin and yang, imbalanced if separated. He inspires me to develop, grow and evolve. In turn, I inspire him to develop, grow and evolve. A great definition for symbiosis that I saw is: "The ultimate living together of two dissimilar organisms in a mutually beneficial relationship." Is that not where we are... And if that is the case, while we continue to say D/s and M/s is all about the Master or Dominant, it is ultimately about both, is it not? This does not, however, make us equals. He leads and I follow. He commands, and I obey. He makes the rules, and I follow them. He is the authority, and I subjugate to him. Silly cliche' - - It takes two to tango, but only one can lead. submitOne entry found for submit. Main Entry: sub·mit [image]http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/image] Pronunciation: s&b-'mit Function: verb Inflected Form(s): sub·mit·ted; sub·mit·ting Etymology: Middle English submitten, from Latin submittere to lower, submit, from sub- + mittere to send transitive senses 1 a : to yield to governance or authority SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something 2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another

Clothespingirl -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:15:17 PM)
Hey there! There's about a million different permutations of BDSM relationships. You need to just look for someone who wants the kind you want, and pass over the others. It might help if you put the kind of relationship you're looking for, in your profile. And don't worry about folks saying that what you want "isn't real". It's your relationship, not theirs. You go after what you want and have fun, honey!

MasterRobsalayna -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:19:13 PM)
If this girl wanted to be equal or in an equal relationship, she would not be a slave. Period. Yes, the yin and yang thing is okay, yes, W/we complement each other very much, but He is in charge. As this girl just said to Him in an email, His word is law and His law is life. Makes sense to this girl anyway.

ServiceNTucson -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:31:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jasmyn Murmur 'you complete me' ... for me, he completes me because of his inferior status in our relationship. That is not the same thing as 'less worthy' as you are equating it too. Jasmyn, I coudn't have said it better and would have needed at least twice as many words to say it half as well.

juliaoceania -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:34:29 PM)
I have read many posts that talk of M/s relationships instead of D/s relationships. These are not the same in the whole equality thing. I am anyone's equal in the fact I am a human being. I am also profoundly superior in some ways to others and profoundly inferior to others in some ways. I can't sing a note for example. No one is completely equal or unequal... We are all just different. I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it

ServiceNTucson -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Clothespingirl Hey there! There's about a million different permutations of BDSM relationships. You need to just look for someone who wants the kind you want, and pass over the others. It might help if you put the kind of relationship you're looking for, in your profile. And don't worry about folks saying that what you want "isn't real". It's your relationship, not theirs. You go after what you want and have fun, honey! I have to wholeheartedly agree with this too. Equality in an Owner/slave relationship would not possibly work for me. This doesn't mean that it's impossible, just that it's impossible FOR ME. I'd say there are a lot more than a million different permutations of BDSM relationships. I'd say there are as many as there are people IN BDSM relationships. My advice to the OP is find what works for you and to heck with what anybody else may say about it.

MasterRobsalayna -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:43:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it This girl could not do that, either. Master Rob does not see His slave as inferior, if He did, she would not be His slave to begin with! In many ways, His slave is elevated in His eyes BECAUSE of her complete and total "submission" to Him. It takes a strong person to be able to give their all to another. This girl could not imagine a Dom/Master wanting one that is not strong, unless He/She is looking for an easy mark to use and abuse: a doormat. There are those that fulfill that need for each other but this girl and her Master are not of that ilk, and this girl seems to think that most of those on CM are sincere and are looking for true devotion and some, perhaps, even love. The doormats and users are out there, but this girl is glad she is not one of them. End of rant.

ownedgirlie -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:51:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it If by inferior you mean its definition of lower degree or rank, then that is what I do, however if you mean its definition of little or less importance or value, I could not do that, either. In fact, I feel more valued and important now in my submission to him than I ever have in my life.

juliaoceania -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterRobsalayna quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it This girl could not do that, either. Master Rob does not see His slave as inferior, if He did, she would not be His slave to begin with! In many ways, His slave is elevated in His eyes BECAUSE of her complete and total "submission" to Him. It takes a strong person to be able to give their all to another. This girl could not imagine a Dom/Master wanting one that is not strong, unless He/She is looking for an easy mark to use and abuse: a doormat. There are those that fulfill that need for each other but this girl and her Master are not of that ilk, and this girl seems to think that most of those on CM are sincere and are looking for true devotion and some, perhaps, even love. The doormats and users are out there, but this girl is glad she is not one of them. End of rant. I do not for one minute think that your Master does not value you highly.. I am sure he does. You do not have to convince me of this. I did not mean to suggest that M/s relationships are in some way abusive, or that slaves are unequal to their Masters or I mean inferior. I dont know to be honest with you. In math when something is not equal it is "less than" "or more than".... it is unequal. If something is "less than" then it is inferior in my mind. It may not be inferior in your mind, or in someone else's mind, but in my mind it means "less than". I am not less than anyone. I am exchanging my power, not my humanity. You have to possess power to give it to someone else....

BitaTruble -> RE: equals? (4/23/2006 11:54:01 PM)
You are right, Julia. I did say M/s. That's the dynamic I'm in, but I should have said D/s. I guess it still doesn't make sense to me though. If it's D/s how is it equal? Someone said earlier that "equal doesn't mean the same" but that is actually exactly what it means. The same in quantity, quality, size, degree, level. Having the same rights or status. Being equal means being the same. I agree with you, being human affords you equality as a human being, but we are not talking about your species here, we are speaking of the relationship a member of that species has to another member of that same species. Relationally speaking, equality doesn't seem to fit very well into the D/s picture. Where does the dominance begin in a relationship that is equal? Celeste

juliaoceania -> RE: equals? (4/24/2006 12:00:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble You are right, Julia. I did say M/s. That's the dynamic I'm in, but I should have said D/s. I guess it still doesn't make sense to me though. If it's D/s how is it equal? Someone said earlier that "equal doesn't mean the same" but that is actually exactly what it means. The same in quantity, quality, size, degree, level. Having the same rights or status. Being equal means being the same. I agree with you, being human affords you equality as a human being, but we are not talking about your species here, we are speaking of the relationship a member of that species has to another member of that same species. Relationally speaking, equality doesn't seem to fit very well into the D/s picture. Where does the dominance begin in a relationship that is equal? Celeste I am supposed to be in bed...LOLOLOL.. but I will bite... You said yourself that it is "different", therefore how can you compare the two in that way? It is like asking which is greater, hot or cold, soft or gentle? I mean if someone told you they needed a hammer for a nail and a cloth to clean something which would be better for each job? I would not use a hammer to clean with or a cloth to hammer with... they do different things. You choose to be a slave, no one is forcing this condition on you, you are equal under the law to leave your condition as is anyone else. You choose to live the way you live, it is a choice that you have the right to make... if you were not an equal you could not be in a TPE because you would have no power to exchange. I hope what I am saying makes sense...lol....

MasterRobsalayna -> RE: equals? (4/24/2006 12:08:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: MasterRobsalayna quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it This girl could not do that, either. Master Rob does not see His slave as inferior, if He did, she would not be His slave to begin with! In many ways, His slave is elevated in His eyes BECAUSE of her complete and total "submission" to Him. It takes a strong person to be able to give their all to another. This girl could not imagine a Dom/Master wanting one that is not strong, unless He/She is looking for an easy mark to use and abuse: a doormat. There are those that fulfill that need for each other but this girl and her Master are not of that ilk, and this girl seems to think that most of those on CM are sincere and are looking for true devotion and some, perhaps, even love. The doormats and users are out there, but this girl is glad she is not one of them. End of rant. I do not for one minute think that your Master does not value you highly.. I am sure he does. You do not have to convince me of this. I did not mean to suggest that M/s relationships are in some way abusive, or that slaves are unequal to their Masters or I mean inferior. I dont know to be honest with you. In math when something is not equal it is "less than" "or more than".... it is unequal. If something is "less than" then it is inferior in my mind. It may not be inferior in your mind, or in someone else's mind, but in my mind it means "less than". I am not less than anyone. I am exchanging my power, not my humanity. You have to possess power to give it to someone else.... alayna understand the less than = inferior line of thinking. alayna guesses it's just a change in mindset that julia is searching for. Absolutely one must possess power to give it to another. Power exchange is the crux of many D/s and M/s relationships. alayna is not inferior to anyone or anything, even more so now that she is owned. This is certainly an intersting topic and the different points of view and reasonings fascinates this girl. However, she is glad to know where she stands in the eyes of her Master and of herself.

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