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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:26:47 PM   
Rule


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< Message edited by Rule -- 10/6/2010 5:27:46 PM >

(in reply to peacefulplace)
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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:36:57 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		There should not be a judgment for the boy who exposed him...but to our country, and world, as a whole. The crime is that an atmosphere of hate and misunderstanding still exists and it is past from generation to generation.

The young man who outed him was a victim of his parents generation and his peers. The child who took his own life is a victim of the same senseless hate and fear.

What type of civilization do we have that people would rather kill themselves then admit publicly their sexual orientation...something they have no control over?

The jury is still out...will we as a race be able to overcome our base natures and rise to an enlightened civilization where sexual orientation is not a reason for revulsion, hate, and fear?

Butch

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(in reply to DomYngBlk)
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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 5:41:11 PM   
Rule


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(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 7:06:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: peacefulplace

I sentence the offenders to the horrifying, terrible guilt and grief that this young man's parents feel about this incident. That is my verdict. There could be nothing worse.

How dare anyone invade another's privacy when a crime is not being committed? What kind of parents raised the children that did this deed is what I want to know.



The prob is that their parents DIDNT raise then. MTV, Beavis and Butthead, video games, etc raised them.

(in reply to peacefulplace)
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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/6/2010 7:14:59 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



It would not come close to meeting the standard of a Federal hate crime unless they knew it would drive him to suicide or other self destructive and violent act.

So a victim of a hate crime has to kill him/herself in order for there to be a hate crime? Of all the moronic shit you have ever posted, this has to be the most fucked-up.

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 10/6/2010 7:19:33 PM >

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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 3:48:54 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The young man who outed him was a victim of his parents generation and his peers. The child who took his own life is a victim of the same senseless hate and fear.



This is nonsense Butch. If you were right, everyone would be setting up web cams to expose Gays. The guy concerned didnt just suddenly out another student, he took a whole raft of actions beforehand. Setting up the cam, announcing it on twitter ect ect. To blame societies of the past absolves all of us for our own actions.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 4:07:40 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

You surpassed all of the idiots on this board when you said that only minorities can be bullied.


Except anyone who can read, and you are obviously not one of them, will clearly spot that isnt what I said.

quote:

I`m stunned you think minorities shouldnt have some sort of protection from bullying.







If that isnt what you meant you wouldnt have qualified your original statement that way. 3rd grade English.


You claim to be some superior intellectual, yet wouldnt undertsand English if it bit you on the arse. You seem to think these laws were introduced on the whim of some Liberal leaning politician, that was never the case, either here in the UK or there in the US. Do you not recall the black guy chained to a truck and dragged to his death, do you not read of similar attacks on minorities on a regular basis ? Do you, with whatever grade of English you are using, feel this is acceptable in a modern society ?

You told me a few days ago I was being obtuse ( I wasnt but you knew that )  yet you continue to make out you cant understand what people have written, as its such poor English. It seems to me that everything you post is based on one thing, your anti Liberal politics. Your are unable to debate with much more than snide or patronising comments. You wonder why you get short replies and little argument, you should take a look at yourself.

Hate laws are equally applied to everyone, at least here in the UK. If two gays beat me unconcious for being hetrosexual, they would be charged under UK law. The problem with your stance is that Gays rarely bully people due to their sexuality. There is no question that whatever else this young man decided suicide was his best option, once he had been publicly humiliated. Yes, he may have had previous issues. Yes, he may have thought about it before. The fact remains the web cam incident tipped the balance. He should be charged with manslaughter and a jury should decide his culpability.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 7:51:34 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The young man who outed him was a victim of his parents generation and his peers. The child who took his own life is a victim of the same senseless hate and fear.



This is nonsense Butch. If you were right, everyone would be setting up web cams to expose Gays. The guy concerned didnt just suddenly out another student, he took a whole raft of actions beforehand. Setting up the cam, announcing it on twitter ect ect. To blame societies of the past absolves all of us for our own actions.


Politesub you need to expand your thinking... the very fact that he used that method and the child took his life is a reflection of our society. If you choose to limit it to just this instance you have your head in the sand. I am not absolving anyone I am sayings the real fault lies with society as a whole. To condemn that child for his actions and ignore he was just carrying on what he was taught and sees around him would be wrong.

Butch

_____________________________

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(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 9:02:36 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The young man who outed him was a victim of his parents generation and his peers. The child who took his own life is a victim of the same senseless hate and fear.



This is nonsense Butch. If you were right, everyone would be setting up web cams to expose Gays. The guy concerned didnt just suddenly out another student, he took a whole raft of actions beforehand. Setting up the cam, announcing it on twitter ect ect. To blame societies of the past absolves all of us for our own actions.


Politesub you need to expand your thinking... the very fact that he used that method and the child took his life is a reflection of our society. If you choose to limit it to just this instance you have your head in the sand. I am not absolving anyone I am sayings the real fault lies with society as a whole. To condemn that child for his actions and ignore he was just carrying on what he was taught and sees around him would be wrong.

Butch


You clearly stated the guy who posted the video was a victim, he wasnt. He wasnt a child, like you stated, but an 18year old, smart enough to get into Uni. I havent limited anything to this instance, that is something you have decided I am doing.

Let me ask you this, how old do people have to be before taking responsibility for their own abusive actions ? 

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 9:48:44 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I agree that it is a cultural thing.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 9:51:58 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You sound like a victim too Politesub...too bitter to understand how the prejudices of the parents are often taught and repeated in the children...and yes 18 is still a child in many ways don't you think?

I do believe he is a victim of his upbringing but no more guilty than the society that produced him.

I am not absolving him by calling him a victim but he is a victim nonetheless and his guilt should be shared by us all.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 10:01:38 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

If anything, charge them with manslaughter and let a jury decide. Its clear that their actions resulted in his suicide.


There is a difference between contributing to it and causing it.



(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 10:17:16 AM   
urineme


Posts: 48
Joined: 11/4/2009
Status: offline 		I get to be judge, jury, and executioner? OK then, let the punishments fit the crime! We take the lives of all involved in perpetrating this, and by deep background searches and interviews, dig-up and document every single failing, shortcoming, faux-pas, bad decision, ebmarrassing moment, dirty little intimate secrets, and broadcast THAT to the world, along with the fact that this is being done because THEY did it to someone else, and that person committed suicide. We let THEM see how it feels, how public ridicule and loss of privace really feels. Hopefully, doing this to THEM will serve, as the french phrase it, "Por encourager les autres", "For the encouragement of others". Methinks we lost something, as a society, when we became too "Civilised" for public punishment.

Judgmentally yours,

William

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 10:31:53 AM   
Rule


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quote:

John 8:1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”

(in reply to urineme)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 10:54:11 AM   
urineme


Posts: 48
Joined: 11/4/2009
Status: offline 		Nice one, rule, Howsoever,.... THEY condemned HIM by judjing his behavior to be subject to exposure, therefore, by extrapolation, they are subject to the same judgement and exposure. It IS implicit, in your scriptural quote, that those WHO judge make themselves subject to the same judgement for the same crimes. Another tradition has a twist on things that goes "An it harm none, do as ye will", and the flipside of which is the threefold rule, a variant on the karmic "What comes around, GOES around". THEY harmed, so let them be subject to the SAME harm.

William

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 11:02:52 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Your point of view is not Christian. Revenge is not Christian.

(in reply to urineme)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 11:06:37 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I really don't think the two students can be charge with anything more than invasion of privacy.  From what I'm reading, there isn't a pattern of bullying, as has been used in some cases in the past.  When that's been used in other cases, the aggressors were targeting the victim with comments, emails, etc by direct communication.  The difference is in the broadcast.  The result of that broadcast is what caused the emotional distress. 

Pinning the actual death on the two people in the case is going to be darn near impossible.  Not enough time had passed between the broadcast and the suicide to prove that Tyler deemed his life unlivable from those who had seen the content.  Please understand what I'm saying here.  The guy probably felt that he was exposed, would now be facing attacks, that his life was ruined, etc.  The question is, was it really?  Did he start receiving death treats, anti homosexual messages, or had anyone physically harmed him as a direct result of his sexual preference being put up for exposure?  What he thought could happen to him is more likely what pushed him to suicide.  By legal standards, I'm not sure that is quite enough.


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(in reply to Rule)
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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 11:16:10 AM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		And I'm not sure it even qualifies as an invasion of privacy. Leaving your computer on, on your own desk, with the webcam going in your own room is not an invasion of privacy. He had every legal right to have his computer on being as it was his room too. Had he gone to the school and complained that Tyler was barring him from use of his own room by having sex in it on every possible occasion, there could have been a very different outcome. If in fact he did and they chose to do nothing, then the idea of streaming the webcam would have seemed to be simple justice. They could not have known that he would have suicided.

And now it's come out that the school knew about the homophobia and still chose to do nothing? Perhaps if the school had been more proactive, he would have been given suggestions to help the situation.

I do expect the school will expel the roommate though. I'm sure his actions are against the school handbook which he had to sign agreeing to abide by the school's morality and ethics clauses.


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RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 11:19:49 AM   
urineme


Posts: 48
Joined: 11/4/2009
Status: offline 		Rule, old boy, I never, in any part of my post, CLAIMED to be christian, so what has my being "Unchristian" to do with anything? If that is your only criterion for evaluating life, yours is a narrow world indeed. You are obviously for an admonishment and nothing more, whereas I am for making an example of the perpetrators. Not for killing him, that was his own decision, and yes, I've lost friends to suicide, so I understand that all too well. I am wont to make a public example of what it feels like to have one's presumptions of privacy stripped-away maliciously, to have to go about in the world knowing that people you didn't want to know certain things now are all-too-aware thereof.

William

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: So if you have to be the judge, what is the verdict? - 10/7/2010 11:52:01 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You sound like a victim too Politesub...too bitter to understand how the prejudices of the parents are often taught and repeated in the children...and yes 18 is still a child in many ways don't you think?

I do believe he is a victim of his upbringing but no more guilty than the society that produced him.

I am not absolving him by calling him a victim but he is a victim nonetheless and his guilt should be shared by us all.

Butch


Butch, call me all the names you like, it doesnt alter the fact you are spewing out garbage. Next you will be telling me anyone who ever killed a black man in the south wasnt guilty, since his dad was in the clan. If everyone follows your absurd line of thinking, we will still be in the same situation in 100 years time. To a degree we are all a product of society, and if we dont correct things we see as wrong, they wont ever change, even in your little world.

Again, the guy who posted the video was 18, not a child and not stupid. He knew what he was doing and should be prepared to take whatever the justice department throw at him. No doubt he could use your posts in his defence.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 60
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