So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 5:37:41 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Such a sad sad case. No winners only losers. What would you decide?

http://www.newser.com/story/101964/tyler-clementis-parents-let-this-be-a-lesson-in-human-dignity.html

Profile

Post #: 1

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 5:43:04 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

What they did to this kid was sickening.

The emotional side of me hopes for a hate crime charge.

The logical side of me says that while those who recorded were wrong, they cannot be held responsible for the death of this student.

Either way, a life is gone simply because he had sex.

I am hoping this does result in changes on college campuses all over the country. But, again, im probably being too optimistic.

It used to be said... get through highschool and the bullying will stop... cant say that anymore.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Profile

Post #: 2

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 5:58:46 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

The incident may have pushed him over the edge but no one commits suicide just because of one incident.

This seems to happen again and again with parents who don't recognize that their child is troubled and then create a crusade to find someone else to blame.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Profile

Post #: 3

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:04:07 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

I dont think its the parents pushing this one over his suicide. As i said, the emotional side... they caused it... the logical side... he is responsible for his own actions.

A lawyer who was discussing this yesterday morning stated they had to find a pattern of hate. Something one of the students posted... on twitter i believe... made reference back in april to this kids homosexuality.

May be interesting to discover whats on the pcs' of these two.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 4

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:08:56 AM

BbcSlutKc

Posts: 60
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline

noone cares about anyone anymore, we r a greedy nation, full of lost poor souls.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Profile

Post #: 5

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:11:41 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The incident may have pushed him over the edge but no one commits suicide just because of one incident.

This seems to happen again and again with parents who don't recognize that their child is troubled and then create a crusade to find someone else to blame.

So just charge them for the invasion of privacy and leave the rest out? What sort of precedence would that set? Just questions I don't have any answers

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 6

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:20:18 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I can't imagine Rutgers not having interceded if this boy had reported his roommate as being anti-gay.
Obviously the two did not get along and this was just how he chose to get back at him.

My daughter's least liked roommate was a lesbian. She also had a different girl in the room on a daily basis and felt fine locking my daughter out. It wasn't her gender choice that was wrong, it was her lack of caring about her roommate's access. When my daughter complained repeatedly, they found her a single as it was wrong for her to be expected to work at her desk while the others were having sex. Or being expected to work through it.

I don't understand why there weren't complaints to the RAs. Or, if it was a hate crime pure and simple, why the school was not notified. However suicide is the result of a brain chemistry problem. I'm shocked that no one noticed this child was deeply depressed and did not try to intervene.

I believe there is more to this than the story tells.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Profile

Post #: 7

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:21:35 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont think its the parents pushing this one over his suicide. As i said, the emotional side... they caused it... the logical side... he is responsible for his own actions.

A lawyer who was discussing this yesterday morning stated they had to find a pattern of hate. Something one of the students posted... on twitter i believe... made reference back in april to this kids homosexuality.

May be interesting to discover whats on the pcs' of these two.

I'm not sure what site they posted it on but I understood it was a video of him with another man they secretly taped.

Which was illegal and should be prosecuted.

It was this statement that makes me wonder though:

Newser) – Tyler Clementi's parents say they hope his death will make a difference: "Regardless of legal outcomes, our hope is that our family's personal tragedy will serve as a call for compassion, empathy and human dignity," said Jane and Joe Clementi in a statement.

Suicide just doesn't happen, and there have been a number of these types of stories in recent years.

The way I read what they said is he would still be alive had it not been for that video.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/2/2010 6:37:30 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Profile

Post #: 8

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:28:58 AM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

I read Tyler's posts to a board that he wrote on and he said that his roommate was a "pretty decent guy" except for his homophobia. He had made an appt with residence housing and had talked to his RA, who took the whole matter very seriously. An investigation had been started. However, the video had already been broadcast and the roommate was trying to do it a second time, but Tyler stopped that by turning off his roommate's computer and doing a "sweep" of the dorm room for other cams and devices.

It's all just so sad. If the laws were different, a charge of involuntary manslaughter could be brought, but as they are now, the only laws that were violated were the invasion of privacy statutes.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 9

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:32:41 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

So just charge them for the invasion of privacy and leave the rest out? What sort of precedence would that set? Just questions I don't have any answers

I don't think there is any choice.

What could they be charged with?

Anything else that I can see would have to establish that this was the direct cause of his suicide.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)

Profile

Post #: 10

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 7:43:31 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

FR

This is a tragic case but suicide is a personal choice.

Nobody can say for sure what caused someone to commit suicide so you can't build a case in those circumstances. There is always the reasonable doubt that other unknown factors were at play in making this individual choose this outcome.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/2/2010 7:44:03 AM >

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 11

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 7:53:50 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

Very difficult to prove this was a hate crime. All the defense attorney has to do is ask "Would you have pulled this same prank if your roommate was having sex with a woman". They answer "yes" and it comes down to the prosecutor convincing 12 jurors that they are lying.

What should be done? Try them as adults for whatever they can convict on and have that on their record. They'll pay for the rest of their lives.

And it wasnt a video, it was a live stream. The law might not have even technically caught up with the "crime".

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 10/2/2010 7:56:16 AM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Profile

Post #: 12

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 8:27:10 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What should be done? Try them as adults for whatever they can convict on and have that on their record. They'll pay for the rest of their lives.

Ummm......well......they are adults.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Profile

Post #: 13

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 8:58:42 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What should be done? Try them as adults for whatever they can convict on and have that on their record. They'll pay for the rest of their lives.

Ummm......well......they are adults.

Are they? I dont know their ages nor the law in NJ regarding prosecuting as a juvenile vs adult. (And I doubt you did when you posted this.)

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 14

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 9:41:15 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

You would think on a site like....collarme....people would be a bit more sympathetic, towards some young adult who was homosexual (as both share similar issues with the vanilla world). The two students that did this should be charged with a crime. That in effect, created such a hostile viewpoint by a sick prank, that I dont see why adults on here, are 'ok' with the prankster's action(s). Since, to young adults, a webcame video will go straight to youtube.com. That's a no-brainer, to them. So the guy, figured everyone would know, and he wasn't ready to come out yet. Death before dishonor, is STILL, a terrible way to deal with that situation.

Making jokes of this, folks, is really low. As this could have easily been a male and female college student, having a SM session. Some young adults are very shy about showing their SM preference to the outside world. Would you treat this differently, if the student, was not gay but a submissive?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Profile

Post #: 15

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 10:10:54 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Would you treat this differently, if the student, was not gay but a submissive?

No.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to joether)

Profile

Post #: 16

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 5:43:24 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

So just charge them for the invasion of privacy and leave the rest out? What sort of precedence would that set? Just questions I don't have any answers

I don't think there is any choice.

What could they be charged with?

Anything else that I can see would have to establish that this was the direct cause of his suicide.

They committed a crime against two men, filming them having sex without their consent to be filmed. One of those two men committed suicide and the other didn't.

The crime was filming without consent. The suicide was horrible but the filmers had no way of predicting that to be the outcome.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 17

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:39:34 PM

LuneRune

Posts: 33
Joined: 8/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Very difficult to prove this was a hate crime. All the defense attorney has to do is ask "Would you have pulled this same prank if your roommate was having sex with a woman". They answer "yes" and it comes down to the prosecutor convincing 12 jurors that they are lying.

There were tweets from the perpetrator in which he 'dares' people to view the video at a certain time, and another tweet in which he says "my roommate is making out with a dude, yay."

What the lawyers will have to convince the jury of is whether or not these two individuals were playing a prank, or if they were in fact broadcasting these videos out of hatred and those tweets are pretty fairly damning as far as I'm concerned. I believe in innocent until proven guilty. But something happened in a very very short period of time that triggered this kid (who appeared to have been trying to resolve the problem) into taking his own life. Whatever that questionmark is, it was traumatic enough that this young man ended up floating in the Hudson.

I don't see this a simply an invasion of privacy. You invade privacy when you read someone's journal without permission or something along those lines. But this was much more a very public and very humiliating attack that had everything to do with his sexual orientation, and that seems to me reasonable grounds to charge them with a hate crime.

I have not heard from these two. I am sure thay have their side of the story. But there was enough damage done that I think they SHOULD be charged with a greater crime.

< Message edited by LuneRune -- 10/2/2010 6:40:35 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 18

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 6:55:00 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuneRune

quote:

Very difficult to prove this was a hate crime. All the defense attorney has to do is ask "Would you have pulled this same prank if your roommate was having sex with a woman". They answer "yes" and it comes down to the prosecutor convincing 12 jurors that they are lying.

There were tweets from the perpetrator in which he 'dares' people to view the video at a certain time, and another tweet in which he says "my roommate is making out with a dude, yay."

What the lawyers will have to convince the jury of is whether or not these two individuals were playing a prank, or if they were in fact broadcasting these videos out of hatred and those tweets are pretty fairly damning as far as I'm concerned. I believe in innocent until proven guilty. But something happened in a very very short period of time that triggered this kid (who appeared to have been trying to resolve the problem) into taking his own life. Whatever that questionmark is, it was traumatic enough that this young man ended up floating in the Hudson.

I don't see this a simply an invasion of privacy. You invade privacy when you read someone's journal without permission or something along those lines. But this was much more a very public and very humiliating attack that had everything to do with his sexual orientation, and that seems to me reasonable grounds to charge them with a hate crime.

I have not heard from these two. I am sure thay have their side of the story. But there was enough damage done that I think they SHOULD be charged with a greater crime.

What they have to convince the jury of is that they would not have "dared people" to view the video and wouldnt have been just as motivated to say "my roommate is fucking an ugly chick, yay". That is about it in NJ, afaik.

It would not come close to meeting the standard of a Federal hate crime unless they knew it would drive him to suicide or other self destructive and violent act.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to LuneRune)

Profile

Post #: 19

RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/2/2010 7:10:17 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Make them the "King" and "Queen" of the next big gay pride parade?
I wouldn't mind seeing a "home movie" of the chick getting it on with another chick.
They both probably need to do some jail time but.....

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to LuneRune)

Profile

Post #: 20