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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 3:00:20 PM   
sezM846


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: Manchester England
Status: offline 		Thank Y/YOu for all Y/Your answersw... this is a debate that will go on for ever.  in my experience Master is in control because i gave HIm cotrol over my life when W/we first met..  i wouldn't have it any other way now... was just interested in how other people thought.
 
sez xxxxxxxxxx

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 3:16:54 PM   
ladylexington


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		sezM846,

I agree with you. Consider reading "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor E. Frankl. The author was imprisioned in a concentration camp. He had no control over what he ate, where he lived, when he slept, but his torturers could not take everything. Despite his horrific experience, he maintained control over how he perceived meaning as he choose ways to cope with his ordeal.

When a sub chooses to submit, he or she is actually reaffirming the right to choose, and by doing so, asserting a form of control and independence.

(in reply to sezM846)
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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 4:22:57 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sezM846

Just to stir things up a bit, and a follow on from the equality post..... in a D/s relationship... who is really in control?  i know that most of Y/you will look at this and think i am mad... it's obviously the Dom..... but think about it for a sec.  The Dom is only in control of the slave or sub because they have allowed Him/Her to be.  in my relationship with Master.. He is 100% in control and i love HIm for that... but it is because i submitted to HIm in the first place and allowed Him to take control..... so again i ask the question   Who is in control ?  Hope this doesn't offend A/anyone... and if it does i apologise in advance... offence is not what i intended.
 
sez xxxxxxxxxxxx

You're always gonna find this to be a paradox when you confuse control with *power*!
 
For any D/s or M/s relationship to function in a healthy and mutually rewarding manner, the Dom or Master has control over the sub/slave.
 
As to who has power, the answer is that you BOTH have *equal* (but opposing or complimenting) power.  In other words, you each have what the other desires from a partner.  By being submissive, my girl has tremendous desirability over any vanilla and that translates to power - HER power.  And I know from experience that I have the equivalent Dom power that subs find attractive and desirable, too - MY power.
 
You're right, you submitted and allowed him to take control over you; and he did - we call it Power Exchange (PE).  But I (as a Dom) have power, too!  It's not as though your Dom didn't have a choice in your submitting to him and we both know you chose to do it for your own selfish sub needs, too!  But if my girl ever used her power to try and control me, the relationship would no longer be in balance and probably disintergrate.
 
Dom/me has control over sub!  Dom/me and sub have *equal* power.
 
Focus.

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 4:50:37 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sezM846

Thank Y/YOu for all Y/Your answersw... this is a debate that will go on for ever.  
sez xxxxxxxxxx


You ain't kidding.
 
Level

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 4:52:23 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I realised painfully through the death of someone I loved entirely, that no one is really in control of anything, when it all reallly comes down to it.

When I think about it, no one can make you love them, no one can make you feel a certain way, no one can make you entertain thoughts against your will, everything is consensual, there is no control to be had. Any sense of control we perceive is illusionary at best.

Yet at the same time, when I smell a rose, I am intoxicated by its aroma, I have partipated in the relationship by stooping down to smell it and for a brief moment that rose overwhelms me. I feel it when Im walking in nature, I feel consumed by the magnificence,  I feel so connected... it makes me disappear and join with it, I'm surrendered and nothing else exists apart from the natural beauty that is the pulse of life. Life itself has become my Master for that moment in time, and I contemplate now that even when I don't feel so connected to it, it is still my Master and it still has the control.

I feel that too with a Dominant partner, a Master...and its in this sense I feel controlled...and its in this sense I feel a slave to the relationship.

(Apologies for that, Im feeling kind etheral today) grin

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 5:12:19 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		The sub controls the boundaries of the relationship, the dom controls the activities within those boundaries. The greater the TPE the more the sub controls the boundaries and the more the dom controls the day to day activities within those boundaries. At the extreme the sub no longer has boundaries, has become a consensual slave, but given that he/she is the one who is in sole control of giving up boundaries and could reestablish them at any time the sub/slave still holds this control.

Several high powered BDSM authorities ramble on about authority, but that has never made sense to me. The dom only has the authority that the sub as transfered to them, the transfer is always sunject to being revoked at any time without notice, it is on loan. The sub owns  100% of the authority, yet BDSM relationship are not so one sided. I think power is a better way to look at it. The sub holds the latent power, the dom holds the active power, and they both more or less equal out.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 4/24/2006 5:13:03 PM >

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 5:30:18 PM   
sweetbbwsub31


Posts: 331
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline 		In my opinion, both the sub and the Dom are in control initially. There is a "courting" stage in which interests and limits are brought to the table. If the two click and the sub is collared she gives up her control and trusts in the Dom.  At this point the Dom is in control.

This is how i see it. However, each D/s relationship is different. 

(in reply to sezM846)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 5:38:53 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		In a Ds or Ms relationship, the -dynamic- is in control. Parameters are set by the individuals involved, and the capacity for the one in service to yield completely to that dynamic each and every day, as well as the capacity for the dominant to direct that service in ways that benefit the whole of the household (whether that household is 2 or 20) is what regulates the power within the relationship.

If a servant chooses to no longer serve, it -is- possible to force the physical -act- of service, at least for a while... but it is not -service- in any sense other than purely going through the motions. No one can -force- the depth of dedication that draws a servant to serve with every bit of his or her spirit, at whatever tasks are assigned, and with complete trust that the individual in charge is guiding that service for their common good.

At the same time, if a Master, Mistress, or Guide no longer wishes to maintain his or her property, he or she can choose to ignore the servant, letting him or her drift into aimless work as a petty functionary -- service that means nothing to the owner, and eventually means even less to the servant.

For Ms and Ds to work, the dynamic itself must nurture both individuals to their highest measure, shaping an owner who is dedicated to the continuous improvement of his or her servant, and shaping a servant who will yield more each day -- eventually yielding that which he or she did not even know was being held back until the release happens.

So... it is my hypothesis that it is the relationship itself, and the breadth and depth of the dynamic between the individuals that truly "controls" the relationship.

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: sezM846

Just to stir things up a bit, and a follow on from the equality post..... in a D/s relationship... who is really in control?  i know that most of Y/you will look at this and think i am mad... it's obviously the Dom..... but think about it for a sec.  The Dom is only in control of the slave or sub because they have allowed Him/Her to be.  in my relationship with Master.. He is 100% in control and i love HIm for that... but it is because i submitted to HIm in the first place and allowed Him to take control..... so again i ask the question   Who is in control ?  Hope this doesn't offend A/anyone... and if it does i apologise in advance... offence is not what i intended.
 
sez xxxxxxxxxxxx
 


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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 5:40:58 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ps, last time i checked all this was consensual; unless they repealed several amendments overnight



No public flogging from me, just a simple truth on my own personal relationship. A quote from the equality thread.

"What the law grants me is less powerful than Himself and holds no validity to the station of my life." 

The law has presented me with a gift of choice and several valuable rights. I returned them to Best Buy and got a Playstation 2 instead. ;)

Celeste 


The issue of law has very little relevance. Laws are reactive to not prescriptive of reality. Just because an amendment or law exists making something illegal does not in any way shape or form stop said thing from occuring.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 5:48:14 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

The issue of law has very little relevance. Laws are reactive to not prescriptive of reality. Just because an amendment or law exists making something illegal does not in any way shape or form stop said thing from occuring.


I could not agree with this more! Murder is illegal yet murder happens. Bank robbery is illegal, but that happens, too and yet soon as someone says slavery, the fact that slavery is illegal means it's not happening and that slaves don't exist because slavery was outlawed. Himself owns me because I can't not be owned by him. That's all there is to it.

I remember how hard I fought against it, too, much like Riot does. Slavery, bah humbug thank you very much. If you think you are a slave.. hello????? Anyone home???? Are you getting therapy yet? ::chuckles:: Ok, much time, huge amounts of crow and here I sit much to my surprise being exactly what I always touted could not exist. Go figure.

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 6:12:12 PM   
JassWolf


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		As dominant, I task her with responsibilities.

As submissive, she grants me authority.

Our choices free us both through the synergy of our interaction.

JW

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 6:36:29 PM   
cillydom


Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		It is to our own needs and passions to which we are enslaved and through them enslaved to those that can most enhance and help us express them.

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 6:38:15 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		As much as the Dom would like to think he/she is in control, they aren’t. The sub/slave has 100% control all of the time. They just don’t realize it so keep it quiet. What control you feel you have is what they give you, i.e. submission. The only way you have total control is against the will of the sub/slave. Once tied up or incapacitated the dynamic does shift. Yet the sub/slave does have 100% control unless the Dom abuses the trust.


Loki

_____________________________

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Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
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Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 7:13:03 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		This may have been said already but if so then I will simply reiterate..(am in a Duh state of mind..grin)..its about Power and Control...my understanding is..sub = power...Dom=control..simple/easy/definitive.........grin.....doubtful!.....be well..Tempting

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 7:22:44 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		LOL>>>>..... Tempting... I do so love your way with words... 

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/24/2006 11:52:01 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

As much as the Dom would like to think he/she is in control, they aren’t. The sub/slave has 100% control all of the time. They just don’t realize it so keep it quiet. What control you feel you have is what they give you, i.e. submission. The only way you have total control is against the will of the sub/slave. Once tied up or incapacitated the dynamic does shift. Yet the sub/slave does have 100% control unless the Dom abuses the trust.

Lol, you're delusional...!  Terrific conspiracy theory but....
 
The choice of a submissive to submit to (AND BE ACCEPTED BY) a particular Dom does not give her control, it acknowledges she has power!  No-one gives me control, the sub willingly enters into a D/s relationship to be controlled by me.  When you make ridiculous statements like this, you presume the Dom has no power or choice in the matter; that only the sub retains the choice to remain or leave the relationship.  What nonsense! 
 
Dunno about other D/s or M/s relationships but in mine, the real control dynamic reverberates throughout all our relationship, not just when the ropes and cuffs are brought out!  So the control dynamic hasn't shifted when she's bound, it merely got more physical.  After all, I didn't have to drug her or physically overpower her in order to get the restraints on in the first place!
 
I don't ask my sub's permission to dominate her, it's always implied as long as she remains in the relationship.  She doesn't get to pick and choose while she remains, only to choose to leave.  As for me (as her Dom), I not only get all the choices I want in our relationship, I also get to choose to leave her, too!
 
Once again, many seem to confuse control with power and get tangled in their own paradox.
 
Focus.

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 12:10:52 AM   
colosubseeking


Posts: 52
Joined: 3/2/2006
Status: offline 		i would say that both parties have equal control, under that theory that both Dom/me and sub/slave possess the ultimate trump card: either can choose to end the relationship.

< Message edited by colosubseeking -- 4/25/2006 12:25:01 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 12:25:37 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
The choice of a submissive to submit to (AND BE ACCEPTED BY) a particular Dom does not give her control, it acknowledges she has power!  No-one gives me control, the sub willingly enters into a D/s relationship to be controlled by me.  When you make ridiculous statements like this, you presume the Dom has no power or choice in the matter; that only the sub retains the choice to remain or leave the relationship.  What nonsense! 
 
Dunno about other D/s or M/s relationships but in mine, the real control dynamic reverberates throughout all our relationship, not just when the ropes and cuffs are brought out!  So the control dynamic hasn't shifted when she's bound, it merely got more physical.  After all, I didn't have to drug her or physically overpower her in order to get the restraints on in the first place!
 
I don't ask my sub's permission to dominate her, it's always implied as long as she remains in the relationship.  She doesn't get to pick and choose while she remains, only to choose to leave.  As for me (as her Dom), I not only get all the choices I want in our relationship, I also get to choose to leave her, too!
 
Once again, many seem to confuse control with power and get tangled in their own paradox.
 Focus
Amen to that!
I don't want to negate anyone's thoughts or feelings, but any sub in a relationship with me, who tries to control me or the relationship, finds himself behaving like that away from me.
 
To the OP
quote:

 in my experience Master is in control because i gave HIm cotrol over my life when W/we first met..  i wouldn't have it any other way now... was just interested in how other people thought. 
sez xxxxxxxxxx
If that thought gets you through the night, it is fine with me.   All that matters is that you are in the relationship you want, and are living as you like.   M


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a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 12:33:18 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing


For Ms and Ds to work, the dynamic itself must nurture both individuals to their highest measure, shaping an owner who is dedicated to the continuous improvement of his or her servant, and shaping a servant who will yield more each day -- eventually yielding that which he or she did not even know was being held back until the release happens.


This was fantastic!

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 4:55:52 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Well i'm not in control.. i know cos i've tested and tried to take it back

= )

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Profile   Post #: 40
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