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RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 5:10:54 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sezM846

in a D/s relationship... who is really in control?

Speaking as a slave; up until you accept a collar you have control, you control the decision as to whether or not you accept that collar. Once collared all control rests in the hands of the owner. Yes, you still control one thing, the decision to walk away from your collar. Truthfully though, in the correct circumstances, collared to that oh so elusive “One” you lose that control as well.

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(in reply to sezM846)

Post #: 41

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 5:47:07 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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On the other hand a slave NEEDS to have self control in order to be able to fulfill orders and be obedience, in order to learn and grow. If they didn't have control, then none of that would be possible.

And if the slave has NO control, then there's never any reason to punish or reward at all- since they aren't the ones in control, then trying to punish them or reward them (the purpose of which is to help them control their behavior better) would be pointless.

Slaves have lots of control, most especially over themselves. It's how that control is used and directed, who authorizes the control, which makes the difference.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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Post #: 42

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 6:15:18 AM

Knightspheonix

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Joined: 4/17/2006
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slaves do have alot of control. They say when to give up their power and to Whom. Once it is given however, it is gone.

(in reply to sezM846)

Post #: 43

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 6:23:42 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knightspheonix

slaves do have alot of control. They say when to give up their power and to Whom. Once it is given however, it is gone.

It's not "given" it's not like a toothbrush. It's not "gone" anywhere- it's still there, within you. You need to control yourself in order to obey orders, in order to be trained.

For me, you have simply transferred use of authority OVER your control, to someone else.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Knightspheonix)

Post #: 44

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 6:55:21 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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We both are in control equally. If I did not submit, then he would not be dominating anyone. If he did not dominate me, then I couldn't submit. Think if it as a dance, like the tango it takes two.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 45

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 7:13:40 AM

Kirei

Posts: 146
Joined: 1/1/2004
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The truth is that each person allows controls to be put on them. For example if at work you go on breaks/launch at a certain time each day....that is a control placed upon you by your boss. You can choose to break at another time excercising your freewill(choice) but you may loose your job for it.
The lifestyle is no different. Subs/slaves allow the control the dominant puts upon them...they can at time by choice refuse to do anything....it may end the relationship or it may not. Its the controls we choose to live by that define who we are.

koneko

(in reply to sezM846)

Post #: 46

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 7:21:32 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

On the other hand a slave NEEDS to have self control in order to be able to fulfill orders and be obedience, in order to learn and grow. If they didn't have control, then none of that would be possible.

And if the slave has NO control, then there's never any reason to punish or reward at all- since they aren't the ones in control, then trying to punish them or reward them (the purpose of which is to help them control their behavior better) would be pointless.

Slaves have lots of control, most especially over themselves. It's how that control is used and directed, who authorizes the control, which makes the difference.

This entire thread is one reason that I dislike using the terms "power" or "control".

I prefer "authority". I have recognized authority in my Ds relationships.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 4/25/2006 7:22:08 AM >

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 47

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 7:23:28 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I prefer "authority". I have recognized authority in my Ds relationships.

Down with TPE! Say Yes to UAT! (Ultimate Authority Transfer)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 48

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 7:28:26 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Down with TPE! Say Yes to UAT! (Ultimate Authority Transfer)

I actually pictured you waving pom poms just now....

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 49

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/25/2006 10:58:35 AM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
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quote:

Lol, you're delusional...! Terrific conspiracy theory but....

The choice of a submissive to submit to (AND BE ACCEPTED BY) a particular Dom does not give her control, it acknowledges she has power! No-one gives me control, the sub willingly enters into a D/s relationship to be controlled by me. When you make ridiculous statements like this, you presume the Dom has no power or choice in the matter; that only the sub retains the choice to remain or leave the relationship. What nonsense!

Dunno about other D/s or M/s relationships but in mine, the real control dynamic reverberates throughout all our relationship, not just when the ropes and cuffs are brought out! So the control dynamic hasn't shifted when she's bound, it merely got more physical. After all, I didn't have to drug her or physically overpower her in order to get the restraints on in the first place!

I don't ask my sub's permission to dominate her, it's always implied as long as she remains in the relationship. She doesn't get to pick and choose while she remains, only to choose to leave. As for me (as her Dom), I not only get all the choices I want in our relationship, I also get to choose to leave her, too!

Once again, many seem to confuse control with power and get tangled in their own paradox.

Focus.

Enough said

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(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 50

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 3:03:05 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

quote:

Lol, you're delusional...! Terrific conspiracy theory but....

The choice of a submissive to submit to (AND BE ACCEPTED BY) a particular Dom does not give her control, it acknowledges she has power! No-one gives me control, the sub willingly enters into a D/s relationship to be controlled by me. When you make ridiculous statements like this, you presume the Dom has no power or choice in the matter; that only the sub retains the choice to remain or leave the relationship. What nonsense!

Dunno about other D/s or M/s relationships but in mine, the real control dynamic reverberates throughout all our relationship, not just when the ropes and cuffs are brought out! So the control dynamic hasn't shifted when she's bound, it merely got more physical. After all, I didn't have to drug her or physically overpower her in order to get the restraints on in the first place!

I don't ask my sub's permission to dominate her, it's always implied as long as she remains in the relationship. She doesn't get to pick and choose while she remains, only to choose to leave. As for me (as her Dom), I not only get all the choices I want in our relationship, I also get to choose to leave her, too!

Once again, many seem to confuse control with power and get tangled in their own paradox.

Focus.

Enough said

Izzat your best shot? Your very argument works for Dom or sub alike in any relationship yet you continue the ridiculous notion that leaving or staying is solely the sub's perogative - thereby giving the sub 100% control?

I've been the one to end several of my D/s relationships (ie, I, the Dom, was the one who chose not to remain) yet somehow you think the sub had all the control?

The "mercy rule" is now in effect.... lol

Focus.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

Post #: 51

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 3:10:26 AM

CanadianGuy

Posts: 219
Status: offline

If you're suggesting the submissive is in control because she at some point agreed to be the submissive, then what would be a true "100% control relationship"? Sounds like only rape and unconsenting physical slavery are the only "relationship" types where the dominant or master is truly in charge. And that's just not true.

I'm in control, but not because my submissive said I could be.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 52

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 3:48:10 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I prefer "authority". I have recognized authority in my Ds relationships.

Down with TPE! Say Yes to UAT! (Ultimate Authority Transfer)

NO!

Call me proud or stubborn but just because I'm a Dom doesn't mean I expect to lounge around like some ethereal eunuch hoping a submissive will give me a break and grant me control over her for as long as she decrees....

There are *TWO* opposing but complimenting powers working in concert in any D/s dynamic - not just the one (UAT?) a sub decides to grant. Just so we're clear, why do you suppose a sub seeks out a Dom/me for this wonderous UAT; why not any ole willing vanilla? Could it be she seeks and even expects something equally unique in return; some form of exchange?

This isn't at you LA, but some of the ridiculous arguments put forward in this thread make it sound as though Dom/mes are nothing more than charity cases at the local pet shop desperately hoping some sub will take pity by choosing them to submit to! <sheesh>

I'm exceedingly underwhelmed with the control any sub has over me.... But the power she possesses is to die for! Abusing that power in the form of exerting control will change our relationship dynamic in an instant. Occasionally testing the boundaries is fine as I know it's only about seeking reassurrance. Never yet met a sub who's happy having control!

As a Dom, I'm a "hands on" type of fella who isn't put in charge by anyone; I take charge and lead in my own right! Funny how that seems to be an attractive trait to many submissives. I can take or leave this so-called "gift of submission"; you need more than that to pique my interest - but I grant you that you still need it.

Focus.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 53

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 3:52:33 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CanadianGuy

If you're suggesting the submissive is in control because she at some point agreed to be the submissive, then what would be a true "100% control relationship"? Sounds like only rape and unconsenting physical slavery are the only "relationship" types where the dominant or master is truly in charge. And that's just not true.

I'm in control, but not because my submissive said I could be.

Tah-dahhhh!

Exactly! Take a bow....

Focus.

(in reply to CanadianGuy)

Post #: 54

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 4:12:43 AM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
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That's going to depend on who is the most needy for attention and validation. Who walks first rules the nest. It varies.

But let's also recall one thing. It's an ego flattening concept-but still valid. If you live within a framework where the bottom can regain control at whim-power is illusory-no matter how much the sub appears to go along with it.

< Message edited by Reasonable -- 4/26/2006 4:59:25 AM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 55

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 5:52:20 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
There are *TWO* opposing but complimenting powers working in concert in any D/s dynamic - not just the one (UAT?) a sub decides to grant. Just so we're clear, why do you suppose a sub seeks out a Dom/me for this wonderous UAT; why not any ole willing vanilla? Could it be she seeks and even expects something equally unique in return; some form of exchange?

Dang, finally a good point against UAT.

You're right- it does make the dominant in the passive position as being the one who gets the authority that is transferred. I chafe at that idea as well.

Obviously exchange won't work as authority isn't being exchanged.

The long version would be "dynamic in which one (or more) operates under the ultimate authority of the other, who is aware and responsible for the authority."

Ultimate Authority Operation then? Or even Cooperation? Oooo what a nifty concept! A Ms relationship dynamic of cooperation!

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 56

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 6:48:38 AM

cillydom

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

It is to our own needs and passions to which we are enslaved and through them enslaved to those that can most enhance and help us express them.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 57

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 6:53:46 AM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
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Nodding agreement.

Most are slaves to thier fetishes and passions. There is a disturbing amount of objectification in this grouping......People seem to build mental constructs,and then look for others as vehicles to fill these voids as "thrill rides".

Seeing the actual personality becomes incidental to that objective. In other words,if one can "adapt" oneself to a mental image in the name of "compromise", there will be limited acceptance of that individual.

Until such time as they no longer can-then they look for another.

How sad.

(in reply to cillydom)

Post #: 58

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 7:21:27 AM

Ornerylilone

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

ok.....Who is in control? I first thought when when I started with the M/s lifestyle that it was the submissive that controlled what happens. BUT really if you have the right dom, you have NO control.

It is you, that make their role possible. Just because you submitt doesn't mean you are in control. One of the things I love about being a submissive is, is when the dom is in control and controls what can and cannot do is that I feel in control of me and my phycological well being. Without that control I feel lost and without direction. Submitting to his will and knowing my dom will control what happens brings comfort to me.

I control a lot here at home....the house, kids, etc. But when the dom takes control of me I feel more centered and able to do a much better job because of his dominance.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 59

RE: Who's really in control? - 4/26/2006 7:27:00 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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I love this control argument.

A woman, by simple obesiance;
doth ruleth her husband.

LOLOL,
Ron
(and the contrapositive can be stated as simply and eloquently.)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Ornerylilone)

Post #: 60

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